Flexicrew Wages
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: London
Flexicrew Wages
Hi. I am just wondering if anyone would mind telling me how much on average UK easyJet FOs are earning right now and on average how many hours you are getting on average? I understand it's £1200 a month for the first 8 months but how much can you expect to earn afterwards? Thanks.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 81
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From: Bridport
I'm not in the industry but is this really correct? £1200 per month?!! Some of my lowest paid staff are on not much less than that and they don't have anywhere near the level of intelligence or skills that one would expect from a FO!
How on earth, with the no doubt large debt that some of the P2F guys have, can they survive?
How on earth, with the no doubt large debt that some of the P2F guys have, can they survive?
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 330
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From: UK
My girlfriend is cabin crew and earns more than that. For 6 weeks training and with the responsibility for a door.
Every day there are more and more EZY flexicrew on the crew bus, no doubt just biding their time, 'slumming it' and getting some hours before moving on to that career airline...the problem is that career airline is trying to compete with EZY so slashes it's Ts and Cs...and so that lucrative, career airline contract isn't quite what they'd hoped for when they get there. The race to the bottom continues...
Of course - CTC, senior pilots/trainers in airlines and the unions have a hell of a lot to answer for too. More so. They have/had the power to stop this exploitation/profiteering. Prospective EZY cadets don't.
Every day there are more and more EZY flexicrew on the crew bus, no doubt just biding their time, 'slumming it' and getting some hours before moving on to that career airline...the problem is that career airline is trying to compete with EZY so slashes it's Ts and Cs...and so that lucrative, career airline contract isn't quite what they'd hoped for when they get there. The race to the bottom continues...
Of course - CTC, senior pilots/trainers in airlines and the unions have a hell of a lot to answer for too. More so. They have/had the power to stop this exploitation/profiteering. Prospective EZY cadets don't.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Joined: Jul 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,793
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From: UK
Prospective EZY cadets don't.
If a lot of people actually stopped to think for 2 minutes as opposed to hurling their cheque books at the agencies what do you think would happen to T&C's / contracts. As long as you keep coming (in droves) so the contracts will get worse. Plain. Simple. Painful. Reality.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 529
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From: U.K.
To answer the posters question:
The maximum you could fly in a year is 900 hours. Therefore the maximum you could fly a month, on average, is 75 hours. with that you could expect maybe 4 standbys.
The maximum you could earn a month on average with CTC on the £42 per block hour rate is therefore £3825 per month BEFORE TAX. The maximum annual salary is therefore £45,900 BEFORE TAX.
The reality is somewhere between 650-750 hours a year for the 'lucky' flexicrewers who get kept on a full 12 months. So that's between 54 and 63 hours a month. Let's again add 4 standbys though you can't count on it and they play with them.
A realistic expectation is:
£2868 - £3246 a month BEFORE TAX. So maybe £2200 - £2500 AFTER TAX and NI.
So it's about £34000 - £39000 a year with no guarantees.
once you pass a threshold amount of EASYJET FACTORED HOURS you'll get a £10 per SCHEDULED block hour pay rise. So take the average hours per month, multiply by 10 and add that o the figures to see where you could be at.
There will be the sensationalists that will tell you they made £4000- £5000 in a month. That was a happy coincidence for them not by design. And they'll have paid for it another month.
Before anyone starts saying 'that's well above the national average etc.' The job is well above the national average and I'd have thought most people considering this method of work have at least some part of a high repayment professional studies loan which will have begun life around the £100,000 mark.
A typical CTC cadet, that hasn't gone bankrupt, has £1200-1400 loan repayments to make a month, maybe £300 a month for a room, £200 for food, £30 for a mobile, £150 for a car. As you can see, it's tighter than a ducks butt. And that's if it goes to plan.
It works fine if you're 21 with rich parents/ went bankrupt/ always planned on going bankrupt.
