Ryanair jumpseating
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LNIDA
I apologize for calling your opinion dumb, but I respectfully disagree that we can't use the crew security when jumpseating. I am going through crew security every week at a major airport in UK and never hide the fact I am jumpseating. Never been a problem. Actually I used the pax security at same airport once, and was not_so_politely refered to crew security. Tell me again I am a commiting a disciplinary offence !! Unless of course security staff is talking through their ass...
I am sorry to say that's exactly what we are talking about, and exactly what I am doing each week to maximise my time at home with my 5 month old son. Considering I am away more than I am home every hour is valuable. What possibly make me so dangerous on airside when I am not on duty?
Many of the opinions here come from folks that either never have had to, or forgotten how it is, to commute. We are not doing it for the fun of it and anything that can facilitate the process make it a little less painful. Suggesting I should change job or country of residency, is a very naive thing, border line offensive, to say.
I understand the Ryanair way of doing jumpseating is dodgy and avoids airport taxes. But sometimes the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy is quite appropriate. Unless of course you are out to shaft your colleauges in other airlines. It's not like we are stealing your job.
Yes, more or less so.
What we are talking about is people who don't have a ticket of any sort and who are not on duty, putting on a uniform and walking through a crew channel using (actually abusing the terms of the their ID) to pretend to be part of an operating crew to beg a lift home, again i understand the why, but that doesn't make it right or lawful, put simply if you are not on duty (flying/positioning at the behest of your employer) or in possession of a valid boarding card then you should not be airside period, it is a restricted area.
Many of the opinions here come from folks that either never have had to, or forgotten how it is, to commute. We are not doing it for the fun of it and anything that can facilitate the process make it a little less painful. Suggesting I should change job or country of residency, is a very naive thing, border line offensive, to say.
I understand the Ryanair way of doing jumpseating is dodgy and avoids airport taxes. But sometimes the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy is quite appropriate. Unless of course you are out to shaft your colleauges in other airlines. It's not like we are stealing your job.
If this is Ryanair we are talking about, what happens at say STN when you've flown in from BUD and you are heading for DUB? are you in uniform? do you go to the FR crew room and then walk out to the aircraft
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Forgetting the principles of all working together as " airline employees, airport staff etc etc" most airport staff don't like crew, they regard them as overpaid protected species.. however, talking specifics, if you travel on an ID ticket you are PAX, not crew. At LGW for instance when you go through normal security your picture is snatched and this is also available at the gate if they scan your passport again. It was a fact some of our off duty crew came through LGW using the crew channel, were denied boarding at the bridge by BA Staff, security was called and their passes were confiscated. They checked back through as normal pax but it took over 2 months to get the passes back. It was found in the investigation the person whom took the passes should have issued a warning to the company first and did not have the right to immediately seize the pass, but is did not alter the fact the 3 crew members could not fly for 2 months while the process was completed.
And Amsterdam? are you kidding! it's practically a strip search even if you are operating! when you go into the lanes with a boarding card you are immediately funnelled with the other pax..
On the other hand at Malpensa last week they didn't even want to see our passports as we were in uniform! the playing fields are far from level, however rules are rules..
And Amsterdam? are you kidding! it's practically a strip search even if you are operating! when you go into the lanes with a boarding card you are immediately funnelled with the other pax..
On the other hand at Malpensa last week they didn't even want to see our passports as we were in uniform! the playing fields are far from level, however rules are rules..
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172 Driver
I have every sympathy for your situation and the need/desire to be at home with family, this industry is littered with broken families that simply can't cope with the challenges of working away.
