B 777 commuting contract africa
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Good to see that some sense does apply after all....yesterday I got the call that we're moving ahead so it seems in about 2 weeks ( after 60 a day thanks for the reminder ) we will be on contract, 3 year extendable, 25 days away from home, suits me.....737NG and PlayStation, both of you chaps sound like you've been around, did you do Ethiopia and didnt like it, your observations welcomed.
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Only a fool or the very desparate work for free, especially when you come already type rated.
Flight Crew International of Dallas is one of many agencies trying to supply DECs to Ethiopian. When confronted on the $60/day per-diem until on line. Their response was that's the it is. Thus I declined to accept their ever so generous offer.
Revalidated my CFI wtih a chap who is currently with Ethiopian. He explained ther are far more reaching issues wihtin the Airline's culture and operations as it pertains to both safety and legality of operations.
Last edited by captjns; 18th Oct 2012 at 13:45.
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Nope, 737, and if you see the salary I posted for that vacancy, you can see why I wasn't too heartbroken to miss the "opportunity".
I believe the delaying check-out /extending line training mentality to be common to all fleets however. Happy to be proven wrong, but doubt it.
I believe the delaying check-out /extending line training mentality to be common to all fleets however. Happy to be proven wrong, but doubt it.
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Chipmunk,
You have obviously made up your mind, so go and try it. I am merely passing on what I have heard from a B767 capt who is there RIGHT NOW.
I've seen the contract as well - it's not exactly extensive, the English is bad and there are no guarantees.
As my friend said , if you can make it through 7-8 weeks of being shouted at in training it's a bit better on line. He almost enjoys the job now..
You have obviously made up your mind, so go and try it. I am merely passing on what I have heard from a B767 capt who is there RIGHT NOW.
I've seen the contract as well - it's not exactly extensive, the English is bad and there are no guarantees.
As my friend said , if you can make it through 7-8 weeks of being shouted at in training it's a bit better on line. He almost enjoys the job now..
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Speaking directly to recruiters at Sigmar and Silverwings... they confirmed to me that NO SALARY during training. Only per-diem at a rage of $60.00 US per day. Only after and when your final line check has been completed, you will go on full pay.
Bear in mind, it's in the interest in the company to stretch the line training portion to the max as essentially there will be two pilots up front, with only one being paid.
I can't speak for the 757757 or 777, but the 737 program has been taking as long at 3 plus months of which there is a very extensive line training program, again for the reasons previously mentioned.
Perhaps if prospective pilots would exercise self-control, turn down job offers, refuse employment on such atrocious terms and conditions, and then and only then, voice their opinions to the contractors, Ethiopian could be convinced to pony up the $$$$ during training.
It time that pilots be part of the solution rather than part of the problem as far as the "BAR" is concerned.
Bear in mind, it's in the interest in the company to stretch the line training portion to the max as essentially there will be two pilots up front, with only one being paid.
I can't speak for the 757757 or 777, but the 737 program has been taking as long at 3 plus months of which there is a very extensive line training program, again for the reasons previously mentioned.
Perhaps if prospective pilots would exercise self-control, turn down job offers, refuse employment on such atrocious terms and conditions, and then and only then, voice their opinions to the contractors, Ethiopian could be convinced to pony up the $$$$ during training.
It time that pilots be part of the solution rather than part of the problem as far as the "BAR" is concerned.
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777 ET
just waiting on my validation to start line Training....this is my second week here....so after a week of Line Training and check ride, should be released and on contract.
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Chip
Just three questions:
- what exactly they mean for 'validation'?
- who told the said 'training' will take just a couple of sectors and then you'd be released? Is it on paper?
I guess there's no other expat on 777 released on line yet, isn't it?
Good luck.
- what exactly they mean for 'validation'?
- who told the said 'training' will take just a couple of sectors and then you'd be released? Is it on paper?
I guess there's no other expat on 777 released on line yet, isn't it?
Good luck.
Last edited by fullforward; 8th Nov 2012 at 09:12.
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Validation to "START line-training" & you will be paid full salary from. . . . . final line check. Have you read or taken heed of the previous few posts, or is your head still buried in the sand.
