Qatar Airways " Think long and Hard"
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I can empathise with everything stated by the thread starter. Same all over the uncivilized world, as far as I am concerned.
These people are very short sighted. They know just enough about aviation to be dangerous.
An unhappy pilot is possibly not as safe as a happy pilot. If a pilot has problems on his/her mind, they havent got their minds completely on the job.
Pilots and engineers still are, in my view, a companies greatest asset apart from their aircraft.
If they think looking after crews is not a priority, possibly ignoring safety, then wait until there is a prang (God forbid) then they will know what is expensive and an important issue.
These people are very short sighted. They know just enough about aviation to be dangerous.
An unhappy pilot is possibly not as safe as a happy pilot. If a pilot has problems on his/her mind, they havent got their minds completely on the job.
Pilots and engineers still are, in my view, a companies greatest asset apart from their aircraft.
If they think looking after crews is not a priority, possibly ignoring safety, then wait until there is a prang (God forbid) then they will know what is expensive and an important issue.
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 5th Mar 2013 at 13:56.
The problem is that they do not really care for their staff, the way they treat people is unprofessional and morally wrong, you are just a number who can be replaced at a moment’s notice. Money is not a consideration, as they keep telling you; they have bags of the stuff.
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Casablanca is wrong or I should say incorrect. They do take your passport away for 6 weeks, in my case and 4 others who joined at the same time, 2 months. Plus you have to have been there for 3 months before you are ALLOWED to have a multi exist visa. Guess what ? They make it a requirements for crew to have a multi exist visa. But who pays for it ??? YOU DO, not them !!!!! Yes you get to come and go, but its for operational reasons they require you to have it. And coming and going, you have to be careful there too ! 
)
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Christ almighty, QR sounds worse than a jail sentence. I have a few ex colleagues who elected to go there as DECs on the A320. Sounds like its a bit more than your average tails of doom and gloom.
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Simples. Ensure you keep the primary passport you entered the country with!
They do not keep your passport other than while obtaining a residency visa.
Pilots are eligible for multiple exit visa and are able to come and go at will.
Pilots are eligible for multiple exit visa and are able to come and go at will.
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You used to put up with this sort of crap because the salary and the fact it was tax free meant it would be worth it in the long term. But the salary these days just doesnt warrant putting up with working for that particular CEO and his absurd rules.
I guess the desperate need only apply.
I guess the desperate need only apply.
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"Its a pity that westerners in managerial positions are no better than their masters".
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I heard quite the opposite about QR surprisingly. From some of my ex colleagues who joined up as 330/777 skippers. And I'm NOT trying to wind this thread either!
Except for the one off booze ban and the odd letter from managment they all have said quite candidly that if you mind your business, nobody bothers you.
Some have gone as far to say that QR would positively be overtaking EK/EY within 2-3 years max.
It is already a 5 star airline. Neither is EK that nor any other airline in the ME.
and where are you staying?
In the RICHEST nation on the planet!
Speaks volumes doesnt it.
Quit whining and start flying I say.
Like I said, just MY own thoughts..
Except for the one off booze ban and the odd letter from managment they all have said quite candidly that if you mind your business, nobody bothers you.
Some have gone as far to say that QR would positively be overtaking EK/EY within 2-3 years max.
It is already a 5 star airline. Neither is EK that nor any other airline in the ME.
and where are you staying?
In the RICHEST nation on the planet!
Speaks volumes doesnt it.
Quit whining and start flying I say.
Like I said, just MY own thoughts..
Last edited by King on a Wing; 8th Mar 2013 at 22:49.
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King on a Wing - If you kept your nose clean under Josef Stalin, his henchmen left you alone. The problem was that you did not always know if you had upset him or not! That did not make the USSR a pleasant place to live or work. Qatar is clearly the rock bottom job of the Middle East, but sadly some people have to do it. Mercifully, I do not and therefore will not be going there.
I have a mate there and he would back every single statement made by the original poster. Like China, you will always be a foreigner in these countries. I am told that even Emirates is going the same way. I heard some informed rumour recently that that have a number of aspiring Arab managers coming up through the ranks and have therefore decided to get key western managers to re-apply for their jobs. Surprise - after a 'fair and balanced' recruitment process, the Arabs are going to get the jobs. That is the harsh reality of working for overtly racist companies like that - it does not matter how incompetent the guy is as long as he is local. You imagine giving up a good career in the UK to pursue the sandpit dream - then you find yourself sacked or demoted because some joke local fancies your job. That is the harsh reality of life out there. Anyone who thinks otherwise is going to be sadly disappointed.