I urge people to consider their futures though. Their are no pension payments and the average UK pension returns an annual income on about £3-4000 a year in retirement for very £100000 saved. I wish you the best of luck putting anything reasonable away with this salary. Bearing in mind you'll struggle to get a mortgage with the 0 hour guarantee hourly rate contract don't count on falling back on the collateral in your house.
easyjet have no intention of giving people a permanent UK contract on anything other than ridiculous terms (and we are talking excessively low with no additions like pension, LOL, medicals etc). To put the chances of getting permanent employment with easyjet in the UK in the future into perspective (in my opinion), the average pilot has probably somewhere in the order of 100 times more likelihood of getting a job with BA - a company that can afford to be extremely 'selective' and took on maybe 90 pilots from 2500 applications. So for BA that's perhaps, on average a 3-4 % chance. At easyJet the chances barely worth considering. And the company ain't that great for those chances! Think about what you're doing - you're gambling your career on this and every move.
As for jobs in Mainland Europe with easyJet - I think that their will be few openings and competition will be fierce. Unfortunately the ship has sailed. Another example of how this job and life all comes down to luck. Europe's inevitable downfall won't help.
The maximum you could fly in a year is 900 hours. Therefore the maximum you could fly a month, on average, is 75 hours. with that you could expect maybe 4 standbys.
The maximum you could earn a month on average with CTC on the £42 per block hour rate is therefore £3825 per month BEFORE TAX. The maximum annual salary is therefore £45,900 BEFORE TAX.
The reality is somewhere between 650-750 hours a year for the 'lucky' flexicrewers who get kept on a full 12 months. So that's between 54 and 63 hours a month. Let's again add 4 standbys though you can't count on it and they play with them.
A realistic expectation is:
£2868 - £3246 a month BEFORE TAX. So maybe £2200 - £2500 AFTER TAX and NI.
So it's about £34000 - £39000 a year with no guarantees.
once you pass a threshold amount of EASYJET FACTORED HOURS you'll get a £10 per SCHEDULED block hour pay rise. So take the average hours per month, multiply by 10 and add that o the figures to see where you could be at.
There will be the sensationalists that will tell you they made £4000- £5000 in a month. That was a happy coincidence for them not by design. And they'll have paid for it another month.
Before anyone starts saying 'that's well above the national average etc.' The job is well above the national average and I'd have thought most people considering this method of work have at least some part of a high repayment professional studies loan which will have begun life around the £100,000 mark.
A typical CTC cadet, that hasn't gone bankrupt, has £1200-1400 loan repayments to make a month, maybe £300 a month for a room, £200 for food, £30 for a mobile, £150 for a car. As you can see, it's tighter than a ducks butt. And that's if it goes to plan.
It works fine if you're 21 with rich parents/ went bankrupt/ always planned on going bankrupt.
I urge people to consider their futures though. Their are no pension payments and the average UK pension returns an annual income on about £3-4000 a year in retirement for very £100000 saved. I wish you the best of luck putting anything reasonable away with this salary. Bearing in mind you'll struggle to get a mortgage with the 0 hour guarantee hourly rate contract don't count on falling back on the collateral in your house.
easyjet have no intention of giving people a permanent UK contract on anything other than ridiculous terms (and we are talking excessively low with no additions like pension, LOL, medicals etc). To put the chances of getting permanent employment with easyjet in the UK in the future into perspective (in my opinion), the average pilot has probably somewhere in the order of 100 times more likelihood of getting a job with BA - a company that can afford to be extremely 'selective' and took on maybe 90 pilots from 2500 applications. So for BA that's perhaps, on average a 3-4 % chance. At easyJet the chances barely worth considering. And the company ain't that great for those chances! Think about what you're doing - you're gambling your career on this and every move.
As for jobs in Mainland Europe with easyJet - I think that their will be few openings and competition will be fierce. Unfortunately the ship has sailed. Another example of how this job and life all comes down to luck. Europe's inevitable downfall won't help.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 510
Likes: 51
From: A stones throw away...
Blackbrown has it on the head, square on! The likelihood of a UK contract with easyJet is about as much as hitting the big six on the lottery.
Say NO to flexicrew, do yourself and the industry a massive favour.
