Pilot shortage - wall street journal
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Pilot shortage - wall street journal
The wall street journal is reporting a future shortage of pilots. Don't the airlines have no one to blame but themselves?
Or does the wsj opine about a shortage at the price airlines are willing to pay?
Airlines Face Acute Shortage of Pilots - WSJ.com
Or does the wsj opine about a shortage at the price airlines are willing to pay?
Airlines Face Acute Shortage of Pilots - WSJ.com
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Or does the wsj opine about a shortage at the price airlines are willing to pay?
Sadly, this is gonna serve as a "credible source" to all the ignorant individuals going P2F and crying foul 100K short couple of years down the road.
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ALPA, BALPA, IALPA, and all the other Unions need to get together and put some money in a pot and design an advert to go into the press really that there is NO pilot shortage, just a shortage of idiots who aren't wiling to whore themselves out to the industry.
I lament at the advert in todays Airliner World from BA opening the door for cadet recruitment - when they have just slung out a load of guys from bmibaby! The whole system is backwards.
I lament at the advert in todays Airliner World from BA opening the door for cadet recruitment - when they have just slung out a load of guys from bmibaby! The whole system is backwards.
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Rminds me of the Asian newspaper journalist claiming that Australia is one of many countries experiencing a shortage of airline pilots. What absolute rubbish. Each of the regional and major domestic carriers have hundreds of pilot applications on their books as do many small general aviation charter operators. And in most cases they require the candidates to fund their own type ratings.
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Lets hope the UK CAA follow the FAA and up the min hour requirement here in the UK.
What are the chances of a Brit with over 2000 hours and command on a medium jet, getting an airline job in the US when the new rules kick in?
What are the chances of a Brit with over 2000 hours and command on a medium jet, getting an airline job in the US when the new rules kick in?
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to the brit...unless you have a legal right to work in the USA for other reasons than being a pilot (EG...married to a US citizen, etc)...zero
Sully was on CBS saying that the whole thing was rubish and it was the airlines and MONEY causing the problem.
now...the sad thing is this..if som3eone spends the money and becomes an airline pilot you will have a decent job if you are about 30 years old and are willing to suffer for a bout 10 years
Sully was on CBS saying that the whole thing was rubish and it was the airlines and MONEY causing the problem.
now...the sad thing is this..if som3eone spends the money and becomes an airline pilot you will have a decent job if you are about 30 years old and are willing to suffer for a bout 10 years
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The US has come very close to real pilot shortages in 2000-2001 and 2006-2007. Both times, recession in the industry was the only reason that the wheels kept turning. Some of the guys I trained with back in 2004-2005 joined regional airlines on RJ's with 1000hrs and were in the left seat 18 months down the line. In 2006, 250hr pilots were being hired over the phone without even having there CPL issued. It all sounds like a paradise but.....many of the jobs were ultra low pay and those who got fast left seats were often bumped back to the right when the economy slowed.
The US has also come very close to hiring foreigners on occasions. If you have a degree and the employer is desperate enough, they can sponsor you for a H-1 visa. The fly in the ointment is that the fact that the employer is desperate means the job is probably not a good one. So 2000hrs of medium jet time, with some command would probably get you a job flying all night, single crew in a autopilotless Metroliner for $15,000pa. The good jobs (Fedex, Southwest etc) will all be reserved for the locals.
The US has also come very close to hiring foreigners on occasions. If you have a degree and the employer is desperate enough, they can sponsor you for a H-1 visa. The fly in the ointment is that the fact that the employer is desperate means the job is probably not a good one. So 2000hrs of medium jet time, with some command would probably get you a job flying all night, single crew in a autopilotless Metroliner for $15,000pa. The good jobs (Fedex, Southwest etc) will all be reserved for the locals.
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The US has also come very close to hiring foreigners on occasions.
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More evidence that you have to take everything that is spewed out by the Main Stream Media (MSM) with a huge pinch of salt.
The only things that the MSM spews out is propaganda for the established elite; the politicians, the bankers and the heads of large corporations.
