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Returning to flying?

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Returning to flying?

Old 29th Apr 2014, 14:08
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returnofaking, good luck with the sim
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Old 29th Apr 2014, 14:23
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Nice to hear that easy want you back subject to the sim. Now if they also give you your old contract..

I wonder why those who advocate to leave aviation behind are themselves still flying…
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Old 29th Apr 2014, 16:29
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I wonder why those who advocate to leave aviation behind are themselves still flying…
Personally glad I left, but I have some friends indeed, they complain and do not quit...
I have some clues to your question as I asked them the same question :

1) it asks courage. Leaving addiction, it is hard. Those people will die unhappy, alone and without kids most of the time. (happiness is not = job)
Flying is the part of addiction, I guess we all know that.

2) they do not know what to do. When you're pilot, without a back up career, you do not know anything else good in this society. You just know to perform ILS and some stick handling. In a another company, you would be good to do photocopies only and make some calls maybe. But compared to an engineer, searchers, pilots are have low knowledges... we are responsible of an a/c but we do not conduct any project from a begining to the end. We do not really manage a team like engineers do for exemple.

3) some tell themselves "I spent huge money, I can not quit". Which is stupid...either you quit or not, the amount of money spent remain the same.
There is a technical word in Economy lesson I followed, but I do not remember. I will edit my message when I find it.
It is the same thing, when you throw away some food and some people tell you that some africans are starving blablabla...
You eat or throw away food, it is economically the same...anyway.

4) Some just stay for the money. Their plan is to buy some apartments and rent them... Flying is not a passion anymore for them, just a job that feeds you.

5) Some try to leave, they will do it as soon as they can and have the opportunity. Personnally, I had been thinking about 2 years before doing the jump. Leaving is not easy, you need to prepare some stuff (another course, saving money in case, wait the end of your contract and so on...).
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Old 29th Apr 2014, 16:38
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There is no decision to make.

Take the job with the hedge fund and make lots of money.

If you miss flying, hire a Cessna at the weekend.
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Old 29th Apr 2014, 19:32
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It's called , but don't quote me ....opportunity cost in terms of economics
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Old 29th Apr 2014, 20:11
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Left flying in my 30's after two years on the 737 back in '06 and didn't regret in until fairly recently, but life is too short, and since leaving I have changed and matured I feel in a way that would have not been possible with flying.

Overall it was probably for the best although my situation was a lot different than yours (I basically stormed out after a volatile build up over a few months) and in the end only you can answer the question of course.

Good luck either way.

PS. I didn't give up PPrune though
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Old 29th Apr 2014, 20:22
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You're here on this planet once. Why would you want to spend it working for a hedge fund in an office pouring over facts and figures about whether to invest in a company or not? Booooooring. No wonder it has to pay a decent salary.

Yes it may ooze money but money is not the be all and end all of life. You work to live not the other way round. As I say you're here once, you may as well enjoy what you're doing even if it isn't hedge fund wages.

An EZY Captain earns well over £100k a year. If you can't be happy on that kind of wage you need to have a chat with yourself.

I'm an EZY Captain, been here a long time and enjoy it. I may not be on hedge fund wages but I put food on the table, I heat my house and I pretty much want for nothing. I have a good life.

I guess your glass is either half full or half empty. If you enjoy flying then get back into it. Hope to meet you around the network.
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Old 29th Apr 2014, 21:11
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Greenlights, thanks for your reply and well done to you! I agree with you but maybe I should rephrase my question.

If the job at the hedgefund is so fantastic as so many say it is, then why don't they apply for something similar? Why don't they 'rent a Cessna' if they are so tired of flying for an airline? What do they know about hedgefunds?

Maybe because it is not so straight forward? Maybe they are here just to moan?

The main worry of our friend is that this industry has changed so much. So let's concentrate on that. So far I can only see a 'problem' with the watered down contract he may be offered. But the job itself is still the same. Once back in the right seat I'd dare say for a guy with his experience the situation is a bit better than when he left!

Last edited by PENKO; 29th Apr 2014 at 21:36.
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Old 29th Apr 2014, 22:14
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I had already amended my message because I do not know your friend's exact situation.
Still, it's not exactly true what you write.
easyJet hires a lot of experienced pilots as well as cadets.
Some very experienced indeed.
easyJet even hires from within the company.

And when has it ever been easy to move company? Seniority lists prevent any job hopping in most airlines. But at least in easyJet you can join the command list within months after signing a permanent contract! I have yet to see evidence that the everyday reality is much worse now than in 2008. For experienced jet drivers with the relevant type rating that is.