I fear you are going to be dissapointed in your November salary payout, but pray, please come back and correct our misconceptions if they are proven to be baseless.
I fear you are going to be dissapointed in your November salary payout, but pray, please come back and correct our misconceptions if they are proven to be baseless.
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ET
spoke to VP flight ops - a Captain Desta, my validation on my ATP will allow me to legally handle an ET reg aircraft...as Im current he reckons it shouldnt take a lot of training to get me upto check stards, certainly not 6 weeks, sure they need me earning for them asap. So far what I expected, yes Ive seen the posts but Im here, getting on with it, all seems as I was lead to believe by the agency to be honest.
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If they really need 777 Skippers they should ensure you are line-checked Hasta Pronto. . . . but, if you are not ( & they can fly you for free in the LHS, accompanied I am led to believe by a "retired" TC in the RHS. . well, he is "cheap", but Happy, as he is making some post-retiral bucks & ) you. . . are FREE , so you are in any case "earning" for them big-time. 
I sincerely hope all the stories are exaggerated, for sure on the 737 they are not . . maybe (?) the 777 is better.
I hope you will come back to us & let us know how quickly (or otherwise) you were on the payroll, thereby enabling others to make a considered decision.
I sincerely hope all the stories are exaggerated, for sure on the 737 they are not . . maybe (?) the 777 is better.
I hope you will come back to us & let us know how quickly (or otherwise) you were on the payroll, thereby enabling others to make a considered decision.
Last edited by captplaystation; 8th Nov 2012 at 18:26.
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Come on guys... How can rational mature current qualified 777 or 737 or 757/767 even consider joining such an organization, knowing full well that there will be no pay until on contract. I just don't get it. Was the Kool Aide that yummy?
What happened to the bar??? you know... lets raise the bar for T & Cs once and for all! Those who join Ethiopian or any other airline with the same per-diem plan, during training, are no better than those who pay to play at puppy palaces such as Lion Air
.
Hmmm... early retired legacy pilot earning 6 digit salaries with some benefits... then off to Ethiopian... no salary... That's a good move
Or what am I missing here? Anyone??? Anyone???
I wonder if any of these chaps waiting for that first pay check ever upon completion of their line training ever gave it a second thought... where would the airline be accepted employment? Who would fly their jets?
Think about it... how much money does a brand new jet earn while it is nothing more than a grounded billboard with wings on it?
Ya think they would be forced to change their tune?
What happened to the bar??? you know... lets raise the bar for T & Cs once and for all! Those who join Ethiopian or any other airline with the same per-diem plan, during training, are no better than those who pay to play at puppy palaces such as Lion Air
.Hmmm... early retired legacy pilot earning 6 digit salaries with some benefits... then off to Ethiopian... no salary... That's a good move
Or what am I missing here? Anyone??? Anyone???I wonder if any of these chaps waiting for that first pay check ever upon completion of their line training ever gave it a second thought... where would the airline be accepted employment? Who would fly their jets?
Think about it... how much money does a brand new jet earn while it is nothing more than a grounded billboard with wings on it?
Ya think they would be forced to change their tune?
Last edited by captjns; 8th Nov 2012 at 18:55.
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Ok, I'll stick my neck out. Chipmunk is either ET management or a school boy. I don't believe he/ she is a current 777 captain - I imagined they would be brighter.
Of the three capts I know who got involved with this lot -
1/ likes it ok but did do 7 weeks unpaid work
2/ tried it hated it came home
3/ passed their selection, couldn't bring himself to go there.
The fact that is constantly advertised says it all to me .
Of the three capts I know who got involved with this lot -
1/ likes it ok but did do 7 weeks unpaid work
2/ tried it hated it came home
3/ passed their selection, couldn't bring himself to go there.
The fact that is constantly advertised says it all to me .
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African Contract
Until we as pilots respect ourselves and our skills and qualifications, we'll continue to get screwed by people are far less capable, far less skilled, and are usually in airline management because they couldn't get a job anywhere else. These people do not have the capacity to consider the long term damage they have done to our industry, and the damage they have done to future pilots carrers. As the career stands, I would sooner have my kids on the dole than to be used an abused as an airline pilot.