Ask the 46 UK guys this year stood down over winter to 'consolidate their training' (sec)
management spin!
Say NO to flexicrew, do yourself and the industry a massive favour.
Ask the 46 UK guys this year stood down over winter to 'consolidate their training' (sec)
management spin!
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 783
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From: Everywhere
No, be grateful you asked since now you can put this to anybody else wanting to sign up!!
I joined CTC well before Flexicrew existed and honestly, if it had, I would have saved my cash, trained part time or later, and then taken my chances in Botswana or somewhere if flying was what I REALLY wanted to do above all else.
Just to add: I am referring to Flexi in the current guise - with no real prospect of a permanent contract any time soon and no work over the winter. The scheme (eventually) did work for me as it did with i_like_tea but if I had joined 6 months later it would not have been the case.
I joined CTC well before Flexicrew existed and honestly, if it had, I would have saved my cash, trained part time or later, and then taken my chances in Botswana or somewhere if flying was what I REALLY wanted to do above all else.
Just to add: I am referring to Flexi in the current guise - with no real prospect of a permanent contract any time soon and no work over the winter. The scheme (eventually) did work for me as it did with i_like_tea but if I had joined 6 months later it would not have been the case.
Last edited by The African Dude; 16th August 2012 at 17:36.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
From: Europa
IQ and long term zero asset debt!
Pilotinmydreams
Your lower paid staff probably have a higher IQ than those who seriously consider the zero to unemployed deeply indebted (£120k on average) jet "hero" - anyone with an ounce of sense (ok 0.028349523kg of sense for the younger folk), would steer clear of these schemes!
Your lower paid staff probably have a higher IQ than those who seriously consider the zero to unemployed deeply indebted (£120k on average) jet "hero" - anyone with an ounce of sense (ok 0.028349523kg of sense for the younger folk), would steer clear of these schemes!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
From: U.K.
I like tea, if your posting history is anything to go by, you were one of the first to try the Parc scheme. You were extremely lucky to be able to afford an additional £35000 for the type rating on top of your flight training costs. How you did it is none of my or anyone else's business. I understand why you did it - if I were in your shoes then and could save afforded to I'd have done the same. Nevertheless your post is, with the greatest respect, useless. The first proper year of FlexiCrew was a freak. Back in 2010 easyJet were so under crewed everyone was on max hours, max standbys and thus max money. People progressed towards the pay rise hour limits rapidly. That was then. The only line to be extrapolated from here is a downward one I'm afraid. That's not scare mongering. A few people in the company are heavily incentivised to reduce crew costs. The past is a 'known'. It's probability is 1/1. It has no effect on the future. Your narrative on the past is just an irrelevant story I'm afraid. I personally would really rather not be living abroad - that said I'd recommend to anyone to use this moment to get some 'life experience', see another country, travel a bit and let the !!!! settle. Look on the bright side, your taxes won't be spent on repaying the excessive Olympics bill!
If you have a permanent job flying you'd be MENTAL to leave it for flexicrew. I genuinely wouldn't recommend it and I do enjoy my job flying for easyJet. You need to decide if you want to be a pilot more or be in the UK more.
Permanent jobs in mainland Europe with easy as i've said will be few and far between. You'll also be stuck at the back of a massive queue to get one of the very few perm mainland positions if you've not already 'signed on' for flexicrew ( it's like job seekers). Fleet expansion has stopped and the crews are generally pretty young with plenty of life in them yet!
Do what you have to do but don't moan.
And I like tea please do not take offence, your post was no doubt written with the best of intentions but I think you are a little idealistic in your views.
If you have a permanent job flying you'd be MENTAL to leave it for flexicrew. I genuinely wouldn't recommend it and I do enjoy my job flying for easyJet. You need to decide if you want to be a pilot more or be in the UK more.
Permanent jobs in mainland Europe with easy as i've said will be few and far between. You'll also be stuck at the back of a massive queue to get one of the very few perm mainland positions if you've not already 'signed on' for flexicrew ( it's like job seekers). Fleet expansion has stopped and the crews are generally pretty young with plenty of life in them yet!