The only things that the MSM spews out is propaganda for the established elite; the politicians, the bankers and the heads of large corporations.
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If you have a degree and the employer is desperate enough
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Interesting that a well written piece gets this reception by the ignorant. I think the article and the sources used have a better view on what is happening than the anecdotal responses on Pprune.
Yes Europe has a surplus but if you see what is happening in the US the WILL have a shortage. But at the same time it is of their own making. For the money the regionals offer you don't want to start training to become a pilot... $26K p.a. as start pay at a regional will not get people to spend $100k+ That is one of the main problems. Top that with the pathetic 1500 hour rule by politicians that value hours over quality of training and you get what you pay for: a shortage of skilled professionals
Oh and @A37575 on Ozzie country... Remember 2008? Just before the crisis:
Australia's Rex suspends more services citing pilot shortage
Qantas' regional arm suffering pilot shortage
So cr@p when you don't have a job and you cannot get one but no reason not to look at the bigger picture that WSJ is painting! On a positive note: less supply of pilots and higher demand=better pay
Yes Europe has a surplus but if you see what is happening in the US the WILL have a shortage. But at the same time it is of their own making. For the money the regionals offer you don't want to start training to become a pilot... $26K p.a. as start pay at a regional will not get people to spend $100k+ That is one of the main problems. Top that with the pathetic 1500 hour rule by politicians that value hours over quality of training and you get what you pay for: a shortage of skilled professionals
Oh and @A37575 on Ozzie country... Remember 2008? Just before the crisis:
Australia's Rex suspends more services citing pilot shortage
Qantas' regional arm suffering pilot shortage
So cr@p when you don't have a job and you cannot get one but no reason not to look at the bigger picture that WSJ is painting! On a positive note: less supply of pilots and higher demand=better pay
Last edited by No RYR for me; 15th Nov 2012 at 11:08.
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Yes ...another one. It is not difficult there will be a massive worldwide shortage of experienced pilots in the medium term. I used to work for Airbus Industries Market Research Department and would explain the process of the worlds most sophisticated prediction tool. However most of the people who have replied here have made up their own minds.. so rather than open myself up to a load of ill informed abuse...I'll go for a beer!
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There is not and probably never will be shortage of pilots. The article, and I quote:
Bob Reding has to have what you might describe as a vested interest. And Kit Darby appears to suggest that the US will be short in six months. But he has to be wrong. If the US is anything like the rest of the world there is an enormous glut of unemployed pilots. And even if there was local supply problem, that would be fixed in an instant by allowing short term visas for foreign pilots.
How will we know who's right? Well, if the starting pay for First Officer in a US regional airline rises to more $50K, it will show there is a shortage! Because this is the salary that will have to be paid to attract new entrants and qualified pilots from other operators. And we'll also see non-US nationals flying on short term contracts (at significantly higher rates). And obviously, well managed regional airlines will be making arrangements with FTOs to guarantee a continuous supply of F/Os. But they are not. And come June next year, every airline will still be fully crewed, F/O's will still be screwed and there'll be no aliens! Though we'll still see articles (from training organisations) saying there's a shortage coming... in six months!
"This is going to come to a crisis," said Bob Reding, recently retired executive vice president of operations at AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and now a consultant to FlightSafety International Inc., an aviation training provider.
Added Kit Darby, a consultant on pilot-hiring trends: "We are about four years from a solution, but we are only about six months away from a problem."
Added Kit Darby, a consultant on pilot-hiring trends: "We are about four years from a solution, but we are only about six months away from a problem."
How will we know who's right? Well, if the starting pay for First Officer in a US regional airline rises to more $50K, it will show there is a shortage! Because this is the salary that will have to be paid to attract new entrants and qualified pilots from other operators. And we'll also see non-US nationals flying on short term contracts (at significantly higher rates). And obviously, well managed regional airlines will be making arrangements with FTOs to guarantee a continuous supply of F/Os. But they are not. And come June next year, every airline will still be fully crewed, F/O's will still be screwed and there'll be no aliens! Though we'll still see articles (from training organisations) saying there's a shortage coming... in six months!
