Lithuanian A320s based at LHR ?
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: London UK
Some years ago a significant amount of the Virgin Atlantic 747 flying was outsourced to Air Atlanta Icelandic, in fact Virgin sourced the aircraft from Cathay Pacific. THis seemed to suit them, the routes they were used on did well, and they came on into the mainstream Virgin operation.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: EGKK
VS Pilots thoughts
Let them have it!
Most Pilots at VS joined for lifestyle reasons, we, expected it and were told it at our interviews. Now those lifestyle reasons will vary but I'd hazard guess that a third to half of guys live outside of 90 minutes of LHR and very few guys, mostly ex BMI live within in a sensible distance for daily short haul operations.
So, even if Right Hand Seat guys were tempted by quick commands then it would require domestic upheavel for what is maybe a short term operation. Even worse would be a situation arising that one would forced to take promotion on the Junior Fleet.
So unless the Jetlag is ruining your life, let these guys take the 4 sectors, 5 days week. Add into this mix, cark parks in different counties, some the most obnoxious security staff in the world(close tie with IAD and EWR TSA) to create a hellish daily commute. LHR capacity limits almost guarantee that this is not the start of something big so can't get too excited, let others absorb the uncertainty for what maybe a short term distraction.
Most Pilots at VS joined for lifestyle reasons, we, expected it and were told it at our interviews. Now those lifestyle reasons will vary but I'd hazard guess that a third to half of guys live outside of 90 minutes of LHR and very few guys, mostly ex BMI live within in a sensible distance for daily short haul operations.
So, even if Right Hand Seat guys were tempted by quick commands then it would require domestic upheavel for what is maybe a short term operation. Even worse would be a situation arising that one would forced to take promotion on the Junior Fleet.
So unless the Jetlag is ruining your life, let these guys take the 4 sectors, 5 days week. Add into this mix, cark parks in different counties, some the most obnoxious security staff in the world(close tie with IAD and EWR TSA) to create a hellish daily commute. LHR capacity limits almost guarantee that this is not the start of something big so can't get too excited, let others absorb the uncertainty for what maybe a short term distraction.
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From: Cloud Cookoo Land
What did people really think would happen given the situation and the present climate? Legacy positions with a fast track to the longhaul operation? It will be as flash in the pan as Virgin Sun Airlines. It lasted a few years too and was swept under the rug by SRB. I severely doubt this is a long term commitment, no matter how much I'd like it to be. BA aren't exactly !!!!ting themselves over the prospect.
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 25th November 2012 at 21:25.
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: UK
I have it on reasonably good authority that BA are going to nip this in the bud fairly sharpish. They know VA are pretty hard up. I hear a few months of heavily discounted/ free fares should do it ....
What then ?
What then ?
Assessment
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: London UK
Branson's principle is to give any new venture 12 months and then review it to see if it is worthwhile. He has had a significant number of ventures which have not lasted the course, but some do of course (like the original VA).
As the domestic flights start in April 2013, BA really needs to hammer them in January-April 2014.
As the domestic flights start in April 2013, BA really needs to hammer them in January-April 2014.
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From: Polymer Records
BA to put a sale on LHR - ABZ for a few months to convince VA to give up a Heathrow slot? Hmmmm
Or do you mean a sale on all long haul routes that they compete with Virgin to be discounted. VA still have hundreds of millions in cash, despite their appalling losses.
There may be convincing arguments that Virgin may not be with us by the end of the decade, but "a few months"?
Or do you mean a sale on all long haul routes that they compete with Virgin to be discounted. VA still have hundreds of millions in cash, despite their appalling losses.
There may be convincing arguments that Virgin may not be with us by the end of the decade, but "a few months"?
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 139
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From: LHR and beyond
Sean Dell
Interesting thought you have heard but with the huge losses the BA are caught up in because of the massive losses at iberia (IAG) are you sure they can afford to just "heavily reduce/free flights"????
Even BA's pockets are not that deep with Iberia losing 2 million a day!!
cheers
fc
Interesting thought you have heard but with the huge losses the BA are caught up in because of the massive losses at iberia (IAG) are you sure they can afford to just "heavily reduce/free flights"????
Even BA's pockets are not that deep with Iberia losing 2 million a day!!
cheers
fc
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: The Winchester
BA are caught up in because of the massive losses at iberia (IAG) are you sure they can afford to just "heavily reduce/free flights"????
Even BA's pockets are not that deep with Iberia losing 2 million a day
Even BA's pockets are not that deep with Iberia losing 2 million a day
As has been pointed out at length and many times in the IAG thread: BA and Iberia are still separate companies. BA are not financially responsible for any losses made by Iberia ( and vice versa).