And by the way, this whole cadet business is nothing new. Airlines have different needs at different times. BA was recruiting loads of cadets in the past. KLM is ONLY recruiting cadets at the moment. But Emirates is screaming, begging for experienced guys like easyJet pilots. easyJet is now at a mature stage where they can handle larger quantities of cadets, but that might change in a blink of an eye.
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Old 30th Apr 2014, 06:15
  #30 (permalink)  
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Two pages and no one has mentioned the elephant in the room

TYPE RATING!! Long since expired and under EASA rules, whole new
one now required, will easy pay for that, not likely

Echo nearly everyone else, stay away from ANY airline, this
industry is

(Maybe not Aviation per se, but certainly the Pilot profession is )
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Old 30th Apr 2014, 15:35
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TYPE RATING!! Long since expired and under EASA rules, whole new
one now required, will easy pay for that, not likely
Easy are very good at looking after their own when it comes to training. I expect they will.
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Old 30th Apr 2014, 18:30
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The type rating expires 5 years after the expiry date of the last one so the OP may still have some time left...
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Old 30th Apr 2014, 18:38
  #33 (permalink)  
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Am I behind the rapid changes here but, if your IR has expired by more than five years, aren't you apt to be required to rewrite all the ground subjects? The only dispensation normally afforded would be in the case where someone had been actively using the IR privileges on a foreign licence?
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Old 30th Apr 2014, 19:08
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cavortingcheetah - no.

From CAP804:

"If the IR(A) has not been revalidated or renewed within the preceding 7 years, the holder will be required to pass again the IR theoretical knowledge examination and skill test."
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Old 30th Apr 2014, 22:38
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Greenlights
some tell themselves "I spent huge money, I can not quit". Which is stupid...either you quit or not, the amount of money spent remain the same.
There is a technical word in Economy lesson I followed, but I do not remember. I will edit my message when I find it.
The Sunk Cost Fallacy?

Sunk costs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

returnofaking - Good luck!
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Old 1st May 2014, 04:43
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Have you considered aviation outside of airlines? Aeromed, corporate and survey don't use cadets, they value real experience, the flying is great and the pay can be pretty good too. (Well it is down in this neck of the woods).

If you do go with the hedge fund, buy a Chippie.

Good luck, whichever way you go.
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Old 1st May 2014, 06:14
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The industry you left is very different to the industry now. It still looks very attractive from the outside looking in but the reality, especially for people closer to the beginning rather than the end of their flying careers is very, very different. Human nature is also to look to the past through rose tinted glasses. If you make a decision based on those combined factors I am fairly sure you will subsequently be very disappointed.

It is your call and I genuinely wish you well whichever way you go. But if I had your options I would be putting on my business suit and joining the local flying club.

Good luck, and serious respect for the sacrifices you have already made in your personal life.
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Old 1st May 2014, 06:42
  #38 (permalink)  
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One weekend not long past at Old Buckenham in Norfolk in flew a Bonanza. This aircraft was in wondrous immaculate condition, a really beautiful and well cared for specimen. The aeroplane had tip tanks, radar and was owned and flown by a man and his woman who obviously really cared for the machine. This aircraft stimulated lust and longing in my breast for with this machine any professional pilot would be happy, either flying IFR on airways, shooting an ILS at 140kts to a 1NM final or just bumbling around the continent with a range to get you down to Rome on one tank fill. The snag is though that you'd need a bob or two to run it. So if I were really you, I'd set my flying sights on an end game like that and go and earn the money to enable you to do what all we pilots really like doing best which is to fly to our maximum professional capabilities, all for fun and damn the masses to perdition.
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Old 1st May 2014, 15:08
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Contrary to what has been said, the job has changed considerably over the last few years.

Airmanship is now a dirty word and you are expected to adhere unquestioningly to company SOP and doctrine. The management and training dept attitudes are increasingly dogmatic and less pragmatic, and the newer/younger the manager or trainer, the worse it usually is.

Work rate has gone up massively - many pilots now fly to the legal maximums month in, month out, with no let up.

Attitudes to pilots have become bad. Some companies strive to make conditions as bad as they can, and even seem to deliberately break up families simply because they can over issues like basing. Threats and bullying are rife in many companies now, but all off paper so it is impossible to fight back legally.They like to have their spies, too, so you have to watch what you say, even in the cockpit.

Pay is a pittance of what it used to be, so don't expect a decent lifestyle while repaying the costs of the retraining required and paying for your current mortgage and digs in whatever base you end up.

Forget a social life - you'll be working to often and too hard, probably away from home, to have any time with friends or family. Even within the company, socialising is not what it used to be - few short haul airlines have night stops anymore.

Stick to the real money job which gives you so much more benefit and perhaps take up part time flying instruction, but don't go back to the airlines - the accountants and overly desperate wannabes have screwed it right up as a profession.
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Old 1st May 2014, 17:37
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Hi Returnofaking,

Don't know if this will affect any decision: Fund management: Will invest for food | The Economist
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