BA Direct Entry Pilot.
+1 to the above.
Those assessing the simulator work take into account your previous types, experience, etc. They're not looking for you to be an "ace" handling an unfamiliar type (nice if you can, though TBH don't think I've ever aced the handling on any type..
.) they will for sure be looking at how well you interact with your colleague on the day.....
Those assessing the simulator work take into account your previous types, experience, etc. They're not looking for you to be an "ace" handling an unfamiliar type (nice if you can, though TBH don't think I've ever aced the handling on any type..
.) they will for sure be looking at how well you interact with your colleague on the day.....
Last edited by wiggy; 19th Dec 2014 at 14:15.
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Re: What kind of notech skills.
TBH just be yourself.
If you have them (and there's is a very long 'official' list of desirable vs undesirable ones - eg through personal style creates atmosphere for open communication) then welcome aboard.
Im in the rh seat and its moderately rare to fly with the same person twice - all BA pilots lack the 'small base' luxury of building relationships.
As such my point is, put bluntly, I'd rather spend my 'one off' flight/tour with someone who naturally has good notechs rather than someone who acted in the sim and then defaulted to true 'less desirable' self. Trust me, there are a handful of faces who are already in and got in long before the importance of notechs was set down in company policy and truly became part of the corporate culture.
I understand this is curt and not helpful but I think if youre honest you'd probably agree. BA is huge, yet it's unusual to fly with someone unpleasant - there's a reason for this.
Just succinctly verbalise your thoughts, make time for the other person to advocate their position, do a 'mini review' here and there, when the other person makes an error point it out gently at first and in a way which keeps them on-side, use humour appropriately - there's nothing wrong with levity. How you do all these and other positive attributes, well that's notechs.
TBH just be yourself.
If you have them (and there's is a very long 'official' list of desirable vs undesirable ones - eg through personal style creates atmosphere for open communication) then welcome aboard.
Im in the rh seat and its moderately rare to fly with the same person twice - all BA pilots lack the 'small base' luxury of building relationships.
As such my point is, put bluntly, I'd rather spend my 'one off' flight/tour with someone who naturally has good notechs rather than someone who acted in the sim and then defaulted to true 'less desirable' self. Trust me, there are a handful of faces who are already in and got in long before the importance of notechs was set down in company policy and truly became part of the corporate culture.
I understand this is curt and not helpful but I think if youre honest you'd probably agree. BA is huge, yet it's unusual to fly with someone unpleasant - there's a reason for this.
Just succinctly verbalise your thoughts, make time for the other person to advocate their position, do a 'mini review' here and there, when the other person makes an error point it out gently at first and in a way which keeps them on-side, use humour appropriately - there's nothing wrong with levity. How you do all these and other positive attributes, well that's notechs.
flydog
FWIW a quick Google revealed this weighty paper:
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/iprc/uploads/f...oof%20copy.pdf
No need to read it all, AFAIK most airlines teach this now, but if you are completely unfamiliar with the term NOTECH (perhaps more relevant to someone looking at this thread as an prospective FPPer) then the sections from "Structure of the NOTECHS" and most especially the tables describing the various categories gives you a bit of a clue.
That said I think Chief Brody summed it up rather well - it's a big airline ( like many), you rarely fly with the same person more than a handful of times in your career, so you need to be able to establish a working relationship quickly, one that's going to see you through the trip/tour. If you're carp at working with folks then knowing the NOTECHs inside out won't help, but it might be nice to know one or two of the concepts (and key words) if you're pitching up for interview/sim assessment.
FWIW a quick Google revealed this weighty paper:
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/iprc/uploads/f...oof%20copy.pdf
No need to read it all, AFAIK most airlines teach this now, but if you are completely unfamiliar with the term NOTECH (perhaps more relevant to someone looking at this thread as an prospective FPPer) then the sections from "Structure of the NOTECHS" and most especially the tables describing the various categories gives you a bit of a clue.
That said I think Chief Brody summed it up rather well - it's a big airline ( like many), you rarely fly with the same person more than a handful of times in your career, so you need to be able to establish a working relationship quickly, one that's going to see you through the trip/tour. If you're carp at working with folks then knowing the NOTECHs inside out won't help, but it might be nice to know one or two of the concepts (and key words) if you're pitching up for interview/sim assessment.
Last edited by wiggy; 22nd Dec 2014 at 06:33.
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One thing that puzzled me a few years ago, when I did my sim check, was whether I reacted correctly to the trainer trying to put me off my nav. During the complex departure he started asking questions such as "speedbird 1, requesting time estimate for MID". Told hime to standby, so he asked again, and told him to standby again (we were just about to intercept a radial). Once established on the radial, I gave him the time estimate.
In real life, that's what I would do. But since I didn't get through and otherwise flew to IR standards, I always wondered whether he thought I lacked spare capacity...