Heres a hint!
You go to the interview and tell them that training will be paid for, salary will be 25K USD a month, plus housing, plus schooling and medical ext . First class tickets for all travel.
Even that wouldn’t be on par with what we as professional pilots got 20 years ago.
Further go and ask some of the hippies working for the squillion NGOs, UN , government charities ext what benefits they're getting being base in Addis and you’ll realise how idiotic we as pilots are for even considering such offers. Or any other professional expat for that matter...ship captains....oil and gas engineers..and and so....what we as airline pilots get paid is a joke.
Its about time we stood up and demand what we deserve....but sadly many of our weak will put colleagues up with such crap.
Heres a hint!
You go to the interview and tell them that training will be paid for, salary will be 25K USD a month, plus housing, plus schooling and medical ext . First class tickets for all travel.
Even that wouldn’t be on par with what we as professional pilots got 20 years ago.
Further go and ask some of the hippies working for the squillion NGOs, UN , government charities ext what benefits they're getting being base in Addis and you’ll realise how idiotic we as pilots are for even considering such offers. Or any other professional expat for that matter...ship captains....oil and gas engineers..and and so....what we as airline pilots get paid is a joke.
Its about time we stood up and demand what we deserve....but sadly many of our weak will put colleagues up with such crap.
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You are almost on target Allaru
Like you, Allaru, the majority of the professional aviation community respect ourselves, and would never consider accepting such deplorable terms andconditions of the likes of Ethiopian. The majority of us are trying to raise the bar. We are trying to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
One would think, that a pilot with more than 25 years of experience working with a legacy carrier, after watching their benefits disappear, living on lower wages, given degraded work rules, would ever consider working for the likes of Ethiopian Airlines.
It's as if they have disdain for the professionals who are trying to achieve better paying contracts, and conditions. Remember airplanes don't fly by themselves, and don't earn money for the company whilst sitting on the ground.
Remember
Until we as pilots respectourselves
One would think, that a pilot with more than 25 years of experience working with a legacy carrier, after watching their benefits disappear, living on lower wages, given degraded work rules, would ever consider working for the likes of Ethiopian Airlines.
It's as if they have disdain for the professionals who are trying to achieve better paying contracts, and conditions. Remember airplanes don't fly by themselves, and don't earn money for the company whilst sitting on the ground.
Remember
Last edited by captjns; 9th Nov 2012 at 05:11.
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lets cut to the chase here, Im no management pilot trust me...flew the line with KAL and some others...im the wrong side of 60, so this gig is fine, also im home every couple of weeks, I have a pension so this suits me, it wont suit some, thats the way it is and this suits my lifestyle.
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I don't think life style is the issue here. It's the validation that Ethiopian gets from pilots willing to work for free until they've completed their line training. That's just not right, and unfair to those trying to seek improved conditions.
It's bad enough when young budding children of the magenta line poor their parents money down the crapper to sit in the right seat of a Boeing ala Lion Air of Indonesia. It's another thing when an individual with many years experience who sells their dignity to the devil, at Ethiopian... and what for???
I couldn't care less how far beyond the age 60 anyone is, there is something called respect for one's peers trying to raise the bar.
Pilots who have a pension??? fantastic. Don't use it to justify the fact that a bottom feeding company refuses to provide a decent wage for an honest day's work. There's no justification for that rational.
It would be better for their jets to sit on the ground without crews until Ethiopian comes to their senses.
It's bad enough when young budding children of the magenta line poor their parents money down the crapper to sit in the right seat of a Boeing ala Lion Air of Indonesia. It's another thing when an individual with many years experience who sells their dignity to the devil, at Ethiopian... and what for???
I couldn't care less how far beyond the age 60 anyone is, there is something called respect for one's peers trying to raise the bar.
Pilots who have a pension??? fantastic. Don't use it to justify the fact that a bottom feeding company refuses to provide a decent wage for an honest day's work. There's no justification for that rational.
It would be better for their jets to sit on the ground without crews until Ethiopian comes to their senses.