In my company for me to be on an aircraft legally i need to be either part of the operating crew i.e. on the roster and its duty including the pay to go with it or its an ID ticket of which we have 3 types
1. S1 this is a firm ID ticket issued by the company for the purpose of positioning from one place to another and passenger security will normally be used, a must at LGW
2. S2 this is a sub load ticket for the crew member to self position on the net work for commuting, not on duty and done by text to an automated system with a response and booking reference texted back in around 8 sec, again pax channel should be used and any jump seat maybe used except cockpit in UK airspace
3 ID leisure ticket issued by online booking system with a small cost around €15 - €20 again sub load, crew seat as per S2 above
In all cases we can pre board whether in uniform or not subject to agreement with cabin manager, but normal protocol is to disembark last after fare paying passengers
172 from what you and others have described (and i've observed) some are clearly pushing it and i think you'll find that the principle of being airside applies only on duty or with a valid ticket, further in some cases immigration rules are being violated when transiting to/from non Schengen countries, as was stated by Avenger pilots risk confiscation of airside ID's and in some airlines no flying means no pay
No one want to make this job/life balance anymore difficult than it is but i feel that if pilots are a party to 'don't ask, don't tell' it will bite them on the arse sooner or later in much the way that 'creative' tax arrangements have done for people who thought that paying some tax and social payment in Ireland
would be ok with the local tax office in another country, you/we are been used to cut some airlines costs in areas like positioning, but we take all the risk
In my company for me to be on an aircraft legally i need to be either part of the operating crew i.e. on the roster and its duty including the pay to go with it or its an ID ticket of which we have 3 types
1. S1 this is a firm ID ticket issued by the company for the purpose of positioning from one place to another and passenger security will normally be used, a must at LGW
2. S2 this is a sub load ticket for the crew member to self position on the net work for commuting, not on duty and done by text to an automated system with a response and booking reference texted back in around 8 sec, again pax channel should be used and any jump seat maybe used except cockpit in UK airspace
3 ID leisure ticket issued by online booking system with a small cost around €15 - €20 again sub load, crew seat as per S2 above
In all cases we can pre board whether in uniform or not subject to agreement with cabin manager, but normal protocol is to disembark last after fare paying passengers
172 from what you and others have described (and i've observed) some are clearly pushing it and i think you'll find that the principle of being airside applies only on duty or with a valid ticket, further in some cases immigration rules are being violated when transiting to/from non Schengen countries, as was stated by Avenger pilots risk confiscation of airside ID's and in some airlines no flying means no pay
No one want to make this job/life balance anymore difficult than it is but i feel that if pilots are a party to 'don't ask, don't tell' it will bite them on the arse sooner or later in much the way that 'creative' tax arrangements have done for people who thought that paying some tax and social payment in Ireland
would be ok with the local tax office in another country, you/we are been used to cut some airlines costs in areas like positioning, but we take all the risk
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LNIDA
Thanks for a well balanced post. If a system like yours was in place here I would be very happy. I don't travel in uniform to jump the line, just because I have to.
As for fatigue/tiredness, my opinion is there are so many factors in each person's life affecting your readiness to fly an aircraft that we have to leave that responsibility to each individual. Sometimes I land less than 12 hours, assuming that's your legal minimum rest, before next report time. Yet I am more rested than my colleague who lives locally but had to spend the night taking care of a poorly baby.
Regarding immigration I understand there are rules in place. But considering the two biggest bases lie outside Schengen and many commutes go via them, sometimes with short connections, going from plane to plane without passing immigration and back through security may be the difference between another day spent at home or not. You can say it's irresponsible/reckless, but as close to everyone as possible that I know of do it for simplicity. If there was enforcement in place and people actually lost IDs I am sure it would change. It's a risk you take.
As for fatigue/tiredness, my opinion is there are so many factors in each person's life affecting your readiness to fly an aircraft that we have to leave that responsibility to each individual. Sometimes I land less than 12 hours, assuming that's your legal minimum rest, before next report time. Yet I am more rested than my colleague who lives locally but had to spend the night taking care of a poorly baby.
Regarding immigration I understand there are rules in place. But considering the two biggest bases lie outside Schengen and many commutes go via them, sometimes with short connections, going from plane to plane without passing immigration and back through security may be the difference between another day spent at home or not. You can say it's irresponsible/reckless, but as close to everyone as possible that I know of do it for simplicity. If there was enforcement in place and people actually lost IDs I am sure it would change. It's a risk you take.