I have a mate there and he would back every single statement made by the original poster. Like China, you will always be a foreigner in these countries. I am told that even Emirates is going the same way. I heard some informed rumour recently that that have a number of aspiring Arab managers coming up through the ranks and have therefore decided to get key western managers to re-apply for their jobs. Surprise - after a 'fair and balanced' recruitment process, the Arabs are going to get the jobs. That is the harsh reality of working for overtly racist companies like that - it does not matter how incompetent the guy is as long as he is local. You imagine giving up a good career in the UK to pursue the sandpit dream - then you find yourself sacked or demoted because some joke local fancies your job. That is the harsh reality of life out there. Anyone who thinks otherwise is going to be sadly disappointed.
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Quotes:
1-"Qr overtaking EK within 2..3 years...."
Can't stop laughing....
2-"It is already a 5 stars airline.."
It doesn't make any difference for us ( crew) if the airline is 5 stars, 4 stars... since the rating is related to passengers treatment.
EK for example which is not a 5 stars airline as you said, give pilots better T&C, generous bonus,pension plan..unlike Qr...
3-We are staying in the " richest nation on the planet"
Probably true, ( the most unequal as well), so as an expat you won't really feel it.
Not whining..just try to bring back your high expectation into a right and more realistic track.
1-"Qr overtaking EK within 2..3 years...."
Can't stop laughing....
2-"It is already a 5 stars airline.."
It doesn't make any difference for us ( crew) if the airline is 5 stars, 4 stars... since the rating is related to passengers treatment.
EK for example which is not a 5 stars airline as you said, give pilots better T&C, generous bonus,pension plan..unlike Qr...
3-We are staying in the " richest nation on the planet"
Probably true, ( the most unequal as well), so as an expat you won't really feel it.
Not whining..just try to bring back your high expectation into a right and more realistic track.
Last edited by salamalikum2; 13th Mar 2013 at 15:23.
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I see what you're saying Alexander. But these are boys who have been there for quite a while now.
Like I said I would readily believe them over another.
But how does what AB do/not do affect the common pilot. I mean they pay you well, decent allowances, reasonable rosters(long haul) fair hotels on layovers. What else are we looking for here.
As a nation, every heaven on earth has a little hell in it doesn't it. It's where we would like it to be.
I mean I can understand if someone complained about the heat or the sand. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.
And Btw, almost every single nation on the planet would shoo the foreigner, if only they could!
But if you make yourself wanted enough, I guess it might be a different story.
Like I said earlier, just my thoughts.
Like I said I would readily believe them over another.
But how does what AB do/not do affect the common pilot. I mean they pay you well, decent allowances, reasonable rosters(long haul) fair hotels on layovers. What else are we looking for here.
As a nation, every heaven on earth has a little hell in it doesn't it. It's where we would like it to be.
I mean I can understand if someone complained about the heat or the sand. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.
And Btw, almost every single nation on the planet would shoo the foreigner, if only they could!
But if you make yourself wanted enough, I guess it might be a different story.
Like I said earlier, just my thoughts.
Good Afternoon Porkling:
Thank you for taking the time and relating your thoughts on being an expatriate working off shore.
I did have a chuckle reading your well thought out posting as when I saw your age it reminded me of an experience I had so many years ago.
As you will appreciate I will not name places or airlines so as not to raise any flags. I was about your age when my manager asked me if I was interested in a secondment to Airline "X". Being the adventurous type I said yes as at that time I thought of getting an offshore tax free job and making a killing so I could retire in a warmer climate with tons of money in the bank but I digress.
While at Airline "X" I worked with a group of expatriates and over beer it seemed to be this, my five year plan is this, problems dealing with the locals which in the vast majority of cases was the level of anger being directed at them because they were "stealing" local jobs, medical care, going home on holidays, schooling for children etc. Other issues and not limited to was the "local" competency which ranged from non-existent to brilliant as jobs were a "patronage" position and the fact this country went from the ox cart to sophisticated jet aircraft in a generation or two. No protection ie a union to back you up, if you did something took someone's "face" you were put in a very "awkward" position very quickly and it was definitely not "milk and cookies" with the management of the day (which changed which way the wind blew).
