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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 15th Jan 2016, 20:41
  #2421 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 51
I think a major contributor to Longhaul SFO's not bidding for Shorthaul command has to be the NAPS pension issues (and thats not BA's doing it's the Government's).....

Why would you become a shorthaul captain to create a ~300,000-350,000 pension liability (i.e. you OWE THE GOVERNMENT).... BA Pensions pay this to the Gov but then charge you MPF rate (currently around 9-9.5% interest PER ANNUM) on this figure.....

If you've got 20+ years to retirement that could virtually WIPE OUT your entire pension!

And no I'm not being melodramatic... the figures are out there!
Dave is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 08:42
  #2422 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 859
The problem will disappear when NAPS gets closed to future accrual in the next couple of years and those LH FOs will be kicking themselves for not bidding for a SH command. Then there will be an unholy rush for those same SH commands as the BARP pension is dependent on the money you put into the pot - command allows more money in from both you and the company. This is a short term problem. Remember though that "direction" is a tool the company can also use to fill empty C32 slots!
Juan Tugoh is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 09:26
  #2423 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 189
I think a major contributor to Longhaul SFO's not bidding for Shorthaul command has to be the NAPS pension issues (and thats not BA's doing it's the Government's).....

Why would you become a shorthaul captain to create a ~300,000-350,000 pension liability (i.e. you OWE THE GOVERNMENT).... BA Pensions pay this to the Gov but then charge you MPF rate (currently around 9-9.5% interest PER ANNUM) on this figure.....

If you've got 20+ years to retirement that could virtually WIPE OUT your entire pension!

And no I'm not being melodramatic... the figures are out there!
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Dave is correct. I flew with a SFO who is in Naps and was not taking command for those tax liabilities. It was going to cost him a staggering amount of money so why would you go for a command in his situation?
I can't wait for the next Budget when Mr Osborne will probably end tax relief for those of us in a money purchase scheme.
king surf is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 09:50
  #2424 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
Juan

You don't understand the NAPS tax problem if you think that closure of the scheme to future accrual will remove the tax liability and make SFOs wish they had already taken a command. The number of Captains who've told me "It's OK. You can tick scheme pays and the problem is removed." They don't understand the situation either, so you are not alone. In fact, the only people who are not too concerned by the situation are those who do not actually understand it.

Looking on the bright side though; at least if the company closes future accrual into NAPS, they'll have to pay their full employer's national insurance contributions rather than making NAPS employees pay it!
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 10:49
  #2425 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 859
GS - as one already paying the darn bill I understand the issue fully. It is only a concern to those in NAPS and, I agree, it is concerning.

It is academic to new joiners except the effect on command opportunities. If it means some SFOs will stay there and never bid for a command I'm sure the new joiners will be very happy, as will I as it increases my opportunities.
Juan Tugoh is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 11:22
  #2426 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
The problem will disappear when NAPS gets closed to future accrual in the next couple of years and those LH FOs will be kicking themselves for not bidding for a SH command.
Why would LH FOs be kicking themselves for not bidding for a SH command? The problem does not dissapear. As an aside, anyone who ticks 'scheme pays' without sufficient AVCs to pay the bill immediately, has not sought decent financial advice. Indeed ticking scheme pays at all is only a good idea if you are going to break the lifetime allowance or if you believe the 25% tax free extraction is going to disappear by the time you retire.

Anyway, as you say, we digress from the main subject. I agree with you that the current NAPS tax problem is indeed good for BARP pilots (new entrants) and their command prospects. I've been saying this to BARP guys I fly with for years, in an attempt to cheer them up.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 13:53
  #2427 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
Posts: 122
Anyone done stage 2 recently? What was the time taken to hear? I was told 7-10 days but others have told me within 24 hrs.
Anyone know what the recent time is?
squawkident. is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 15:35
  #2428 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: uk
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by squawkident. View Post
Anyone done stage 2 recently? What was the time taken to hear? I was told 7-10 days but others have told me within 24 hrs.
Anyone know what the recent time is?
I heard within 2 days after stages 1 & 2 (October/November).
7 days after for the sim (December).

Last edited by P0tt3r; 16th Jan 2016 at 15:50.
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Old 17th Jan 2016, 18:58
  #2429 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Time...?

Anyone got any ideas as to how long they had to wait roughly from finding out they were in the hold pool to fleet allocation? I appreciate it is a bit more individual specific - but got the good news last week after successfully applying for the Long Haul DEP, currently 737 rated, and trying to quench my thirst for information!!
Also any numbers for the hold pool?
Rgds!
jimboy473 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 01:19
  #2430 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: E.Anglia
Age: 42
Posts: 20
Fly4more,

After attending a past roadshow one of the BA recruiters made a point of saying they can afford to be fussy when we reached the selection process section on the presentation.

One person asked why the place so much emphasis on the computer test, and there response was it shows that you make it as a pilot and manage a conversion course without failing, which too me doesn't make sense if you are experienced pilots and have been flying for 'X' amount of years does that mean you are likely to fail at BA?

