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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 4th Nov 2014, 10:49
  #1001 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: london
Posts: 10
Airbus Unplugged - it's not BALPA or BA that have thrown you to the dogs, it's the market. We live in a capitalist system. BA short haul needs a lower cost base to remain competitive, turn a profit and ultimately - survive. This is derived through 'efficiencies'. Bid line is not the most efficient way of rostering your human resources.
It's a cruel world. But don't worry, BA long haul will have to face it's own day of reckoning in the near / medium future. Wait for Norwegian or similar to crack an acceptable cheap transatlantic service and everyone will have to follow.
Everything has changed. It's horrible for all our T and Cs, but there's only one way this is going.
Don't go blaming BALPA or even the company. Our country's / the world's economic model is set up to make this happen. Customers will chose the lowest cost acceptable product they can find - and businesses must provide what is wanted or go under.
Sitting as a BA employee it would be easy to feel slightly immune / protected / outside the cut throat nasty world of cheap low cost no frills airlines. As Morrisons, Sainsbury's and Tesco's have found out - you're not. Aldi and Lidl are coming for you. I'm afraid BA is not Fortnum and Masons or Harrods. At best it's Waitrose - and even they have to have a competitive cost base, comparative pay and staffing.
It would also be easy to think BA just needs a little tweak here and there. Minor adjustments to bid line etc. Willy Walsh knows this isn't the case and that wholesale reform is required. Terrible, but true.
Most BA pilots know that the market and reality is barking at the door. Those close to retirement might just walk out the door and not face the new era. However, for those younger, and those contemplating joining, be in no doubt, the last hiding place from the harsher airline world is going to disappear.
I really wish it was otherwise.
AIAA is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2014, 10:50
  #1002 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,220
The 'we've all been shafted on SH and you're alright on LH' argument doesn't really help anyone.

Excepting those who are already in the LHS on LH and will, probably, remain in that position the natural 'flow' to LHS LH is through LHS SH.

Therefore, for the majority of pilots in BA who aim for LHS LH they will have to accept the new SH regulations. Ironically these regulations would have become law anyway in 2016. What is coming in is increasing the productivity for the SH crews whilst at work without increasing the number of days at work.

Nothing is ideal, we would all like to go back to the heady days of the 60's and 70's where one or two trips a month was the norm. It isn't going to happen unfortunately.

As far as the communications from BALPA BACC have been, in my opinion, atrocious and the 'we know best we'll feed you the crumbs when we deem fit' approach hasn't helped ease tensions.
Wirbelsturm is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2014, 12:11
  #1003 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Uk
Posts: 142
Direct entry recruitment

Any news on the recruitment campaign guys? Did they successfully recruit enough airbus rated people for this year and next. The same for the Boeing wide body opening? Is the Non rated recruitment just to fill a small gap in the numbers? Even after all of the above postings I'm still interested.
Harry palmer is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2014, 14:53
  #1004 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 278
I'm not a BA pilot (unfortunately, one day maybe...), but if the 'only' outcome of the SHBR is a change to bidline and increased hours then surely that's not too bad? Is it being completely abolished or are pilot's still going to be able to have input into their rosters? As people have pointed out, EASA FTL's were coming anyway.

What would concern me is the continual downward pressure on T&Cs not letting up. Bidline changes might be enough now, but what if management come calling again in a years time? What do you conceed then? If all the current situation is doing is slowing the gradual slide to a BA Express type system then you might as well do it now and get it over with. Maybe this latest round will be enough, but people thought that after the PP34/BMI efficiencies....
ManUtd1999 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2014, 15:15
  #1005 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,496
but what when management come calling again in a years time?
As they say these days: "fixed it for you"

I think the next give will have to be from Long Haul, I don't think (from what has been posted elsewhere today) Short Haul have anything left....

Last edited by wiggy; 4th Nov 2014 at 16:42. Reason: from what has been posted elsewhere today...
wiggy is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2014, 19:19
  #1006 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 403
what about when they come next time?.......as if they would they have however already told us and the city it is called project Darwin.
bex88 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2014, 21:14
  #1007 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 17
Anyone care to shed some light on the latest changes before some of us sign on the dotted line? Even with a PM if you prefer...
El grande burrito is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2014, 10:34
  #1008 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: cheshire
Posts: 1
British Airways medical requirements

Sorry if this has been answered earlier but I can't find much since 2005! What do BA mean by their "British Airways medical requirements" part of the process - is it a medical, if so what is involved? Many thanks.
mebn is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2014, 14:14
  #1009 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Uk
Posts: 142
All good info from all of the above but any chance the thread can get back to the Direct Entry Recruitment, Rated non Rated etc? I understand there are big changes ahead for BA as the industry is changing but there are many of us who see even the new BA as a step up from our current operators. I had tried to start a thread just relating to recruitment for those interested but it was closed and merged into this one.

I wish everyone at BA and those hopping to join well.
Harry palmer is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2014, 12:13
  #1010 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: No where near home!
Posts: 40
After submitting application

Can anyone tell me with a high degree of certainty whether it is a good or bad idea to update one's CV after submitting the application? i.e for hours and subsequent training that has been completed after submitting the application.