Needless to say my experience was considered an educational experience as it allowed me to look at many cultures and how they relate to others plus an opportunity to travel.
Would I ever do it again the answer is no mostly because I have "hung up the hat" but it would only be considered if it was to put food on the table.
I would invite others to consider this that there are people who have to go in the "sand box" as this their means to support their families, there are others who do not do their due diligence and really find out they have made a poor decision to go there as there are others who realize they made a poor decision and are not intellectually honest to admit so and then there are others who thrive on being an expatriate.
I know of a few people who went to the "sand box" and have done very well for themselves and others who left the "sand box" early and are now simulator instructors because they could not fit in or the flying time limits were ugly.
So Porkling please keep putting your insights here as I for one find them great reading.
In closing anyone who wants to work off shore make sure you have a good financial planner who can steer you through your countries tax laws as it applies to working off shore and of course Caveat Emptor rules all.
Thank you for taking the time and relating your thoughts on being an expatriate working off shore.
I did have a chuckle reading your well thought out posting as when I saw your age it reminded me of an experience I had so many years ago.
As you will appreciate I will not name places or airlines so as not to raise any flags. I was about your age when my manager asked me if I was interested in a secondment to Airline "X". Being the adventurous type I said yes as at that time I thought of getting an offshore tax free job and making a killing so I could retire in a warmer climate with tons of money in the bank but I digress.
While at Airline "X" I worked with a group of expatriates and over beer it seemed to be this, my five year plan is this, problems dealing with the locals which in the vast majority of cases was the level of anger being directed at them because they were "stealing" local jobs, medical care, going home on holidays, schooling for children etc. Other issues and not limited to was the "local" competency which ranged from non-existent to brilliant as jobs were a "patronage" position and the fact this country went from the ox cart to sophisticated jet aircraft in a generation or two. No protection ie a union to back you up, if you did something took someone's "face" you were put in a very "awkward" position very quickly and it was definitely not "milk and cookies" with the management of the day (which changed which way the wind blew).
Needless to say my experience was considered an educational experience as it allowed me to look at many cultures and how they relate to others plus an opportunity to travel.
Would I ever do it again the answer is no mostly because I have "hung up the hat" but it would only be considered if it was to put food on the table.
I would invite others to consider this that there are people who have to go in the "sand box" as this their means to support their families, there are others who do not do their due diligence and really find out they have made a poor decision to go there as there are others who realize they made a poor decision and are not intellectually honest to admit so and then there are others who thrive on being an expatriate.
I know of a few people who went to the "sand box" and have done very well for themselves and others who left the "sand box" early and are now simulator instructors because they could not fit in or the flying time limits were ugly.
So Porkling please keep putting your insights here as I for one find them great reading.
In closing anyone who wants to work off shore make sure you have a good financial planner who can steer you through your countries tax laws as it applies to working off shore and of course Caveat Emptor rules all.
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I agree with all the points of the original poster and more - he hasn't even touched on the crushing, grinding constant fatigue, the despicably low training standards, the insane culture particularly among the cabin crew of making reports against everyone and everything for having a single hair out of place, the blatant rostering corruption and cronyism, the god awful roach pits that are the company accommodation, the dreary uncultured drab sh!t hole that is the actual country, and the million and one ways those people can make you and your family's lives a misery, and let it be known that you are about as welcome and about as valued as dog sh!t.
The stupidest thing I've ever done in my career was leave a secure job in a orange-themed european lo-co to go there, and the biggest feeling of relief in my life was when I left Doha for the final time about 1 day after my bond was expired.
The stupidest thing I've ever done in my career was leave a secure job in a orange-themed european lo-co to go there, and the biggest feeling of relief in my life was when I left Doha for the final time about 1 day after my bond was expired.
I Have Control
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Hmmmm
I understand that they are considerably worse than you describe, Sky Toddler.
DEC's are by and large most unhappy with their lot.
Frankly, no-one should be surprised. QOL is low/zero in that part of the world.
DEC's are by and large most unhappy with their lot.
Frankly, no-one should be surprised. QOL is low/zero in that part of the world.