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Old 14th Jan 2016, 11:56
  #2421 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 715
Why can't people get it through their heads that, although Vueling, Iberia and BA are part of the same group (IAG), they are completely separate companies with different business models etc! I know it's a rumour network but the scaremongering on here is quite frankly something ridiculous. I think the likely things to be happening are the removal of the complimentary bar on short haul and the outsourcing of engineering etc not completely changing the way short haul operates.


Isn't it a rather lazy rumour anyway? New BA CEO is ex Vueling so BA Short Haul simply has to be turning into Vueling!
RexBanner is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2016, 12:54
  #2422 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 567
I think a stick to beat senior first officers into taking short haul commands is far more likely. A reduction in the pay point freeze would do it. Bring it down to paypoint 5 and then open up a supplementary bid and the problem will be solved overnight. In my opinion, if they start employing DECs, the entire sytem will break down resulting in far too many undesirable consequences for the company.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2016, 14:47
  #2423 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: London
Posts: 6
GS-Alpha - they'll need to sort out the failure rate of LH SFOs coming over to the 320 for their commands first. It's over 50% - allegedly!
Amigo South is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2016, 17:11
  #2424 (permalink)  
Junior trash
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
GS-Alpha - they'll need to sort out the failure rate of LH SFOs coming over to the 320 for their commands first. It's over 50% - allegedly!
Instead of repeating dumb rumours without checking why not look at ibid C32's rosters from a few months ago? See who was converting and now see which of them aren't on the status list anymore.

There are very very few.

The fact the shorthaul operation hasn't collapsed ought to be a bit of clue. They'd be at least 50 Captains short.
Hotel Mode is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2016, 21:03
  #2425 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Quite! The real stats don't support such a claim, and how would one explain the right to left on type failure rate?
Hand Solo is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2016, 21:36
  #2426 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 299
Can't say I've looked at this in my relatively short time in the company but as an aside, my previous operator had a 67% failure rate and were proud of it. The mind boggles! They've since re-written the command assessment process into yet another shambles and are paying a heavy price with people leaving in their droves.

I hope this isn't the road BA are going down. It's a grim path leading to some painful places for all involved!

Sorry, I'm adding to the drift off topic here. Back to the subject at hand, I hear recruitment numbers for 2016 have been upped to north of 400! It's going to be an interesting year if that's true.

Evening All

2W2R
2 Whites 2 Reds is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2016, 23:22
  #2427 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 363
Why shouldn't there be DEC Captains at LGW? If no one's applying and there are vacancies, it can't be ruled out?
Of course it can't and is entirely feasible if there are insufficient suitably qualified individuals already on board.

It came quite close in the late 90s for EOG on the old Dan Dare contract. Suitably experienced folks were getting commands with around a year or so in the company. Strangely, the EOG contract changed for the better fairly shortly afterwards, later becoming SHaG....

BA have always recruited "Captains" (appreciate that can be seen as a cliche). In short, your seniority allows you to bid for a command. If you are senior enough, you then do the command course on your chosen fleet. IF you pass, you become a Captain. Most do. Some don't.

67% of candidates failing is a good selling point if you're not trying to recruit people to pass it in the first place......
Tay Cough is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2016, 03:23
  #2428 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South England
Posts: 21
Assessment

Hi guys, I've just been offered the dep long haul assessment for next month. Wondering if anyone has done this recently (December/January) and can share anything they recall regarding the latest Maths/English/Aptitude. Cheers a lot.
flyer101 is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2016, 09:44
  #2429 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: uk
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by flyer101 View Post
Hi guys, I've just been offered the dep long haul assessment for next month. Wondering if anyone has done this recently (December/January) and can share anything they recall regarding the latest Maths/English/Aptitude. Cheers a lot.
I don't think the DEP process has changed at all recently, and the process for DEP long haul will be the same as for all other DEP.
There's lots of information on stage 1 in this thread and the previous one, but it's the numerical and verbal reasoning, and the 2 current aptitude tests (crosshairs/numbers/shapes, and the multitasking/capacity exercise where you take radio calls/program the fmc/monitor systems/action an "ecam").
P0tt3r is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2016, 20:41
  #2430 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 47
I think a major contributor to Longhaul SFO's not bidding for Shorthaul command has to be the NAPS pension issues (and thats not BA's doing it's the Government's).....

Why would you become a shorthaul captain to create a ~300,000-350,000 pension liability (i.e. you OWE THE GOVERNMENT).... BA Pensions pay this to the Gov but then charge you MPF rate (currently around 9-9.5% interest PER ANNUM) on this figure.....

If you've got 20+ years to retirement that could virtually WIPE OUT your entire pension!

And no I'm not being melodramatic... the figures are out there!
Dave is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 08:42
  #2431 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 836
The problem will disappear when NAPS gets closed to future accrual in the next couple of years and those LH FOs will be kicking themselves for not bidding for a SH command. Then there will be an unholy rush for those same SH commands as the BARP pension is dependent on the money you put into the pot - command allows more money in from both you and the company. This is a short term problem. Remember though that "direction" is a tool the company can also use to fill empty C32 slots!
Juan Tugoh is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 09:26
  #2432 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 173
I think a major contributor to Longhaul SFO's not bidding for Shorthaul command has to be the NAPS pension issues (and thats not BA's doing it's the Government's).....