It seems a waste of resource from the BA team to be going on all these roadshow abroad when really they need to maybe evaluate there selection process to be tailored to experienced pilots and not zero hours cadet.
Twinstar2007 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 02:13
  #2431 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 2,408
Originally Posted by Twinstar2007 View Post
Fly4more,

After attending a past roadshow one of the BA recruiters made a point of saying they can afford to be fussy when we reached the selection process section on the presentation.

One person asked why the place so much emphasis on the computer test, and there response was it shows that you make it as a pilot and manage a conversion course without failing, which too me doesn't make sense if you are experienced pilots and have been flying for 'X' amount of years does that mean you are likely to fail at BA?

It seems a waste of resource from the BA team to be going on all these roadshow abroad when really they need to maybe evaluate there selection process to be tailored to experienced pilots and not zero hours cadet.
Hundreds/thousands of hours sat with the aircraft in LNAV/VNAV does not necessarily equal good experience.

You could spend several years letting your skills fade (NOTECHS as well as handling skill) so they probably want to assess that you've still got the skills. Makes perfect sense to me.


Having that stage there doesn't make a difference to those competent enough to pass it. But if you didn't have it, you'd lose one stage of filtering that weeds out the less competent applicants.
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 07:06
  #2432 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: N/A
Age: 38
Posts: 13
Hello all,


Just a quick question. On the math assessment on day 1, do you have a paper or is it all mental?
spyce is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 08:11
  #2433 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Next door but one
Posts: 31
Agreed , i dont BA are concerned about it and yes its a hoop to jump through. And a stage that would certainly count against those more mature types who may find the reversal of the joystick polarity on the cross hairs a real challenge.

You can apply , but your chances of passing the aptitude will be decrese exponentially with age, and that suits BA.

In the old day they just said bog off, you are too old!

Last edited by fly4more; 18th Jan 2016 at 08:26.
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Old 18th Jan 2016, 08:35
  #2434 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 859
Originally Posted by fly4more View Post
Agreed , i dont BA are concerned about it and yes its a hoop to jump through. And a stage that would certainly count against those more mature types who may find the reversal of the joystick polarity on the cross hairs a real challenge.

You can apply , but your chances of passing the aptitude will be decrese exponentially with age, and that suits BA.

In the old day they just said bog off, you are too old!
BA learned years ago that just recruiting youngsters merely inflated the wage bill and causes promotion issues. There are something like 700 sub1000 seniority captains who were the Prestwick cadets. They sit in the LHS of LH aircraft on pp24 (old scales) with fully paid up NAPS pensions and they cost the company a fortune (through no fault of their own)

So when I hear or read comments about how BA only wants youngsters it just reveals the prejudices and anxieties of those making them. BA wants good pilots (admittedly as determined by own peculiar system) but it doesn't give a stuff about age, sex, colour, creed or religion. They don't look for an old school tie or a secret handshake. You either pass selection or you don't, then if you are in the right place at the right time and they need swimmers from the pool you get a job offer.
Juan Tugoh is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 09:28
  #2435 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: The wrong timezone
Posts: 227
And a stage that would certainly count against those more mature types who may find the reversal of the joystick polarity on the cross hairs a real challenge.
You can apply , but your chances of passing the aptitude will be decrese exponentially with age, and that suits BA.
Plenty of the younger generation struggle to pass a basic maths test so according to your logic I suppose BA don't want to recruit young or old?
anson harris is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 10:01
  #2436 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by spyce View Post
Hello all,


Just a quick question. On the math assessment on day 1, do you have a paper or is it all mental?
Yes spyce you do have a spare bit of paper to jot stuff down on and the questions are on paper as well, very time limited though!

Good luck!!
jimboy473 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 10:46
  #2437 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 947
Mate of mine involved with sim assesment with large British airline. He is amazed at the number of ex Airbus candidates from other UK airlines, who have lost the skills of trimming, and controlling speed maunually with the thrust levers, big part of the assesment.
It's not just AF and some Asian carriers, but it appears the basic flying skills deficiency is now becoming a UK problem too.
cessnapete is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 11:03
  #2438 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: LHR
Posts: 187
He is amazed that people who don't use a skill forget how to use it? You don't trim an airbus and a lot of carriers forbid use of manual thrust. Five years of doing that and you soon get used to that and that alone unless you can afford to keep a single engine rating up. It's not amazing, it's expected. However, a couple of hours in a fixed based 737 sim and most people would regain the skill fairly quickly, in preparation for the big even,t 300 for a future career is not a lot.
HPbleed is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 11:16
  #2439 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,083
You'll find the tests are looking at capacity. Can you fly ok and have the ability to do other things at the same time? If you're using 100% of your capacity to just handle the aircraft you're not what they're looking for. NOTECHs are your ability to be able to recognise the big picture, including yourself, and be effective. Get the hang of that and you've cracked it for the Sim.
no sponsor is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 12:13
  #2440 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 947
HPbleed.
It's scary that in the recent AF 330 and Indonesia 320 accidents, the pilots were unable to hand fly aircraft with basic controls, had a full set of instruments, fully serviceable engines, but no auto throttle, and presumably ground speed from the GPS.
Looks like we're going the same way.
cessnapete is offline  

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