In real life, that's what I would do. But since I didn't get through and otherwise flew to IR standards, I always wondered whether he thought I lacked spare capacity...
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I did much the same as you in the sim. I think that your response was 100% the right one. I think the BA sim is about the big picture of you as a pilot with an emphasis on NOTECHS. I failed at the sim stage a few years ago but got in this time.
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Permafrost, sorry to hear you didn't get through the sim.
Perhaps you could have used PM to figure out the time? I think that was the capacity/CRM test, although there's nothing unsafe about what you did, there can be times when you can take workload management a bit overboard. Keeping ATC waiting on an estimate for longer than 30 seconds isn't necessarily a NOTECHs skill. Though not being rushed in to a non precision approach due to smoke in the cabin maybe.
Manually flying a SID during flap retraction while entering cloud in freezing conditions and updating the MCP/FCU etc...would you tell ATC to standby as a matter of routine if they gave you a frequency change plus heading change (for example) or asked you if you could make FLxxx by point X during this high workload situation? We're talking London TMA here also. (I know that the autopilot would go in if it got very busy). It's not too disimilar to a normal day operating out of Heathrow. Add to that some CB's in the TMA and traffic in the holds, and the 767 autopilots appalling handling of the flap retraction at high weights (hence manually flying...I'm aware the 747 is used in the sim test) Good teamwork makes it quite manageable.
Good luck to all with applications. Notechs is definitely the key but I think demonstration of them rather then being overly overly cautious maybe the idea. I could be wrong however and might have slipped through the net when I had my sim test, but the trainer seemed to think me and sim partner handled situations quite well. We did get the estimate question and used the flight plan they gave us (cumulative time plus airborne time) as an estimate.
Perhaps you could have used PM to figure out the time? I think that was the capacity/CRM test, although there's nothing unsafe about what you did, there can be times when you can take workload management a bit overboard. Keeping ATC waiting on an estimate for longer than 30 seconds isn't necessarily a NOTECHs skill. Though not being rushed in to a non precision approach due to smoke in the cabin maybe.
Manually flying a SID during flap retraction while entering cloud in freezing conditions and updating the MCP/FCU etc...would you tell ATC to standby as a matter of routine if they gave you a frequency change plus heading change (for example) or asked you if you could make FLxxx by point X during this high workload situation? We're talking London TMA here also. (I know that the autopilot would go in if it got very busy). It's not too disimilar to a normal day operating out of Heathrow. Add to that some CB's in the TMA and traffic in the holds, and the 767 autopilots appalling handling of the flap retraction at high weights (hence manually flying...I'm aware the 747 is used in the sim test) Good teamwork makes it quite manageable.
Good luck to all with applications. Notechs is definitely the key but I think demonstration of them rather then being overly overly cautious maybe the idea. I could be wrong however and might have slipped through the net when I had my sim test, but the trainer seemed to think me and sim partner handled situations quite well. We did get the estimate question and used the flight plan they gave us (cumulative time plus airborne time) as an estimate.
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The key is that you are a crew in the sim. You are unlikely to pass while your buddy fails - you tend to pass or fail together, so act as a crew. It is pointless being the best single pilot operator of the 747 sim BA have ever seen if you let your sim buddy do something stupid and say nothing - it merely proves you are not a team player. It is far better to be told to stop helping in the sim than be deemed to not not be a team player.
Be yourself, there are plenty of places available so the only person you are "competing with" in the sim is yourself. Be a team player, it makes everyone safer and that is what BA wants. Handling is important but NOTECH skills will get you through the assessment.
BA loves TDODAR and plane, path people. It also likes you to operate at the Think Ahead end of the SA spectrum. all this is easier if you think and act like a member of a crew.
Be yourself, there are plenty of places available so the only person you are "competing with" in the sim is yourself. Be a team player, it makes everyone safer and that is what BA wants. Handling is important but NOTECH skills will get you through the assessment.
BA loves TDODAR and plane, path people. It also likes you to operate at the Think Ahead end of the SA spectrum. all this is easier if you think and act like a member of a crew.
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Thanks everyone I was just not familiar with the terminology NOTECHS, my company has over 9600 pilots and speak another language with a lot of slang so definitely practicing it,
Has anyone else tried to book first day testing slot and got message non available?
Has anyone else tried to book first day testing slot and got message non available?
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DEP Physics
Hi,
Great thread, not ruined by miserable sods yet:-)
I've got the assessment coming up in January and there is quite a lot of information that will help me brush up on this thread, just one thing I can't find an answer to... Are there physics questions? My physics knowledge has had very limited use since 1997 and a question on thermodynamics or waves might not go down too well
..
Anyone who's been remember any physics bits?
Great thread, not ruined by miserable sods yet:-)
I've got the assessment coming up in January and there is quite a lot of information that will help me brush up on this thread, just one thing I can't find an answer to... Are there physics questions? My physics knowledge has had very limited use since 1997 and a question on thermodynamics or waves might not go down too well
..Anyone who's been remember any physics bits?