Why would you become a shorthaul captain to create a ~300,000-350,000 pension liability (i.e. you OWE THE GOVERNMENT).... BA Pensions pay this to the Gov but then charge you MPF rate (currently around 9-9.5% interest PER ANNUM) on this figure.....

If you've got 20+ years to retirement that could virtually WIPE OUT your entire pension!

And no I'm not being melodramatic... the figures are out there!
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Dave is correct. I flew with a SFO who is in Naps and was not taking command for those tax liabilities. It was going to cost him a staggering amount of money so why would you go for a command in his situation?
I can't wait for the next Budget when Mr Osborne will probably end tax relief for those of us in a money purchase scheme.
king surf is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 09:50
  #2433 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 567
Juan

You don't understand the NAPS tax problem if you think that closure of the scheme to future accrual will remove the tax liability and make SFOs wish they had already taken a command. The number of Captains who've told me "It's OK. You can tick scheme pays and the problem is removed." They don't understand the situation either, so you are not alone. In fact, the only people who are not too concerned by the situation are those who do not actually understand it.

Looking on the bright side though; at least if the company closes future accrual into NAPS, they'll have to pay their full employer's national insurance contributions rather than making NAPS employees pay it!
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 10:49
  #2434 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 836
GS - as one already paying the darn bill I understand the issue fully. It is only a concern to those in NAPS and, I agree, it is concerning.

It is academic to new joiners except the effect on command opportunities. If it means some SFOs will stay there and never bid for a command I'm sure the new joiners will be very happy, as will I as it increases my opportunities.
Juan Tugoh is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 11:22
  #2435 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 567
The problem will disappear when NAPS gets closed to future accrual in the next couple of years and those LH FOs will be kicking themselves for not bidding for a SH command.
Why would LH FOs be kicking themselves for not bidding for a SH command? The problem does not dissapear. As an aside, anyone who ticks 'scheme pays' without sufficient AVCs to pay the bill immediately, has not sought decent financial advice. Indeed ticking scheme pays at all is only a good idea if you are going to break the lifetime allowance or if you believe the 25% tax free extraction is going to disappear by the time you retire.

Anyway, as you say, we digress from the main subject. I agree with you that the current NAPS tax problem is indeed good for BARP pilots (new entrants) and their command prospects. I've been saying this to BARP guys I fly with for years, in an attempt to cheer them up.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 13:53
  #2436 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
Posts: 115
Anyone done stage 2 recently? What was the time taken to hear? I was told 7-10 days but others have told me within 24 hrs.
Anyone know what the recent time is?
squawkident. is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2016, 15:35
  #2437 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: uk
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by squawkident. View Post
Anyone done stage 2 recently? What was the time taken to hear? I was told 7-10 days but others have told me within 24 hrs.
Anyone know what the recent time is?
I heard within 2 days after stages 1 & 2 (October/November).
7 days after for the sim (December).

Last edited by P0tt3r; 16th Jan 2016 at 15:50.
P0tt3r is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2016, 18:58
  #2438 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Time...?

Anyone got any ideas as to how long they had to wait roughly from finding out they were in the hold pool to fleet allocation? I appreciate it is a bit more individual specific - but got the good news last week after successfully applying for the Long Haul DEP, currently 737 rated, and trying to quench my thirst for information!!
Also any numbers for the hold pool?
Rgds!
jimboy473 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 01:19
  #2439 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: E.Anglia
Age: 41
Posts: 17
Fly4more,

After attending a past roadshow one of the BA recruiters made a point of saying they can afford to be fussy when we reached the selection process section on the presentation.

One person asked why the place so much emphasis on the computer test, and there response was it shows that you make it as a pilot and manage a conversion course without failing, which too me doesn't make sense if you are experienced pilots and have been flying for 'X' amount of years does that mean you are likely to fail at BA?

It seems a waste of resource from the BA team to be going on all these roadshow abroad when really they need to maybe evaluate there selection process to be tailored to experienced pilots and not zero hours cadet.
Twinstar2007 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2016, 02:13
  #2440 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,276
Originally Posted by Twinstar2007 View Post
Fly4more,

After attending a past roadshow one of the BA recruiters made a point of saying they can afford to be fussy when we reached the selection process section on the presentation.

One person asked why the place so much emphasis on the computer test, and there response was it shows that you make it as a pilot and manage a conversion course without failing, which too me doesn't make sense if you are experienced pilots and have been flying for 'X' amount of years does that mean you are likely to fail at BA?

It seems a waste of resource from the BA team to be going on all these roadshow abroad when really they need to maybe evaluate there selection process to be tailored to experienced pilots and not zero hours cadet.
Hundreds/thousands of hours sat with the aircraft in LNAV/VNAV does not necessarily equal good experience.

You could spend several years letting your skills fade (NOTECHS as well as handling skill) so they probably want to assess that you've still got the skills. Makes perfect sense to me.


Having that stage there doesn't make a difference to those competent enough to pass it. But if you didn't have it, you'd lose one stage of filtering that weeds out the less competent applicants.
LlamaFarmer is offline  

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