Appreciate the info!!
jetstreamrider is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2014, 17:05
  #1011 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: -
Posts: 1,176
Originally Posted by jetstreamrider View Post
Can anyone tell me with a high degree of certainty whether it is a good or bad idea to update one's CV after submitting the application? i.e for hours and subsequent training that has been completed after submitting the application.

Appreciate the info!!
I've always been told by an experienced pilot that updating your CV is a sign of interest in joining them.
RedBullGaveMeWings is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2014, 17:11
  #1012 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sand free now
Posts: 193
By the accounts of many, the more hours you have (experience) the less chance you have.
JaxofMarlow is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2014, 18:01
  #1013 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 160
Sorry. I find that very hard to believe. Do you really think BA would deliberately hire less experienced pilots? New joiners all get paid the same regardless of previous experience.

Sounds like nothing more than a straw poll argument to me. There are plenty of very experienced new joiners, as there are plenty of relatively less experienced new joiners. My opinion is that if you fit the mould you get in. Simple as that. Combined of course with needing a healthy slice of luck!

It's like the age old argument in football. If the junior players are stronger than the more experienced ones, they should get picked based on that, not their lack of reputation. The more experienced players should have to earn their spot regardless of experience.
Full Left Rudder is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2014, 18:07
  #1014 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 126
BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Is that why it states in the vacancy details training, command, or other longhaul experience would be advantageous...
Jumbo2 is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2014, 18:48
  #1015 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Neither here or there
Posts: 70
Do you really think BA would deliberately hire less experienced pilots?
FLR, whether it is deliberately or otherwise, the fact of the matter is that the BA assessments will always contain an innate bias towards those who are closer to their academic years (in terms of number of years since secondary, college, and university level education).

The verbal reasoning tests written by SHL are used by many top blue chips to hire GRADUATES. They measure skills that one has supposedly just learnt by attending Uni. They are a method of measuring skill when one does not possess the experience. In the same way that you cannot expect a rookie to have the kind of knowledge you would expect from experienced staff, you cannot expect someone who is 25 years post his college/uni years to perform well at paper based tests that bear no resemblance to the job or the lessons life has taught them.

Let's not even discuss the silly and pointless 1980s computer games that we have to play.

My opinion is that if you fit the mould you get in.
The "mould", as defined by the assessment process is therefore something which goes against ones maturity (age) and homes in on ones inexperience.

BA, EZY, FR wouldn't dare publish figures on the average age of new pilot hires (not that they have to), as it would expose their not so very blatant ageism by design.
CW247 is online now  
Old 6th Nov 2014, 21:51
  #1016 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 160
I see your point that the maths and verbal reasoning tests may favour uni graduates, but I would still argue that that is a subjective opinion. Are the tests actually designed to target uni graduates, or is it simply that most people who take the tests happen to be uni graduates given that that is the natural point in life to sit such tests? Or do the tests simply attempt to find those with the best numerical and verbal reasoning abilities, with the natural result being that younger people are generally a little sharper in these areas? Thus they get offered more of the jobs? I.e. The people who perform best in the tests get the jobs..... What is wrong with that exactly??

Even so, the contrary could be argued for other parts of the selection procedure, in so much that it is easier for someone with lots of flying experience to come up with good answers to the interview questions, given they have more experience to draw from. Likewise, the simulator is much less of a foreign environment to experienced pilots, meaning less stress and more mental capacity.
Full Left Rudder is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2014, 00:39
  #1017 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: On the side of the pitch!
Age: 43
Posts: 494
All utter tosh, I joined at 34, others in their fifties all in the last 4 years!
SinBin is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2014, 06:41
  #1018 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,442
I was closer to 40 than 30 when I joined as were nearly every one else who joined that day. Furthermore, some of the capacity tests have a direct link to operating aircraft ie the ability to perform multiple tasks simultaneously.
Megaton is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2014, 07:52
  #1019 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: europe
Posts: 3
Question Future changes LH

I am wondering if someone from the inside can write more about future changes to Long Haul...

It has been touched on before in this thread that Back 2 Back trips will prove more difficult to arrange with the implementation of EASA FTL's. Can anyone expand on that aspect please? Why will B2B become more difficult with the arrival of EASA regs?

I'm particularly interested in replies from those currently commuting from abroad....what plans are you making for that lifestyle becoming more difficult in practical terms? Or is it a case of seniority saves the day.

Is it felt that over the longer term people may have to move back to England to be within driving range of LHR?

What other changes should a prospective new joiner consider more deeply before moving from their current position?

Hiace is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2014, 11:03
  #1020 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,220

AFAIK (I'm not a commuter) the EASA FTL's require you to be 'acclimatised' at the point of destination which means spending (I believe, I'm not 100% sure) 2 local nights withing two time zones of your Long Haul base departure airport.

So, if you reside in Europe within +/- 2 time zones of London you're fine for commuting as time at home constitutes acclimatised.

However, a B2B New York etc. or commuting in 24 hours before a trip from the States would not meet the criteria as there would only be 24 hours in the UK between the trips thus making you not acclimatised.

As I say those are only the rules as have been 'discussed' on the flight deck. I'm sure someone may well be able to amend/fill out on the above as necessary.
Wirbelsturm is offline  

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