Flag Carriers and Seniority

[Lamarvellous]

Hi everyone...
Concerning the multi-national companies and/or the flag carriers that employ direct entry captains; I wonder how the seniority lists are made. What is the procedure for those direct entries to be listed in the seniority and where do they stand in that list when compared with the company senior F/O's when the F/O's are upgraded to the rank of Commander?
Thanks in advance for the answers fellows...
And may the braking action be good and the runway long enough all the time...

[bex88]

I fear there is no standard answer for this one. In the uk its quite simple being that there are no direct entry commands. Captains that joined via a merger were placed on the master seniority list based on the date the companies merged not on their length of service. Hope it helps a little. Others where direct commands were available joined at the bottom of the captains list thus being ahead of senior FO's

[Denti]

We had the case of hiring direct entry captains a few years back when supposedly no FO was ready for command. They simply joined the list at the bottom with their date of joining and once an FO gets his upgrade who is longer in the company he will bypass that DEC and will get first dibs on vacation, off days and bids on fleets. If people have to be fired the DEC will have to leave first as well.

[g109]

The same in EK, any DEC join at the bottom of seniority

[gtseraf]

The contract gig I work for has no "formal" seniority table but does recognise seniority.

Here it is based on date checked to line in the position, so DEC's end up senior to F/o's who upgrade after them, despite joining the operation before them.

[Lamarvellous]

Thanks a lot but...

Thank you all...
Actually, what I really wanted to know was what happens to the senior senior F/O's when they are upgraded as commanders?
Let's say they've been in the company for 10 years and a DEC comes in just a month earlier than the senior F/O's upgrade. The DEC comes from a much smaller company where he could and actually did upgrade in a much shorter notice of time. As a result, a DEC might have less aviation experience and definitely has less company experience.
Now, how shall the seniority list be like?
Thanks again...

[Wizofoz]

A seniority list, while it's application may vary, is a list of pilots in the order they joined the company, so in your above senerio, the long-serving FO will be ahead of the DEC Captain on the seniority list.

How this effects schedules, pay, promotion etc. varies from company to company.

In EK, the senior FO is still, well, senior to any Captain that joined after him. This has some advantages with bidding, staff travel etc.

[EAM]

It depends what you wanna do. A seniority list is just about your time in the company. It usually comes in effect with leave, days off, promotion etc. It has very little to do with experience.
So even when a DEC has less experience it does not effect the seniority list.
In the cockpit the DEC is still the CPT and for this he is in charge.
On the way back home the FO might get the last jumpseat because of his seniority and the CPT has to wait the next flight

But usually companies with seniority list do not hire DEC with less experience than their senior FOs.