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How many of you are actually flying in the airlines in the USA? I am, and I've flown in the UK previously too. The markets are so far removed from each other that even I couldn't believe it when I first moved here.
There is already a pilot shortage at the regional airlines and it's just going to get worse. American Eagle (currently in chapter 11) and Republic Holdings are both offering $5,000 signing bonuses in addition to their meagre first year pay. People simply aren't turning up to classes or interviews. Hell, when I moved to the USA after getting married two years ago I was hired instantly at the first job fair I attended. The interview was a joke, but as I met ATP mins, had jet and turboprop experience and had a pulse, that was good enough for them. I ended up with five job offers at various regionals within the next two weeks. My current airline is considered to be one of the best regionals out there, although that really is an oxymoron. We can't fill our classes. Management have openly told us that they are concerned about what they are going to do next year when the majors start hiring.
Don't be fooled, there is no shortage at the major level, but down here in the regionals it's already well underway and over the next five years it will spread up to the majors. The USA is facing the perfect storm, the 1,500 hours rule, age 65 retirements and new rest rules requiring 20% more pilots all come into force next year.
I doubt the country will open it's boarders to foreign pilots unless it's through marriage or other legitimate family means, but there is a shortage coming.
I see no hope of returning to Europe in the medium term for myself and my wife, no matter how much we want to. The industry is as DOA there at the moment.
By the way, Gulfstream Academy did take on foreign pilots for their line training course in the past, but none were ever offered visas or employment, and certainly none of their foreign pay to play pilots ever made it to CAL or any other major without having a green card or citizenship. Thankfully Gulfstream are now Silver Airways and no longer offer that programme.
There is already a pilot shortage at the regional airlines and it's just going to get worse. American Eagle (currently in chapter 11) and Republic Holdings are both offering $5,000 signing bonuses in addition to their meagre first year pay. People simply aren't turning up to classes or interviews. Hell, when I moved to the USA after getting married two years ago I was hired instantly at the first job fair I attended. The interview was a joke, but as I met ATP mins, had jet and turboprop experience and had a pulse, that was good enough for them. I ended up with five job offers at various regionals within the next two weeks. My current airline is considered to be one of the best regionals out there, although that really is an oxymoron. We can't fill our classes. Management have openly told us that they are concerned about what they are going to do next year when the majors start hiring.
Don't be fooled, there is no shortage at the major level, but down here in the regionals it's already well underway and over the next five years it will spread up to the majors. The USA is facing the perfect storm, the 1,500 hours rule, age 65 retirements and new rest rules requiring 20% more pilots all come into force next year.
I doubt the country will open it's boarders to foreign pilots unless it's through marriage or other legitimate family means, but there is a shortage coming.
I see no hope of returning to Europe in the medium term for myself and my wife, no matter how much we want to. The industry is as DOA there at the moment.
By the way, Gulfstream Academy did take on foreign pilots for their line training course in the past, but none were ever offered visas or employment, and certainly none of their foreign pay to play pilots ever made it to CAL or any other major without having a green card or citizenship. Thankfully Gulfstream are now Silver Airways and no longer offer that programme.
Last edited by EMB-145LR; 15th Nov 2012 at 14:17.
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...both offering $5,000 signing bonuses in addition to their meagre first year pay. People simply aren't turning up to classes or interviews.
Best of luck!
PM
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If the US is anything like the rest of the world there is an enormous glut of unemployed pilots.
I expect the following to happen:
-The shortage in the US will get bigger
-Salary goes up (as it should!)
-Still aircraft parked
-1500 Minimum hour rule goes out of the window (as it should!)
-Foreigners are allowed in...(least likely)
In short the costcutters and politicians ate getting what they ehh didn't pay for
The sad thing is that in the above scenario the lessons of ColganAir and the quality improvements required in US training go out of the window first.....