Last edited by wiggy; 28th November 2012 at 17:15.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: EGKK
To clarify, I have a very limited, bordering on non existent knowledge of corporate law.
How are BA completely isolated from the fortunes of Iberia and parent company IAG or vice versa?
I didn't follow the merger closely so an explanation would be appreciated.
How are BA completely isolated from the fortunes of Iberia and parent company IAG or vice versa?
I didn't follow the merger closely so an explanation would be appreciated.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: EGKK
Bishop, you were obviously not privy to last summers union activity.
The Attack Dog had its lead shoved up its arse and was kicked out of the house and made to sleep in the cold kennel forever more.
Currently Virgin does not have a functioning union, BALPA is present in name only, present to do the companies bidding for them. Until the PPU comes online, VS pilots have to accept what they are given and be thankful for it.
Any better suggestions on a post card........
The Attack Dog had its lead shoved up its arse and was kicked out of the house and made to sleep in the cold kennel forever more.
Currently Virgin does not have a functioning union, BALPA is present in name only, present to do the companies bidding for them. Until the PPU comes online, VS pilots have to accept what they are given and be thankful for it.
Any better suggestions on a post card........
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: In front of a computer
How are BA completely isolated from the fortunes of Iberia and parent company IAG or vice versa?
Joined: Sep 2009
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From: House
Ultimately it is the holding company who'll bite the bullet on the combined group. Correct BA and IB are separate entities but at the end of the day either one could bring the other one down. IAG is the listed company on both stock markets and all profits and losses are quoted as one combined company.
It doesn't stop IAG selling BA or IB to the highest bidder though, or maybe a separate relisting on the UK or Spanish markets.
What if something horrible happened? For example, what if IB went bankrupt? If the holding company itself didn't co-sign on IBs debt, it isn't liable for the loss. Instead, IAG would record an approx £2 billion write-off in its net worth as a capital loss on IAGs shares of IB. That alone would destabilise confidence in IAG running BA.
It doesn't stop IAG selling BA or IB to the highest bidder though, or maybe a separate relisting on the UK or Spanish markets.
What if something horrible happened? For example, what if IB went bankrupt? If the holding company itself didn't co-sign on IBs debt, it isn't liable for the loss. Instead, IAG would record an approx £2 billion write-off in its net worth as a capital loss on IAGs shares of IB. That alone would destabilise confidence in IAG running BA.
Last edited by Watersidewonker; 30th November 2012 at 13:49.
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 222
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From: UK
Do Avion Express also operate any A319's at present? VAA website says the LHR-MAN route will be served by one. So if Avion run the Scottish routes will someone else being doing the MAN one?
I do note wikipedia says Avion may be receiving one soon, but that was probably added by someone on here!
I do note wikipedia says Avion may be receiving one soon, but that was probably added by someone on here!
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 113
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From: UK
A very brave move to enlist a "lithuanian" registered fleet. It nearly cost Monarch their reputation! The press very nearly shot the company down in flames after a couple of very high profile incidents in the Midlands. They couldn't get rid of them quick enough after just a couple of months of operations! This kind of out-sourcing is very high risk commercial stuff - You only have to check the complaints on websites such as Tripadvisor for example! Just pause for thought - Lithuanian cabin crew mixing it up with high level UK business people commuting domestically to London??? I don't think so! For BA it's a "win -win"! They'll be laughing at VS domestic won't they?
Last edited by mrshubigbus; 2nd December 2012 at 08:19.
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Another plane
So the Bearded one now pays Aer Lingus to do the flights for him?
The Bearded one was awarded the slots with no ability/intention of operating them anyway?
The Bearded one pays someone else to fly the routes for 3 years , before reverting the slots back to his Long Haul?
Avion Express plan disappeared into thin air thank goodness.....
Aer Lingus will do a great job.......but should have been awarded it themselves initially anyway......but anything to keep the Bearded one happy, and keep him from a tantrum over his train set right?
The Bearded one was awarded the slots with no ability/intention of operating them anyway?
The Bearded one pays someone else to fly the routes for 3 years , before reverting the slots back to his Long Haul?
Avion Express plan disappeared into thin air thank goodness.....
Aer Lingus will do a great job.......but should have been awarded it themselves initially anyway......but anything to keep the Bearded one happy, and keep him from a tantrum over his train set right?
Last edited by Suvarnabhumi; 10th December 2012 at 08:38.
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: London
If its not for Virgin, could it be for another operator at LHR....?????
Maybe avion express are going to be operating for another carrier at LHR........ who knows, there vacancies page never suggested at any stage that they were going to be operating for Virgin, so time will tell.