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No need to brush up on quantum wave equations 
It's all ratios, surfaces, angles, percentages, distance travelled, etc. The main challenge is speed as you pretty much only get 30 seconds per question.
Well I have a new shot at the sim, so we'll see if I've improved since last time
It's all ratios, surfaces, angles, percentages, distance travelled, etc. The main challenge is speed as you pretty much only get 30 seconds per question.
Well I have a new shot at the sim, so we'll see if I've improved since last time
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What is TDODAR?
I got invited to day 1 and picked day in Feb, went to book a flight which was expensive to make sure I get there, went back to invite site and it says no slots available.
BA send daily reminders to remind me to book the day 1 as per the invite, but then states maybe no more slots will be allocated!
Is this a situation where they only allow so many slots and invite many more people than there are slots? if so I need to try and get a refund for my flight.
Appreciate any info
I got invited to day 1 and picked day in Feb, went to book a flight which was expensive to make sure I get there, went back to invite site and it says no slots available.
BA send daily reminders to remind me to book the day 1 as per the invite, but then states maybe no more slots will be allocated!
Is this a situation where they only allow so many slots and invite many more people than there are slots? if so I need to try and get a refund for my flight.
Appreciate any info
Hey flydog let me Google that for you....
Best Practice in Pilot Monitoring | Safety & Risk Management | Operations and Safety
This is the BASIS (see what I did there?) of problem solving both in the sim and on line flights. Have to say it works well, especially as everyone in BA is expecting that this framework will be used. Have actually used it in anger with a good outcome....
Best Practice in Pilot Monitoring | Safety & Risk Management | Operations and Safety
This is the BASIS (see what I did there?) of problem solving both in the sim and on line flights. Have to say it works well, especially as everyone in BA is expecting that this framework will be used. Have actually used it in anger with a good outcome....
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If your invited then they want to see you. They don't invite 10 candidates and only provide spaces for 5. They maybe thin down the 10 to 5 after day one but all get their chance.
TDODAR
Time (how much time do you have? Fuel endurance? Fire? Icing? What is limiting your time? Maybe nothing so set a deadline for a course of action)
Diagnosis, what is the problem or more importantly how does that affect the aircraft and its capability. How will you get your flaps, gear, brakes. How will you go around?
Options, if you have one solid option and are short on time then that's enough. If you have time then explore a few others. Ask your colleague for another option)
Decision, if times short it maybe as simple as can we stop in that distance with this failure. With time you can run through BRAN benefits, risk, analysis and what if we do nothing of your two, three options
Allocate, who will do what and how
Review, constantly review your decision. What's changed? Does our decision still work. Maybe you now have more time, maybe the runway is now wet with a light tail wind.
It sounds like a right faf but it works really well. When you brief the approach not only brief what you will do but how you will do it. Not required for the sim as your not type rated but include automation and FMA's. Set yourself gates eg here I will be at .....kts, flap 1-2 etc. gear down at.....if you deviate from the plan verbalized why. This helps your colleague to support you by giving an easy point to intervene if your not flying the plan.
It maybe as fast as. Time....none we are on fire. Diagnosis......eng fire....aircraft is Cat 3 single. Options......can we go back from where we just took off? Probably pre briefed this. Decide....it fits what we pre briefed. Allocate....as we brief prior to departure, Review.....all the time until you get in your car and drive home.
TDODAR
Time (how much time do you have? Fuel endurance? Fire? Icing? What is limiting your time? Maybe nothing so set a deadline for a course of action)
Diagnosis, what is the problem or more importantly how does that affect the aircraft and its capability. How will you get your flaps, gear, brakes. How will you go around?
Options, if you have one solid option and are short on time then that's enough. If you have time then explore a few others. Ask your colleague for another option)
Decision, if times short it maybe as simple as can we stop in that distance with this failure. With time you can run through BRAN benefits, risk, analysis and what if we do nothing of your two, three options
Allocate, who will do what and how
Review, constantly review your decision. What's changed? Does our decision still work. Maybe you now have more time, maybe the runway is now wet with a light tail wind.
It sounds like a right faf but it works really well. When you brief the approach not only brief what you will do but how you will do it. Not required for the sim as your not type rated but include automation and FMA's. Set yourself gates eg here I will be at .....kts, flap 1-2 etc. gear down at.....if you deviate from the plan verbalized why. This helps your colleague to support you by giving an easy point to intervene if your not flying the plan.
It maybe as fast as. Time....none we are on fire. Diagnosis......eng fire....aircraft is Cat 3 single. Options......can we go back from where we just took off? Probably pre briefed this. Decide....it fits what we pre briefed. Allocate....as we brief prior to departure, Review.....all the time until you get in your car and drive home.