Do what you have to do but don't moan.
And I like tea please do not take offence, your post was no doubt written with the best of intentions but I think you are a little idealistic in your views.
Last edited by BlackandBrown; 16th August 2012 at 18:39.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
From: UK
What a bunch of spoil sports... poor show and slapped wrists all round.
I cannot remember seeing anyone with their arms tied behind their backs being marched into Corcorde House at gun point?
I rather enjoy seeing the ever growing number of grinning 'milky bar kids' with their orange lanyards at the bus stop. Their commitment to the industry, coupled with the generous support from Mum and Dad, has served to subsidise mass air travel in the economic down turn. They deserve our thanks.
Most importantly the ubiquotous lack of lateral thought has kept them out and away from Business Aviation. It's all Flexicrew/ CTC./ Ryan and other silly nonsence schemes for our little friends that don't shave yet. Long may it continue.
Bravo
I cannot remember seeing anyone with their arms tied behind their backs being marched into Corcorde House at gun point?
I rather enjoy seeing the ever growing number of grinning 'milky bar kids' with their orange lanyards at the bus stop. Their commitment to the industry, coupled with the generous support from Mum and Dad, has served to subsidise mass air travel in the economic down turn. They deserve our thanks.
Most importantly the ubiquotous lack of lateral thought has kept them out and away from Business Aviation. It's all Flexicrew/ CTC./ Ryan and other silly nonsence schemes for our little friends that don't shave yet. Long may it continue.
Bravo
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 351
Likes: 148
From: FL390
I flew 650 hours per year for EasyJet on Parc Flexicrew, at an average of 2 standby duties a month and was on the highest of the three pay brackets (worked out through factored hours)
650 * 67 + 24 * 260 = 49950 / annum.
With the Irish tax scam system you'll lose about a third to tax. Bear in mind that winter months will bring in almost nothing and you get no holiday pay, no loss of license, no bonus, no share scheme, no pension, no control over your roster and an uncertain future.
You will get to fly shiny new aircraft with great people, but that will be tempered when you fly with he small minority of Captains who hate your guts for being Flexicrew. Fortunately not a problem at my base (where all the Captains were brilliant fun to work with) but definitely a problem elsewhere.
Having said all that it did provide me with the experience I needed to join BA but deep down a bit of me misses the orange airline and wishes they had a more mature attitude towards recruitment.
650 * 67 + 24 * 260 = 49950 / annum.
With the Irish tax scam system you'll lose about a third to tax. Bear in mind that winter months will bring in almost nothing and you get no holiday pay, no loss of license, no bonus, no share scheme, no pension, no control over your roster and an uncertain future.
You will get to fly shiny new aircraft with great people, but that will be tempered when you fly with he small minority of Captains who hate your guts for being Flexicrew. Fortunately not a problem at my base (where all the Captains were brilliant fun to work with) but definitely a problem elsewhere.
Having said all that it did provide me with the experience I needed to join BA but deep down a bit of me misses the orange airline and wishes they had a more mature attitude towards recruitment.
Last edited by Fursty Ferret; 16th August 2012 at 21:23.
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: the road less travelled
Built4Speed, having skimmed through previous similar threads regarding flexicrew, the general consensus among some of our colleagues, and perhaps it is the natural reaction, is that, if it doesn't affect me, then why should I do something about it.
Then I read about the possibility of flexicrew Captains and saw that it resonated with a few more people who previously didn't care too much. I was reminded of an old adage:
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
The question is, what can we do about it? I don't work for easyJet but don't like the way this is heading. Ryanair may already be a lost cause, but perhaps some action here can have an affect elsewhere.
Then I read about the possibility of flexicrew Captains and saw that it resonated with a few more people who previously didn't care too much. I was reminded of an old adage:
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
The question is, what can we do about it? I don't work for easyJet but don't like the way this is heading. Ryanair may already be a lost cause, but perhaps some action here can have an affect elsewhere.
