12 hour home standby and NOT called in
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12 hour home standby and NOT called in
OK, so you are on home standby for 12 hours during the daytime. You don't get called in for duty and you are not contacted by the company.
Have you done 12 hours duty or does it count as 6 hours?
What does the panel think?
Have you done 12 hours duty or does it count as 6 hours?
What does the panel think?
Subject to any variation in your company CAA approved FTL scheme, the 12 hours should count in full if the SBY was taken during the day (presuming your working for a UK operator ?).
CAP 371, Section 22, Para. 22.3 refers;
"22.3 Calculation of Cumulative Duty Hours (all aircraft)
Duty hours shall be added to cumulative totals in accordance with the following:
a) To count in full:
i) Duty periods and flying duty periods, plus subsequent post-flight duties
ii) All standby duty, except that specified in b) i) and ii) below
iii) The time spent on positioning.
b) To count as half the time on duty:
i) The standby duty, when the period of notice given to the crew member by the
operator before reporting for duty, is treble or more than the specified minimum
report time.
ii) The standby duty when undertaken at home, or in suitable accommodation
provided by the operator, takes place during the period 2200 to 0800 hours, and
the crew member can take undisturbed rest and is not called out for duty."
CAP 371, Section 22, Para. 22.3 refers;
"22.3 Calculation of Cumulative Duty Hours (all aircraft)
Duty hours shall be added to cumulative totals in accordance with the following:
a) To count in full:
i) Duty periods and flying duty periods, plus subsequent post-flight duties
ii) All standby duty, except that specified in b) i) and ii) below
iii) The time spent on positioning.
b) To count as half the time on duty:
i) The standby duty, when the period of notice given to the crew member by the
operator before reporting for duty, is treble or more than the specified minimum
report time.
ii) The standby duty when undertaken at home, or in suitable accommodation
provided by the operator, takes place during the period 2200 to 0800 hours, and
the crew member can take undisturbed rest and is not called out for duty."
Well, if it's in your approved FTL scheme, and it's there in CAP 371 then they have to count it - no excuses there to hide behind. You can also request your duty hours from them to check what's been entered. If not entered, you could always have a chat with them to ask for clarification, failing that you could ask your FOI for "advice" as to how they are able to circumvent the legal requirements......granted, this could be a career limiting option mind !.
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Why should insistence on the law be career limiting?
Insistence on applying the relevant legislation correctly shouldn't be career limiting ordinarily, but unfortunately in the current climate, and with the attitude of some employers, to question is akin to (career) suicide.....i'm not defending the rogue employers, Dried Ears, merely stating what i believe might be true if you push too hard....sad, but true.....thankfully these employers are in a minority for sure.
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You could always call the number found on this link so that it can be discretely looked into
CAA Whistleblowing Policy | About the CAA
CAA Whistleblowing Policy | About the CAA
I'm confused as to why you think it should count as 12 hours (as you haven't stated your circumstances) As I read it, there are two times when you can be excused from counting standby in full - hence b. i and b. ii. Let's disregard b ii for now as its not day time standby.
So b. i. Only applies if your time to report is 3 times more than your minimum reporting time. I am a commercial pilot, but not with airlines. I maintain a 2 hr standby at home, with a minimum report time of 30 mins prior to flight. Therefore, the way I see it (and our FOI agrees) is that we meet the requirements of b i, hence we record half duty time if not called in.
Of course, if in your line of work you are on 2 hrs standby, but minimum report time is 1 hr, then yes I agree, half duty cannot apply.
(if you are a pedant, you could read the 'and' between b) i) and b) ii) in the line a) ii) as meaning you have to adhere to BOTH conditions, but to me that just doesn't make any sense, and why go to the bother of separating the conditions?)
So b. i. Only applies if your time to report is 3 times more than your minimum reporting time. I am a commercial pilot, but not with airlines. I maintain a 2 hr standby at home, with a minimum report time of 30 mins prior to flight. Therefore, the way I see it (and our FOI agrees) is that we meet the requirements of b i, hence we record half duty time if not called in.
Of course, if in your line of work you are on 2 hrs standby, but minimum report time is 1 hr, then yes I agree, half duty cannot apply.
(if you are a pedant, you could read the 'and' between b) i) and b) ii) in the line a) ii) as meaning you have to adhere to BOTH conditions, but to me that just doesn't make any sense, and why go to the bother of separating the conditions?)
Last edited by Paul Chocks; 17th Jul 2012 at 18:05.
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usedtofly
1/ Check Company scheme as it may contain the info required possibly with variation to basic rules i.e. cap371
2/ If the Company is incorrect in it's interpretation ask them to check i.e. computer software if used may be set up wrong
3/ If not happy go to your Manager, if required ask him to seek clarification from CAA Flt Ops Policy
4/ After all this come back here and tell us
Simples
1/ Check Company scheme as it may contain the info required possibly with variation to basic rules i.e. cap371
2/ If the Company is incorrect in it's interpretation ask them to check i.e. computer software if used may be set up wrong
3/ If not happy go to your Manager, if required ask him to seek clarification from CAA Flt Ops Policy
4/ After all this come back here and tell us
Simples
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"Insistence on applying the relevant legislation correctly shouldn't be career limiting ordinarily, but unfortunately in the current climate, and with the attitude of some employers, to question is akin to (career) suicide.....i'm not defending the rogue employers, Dried Ears, merely stating what i believe might be true if you push too hard....sad, but true.....thankfully these employers are in a minority for sure."
This attitude, outside the heavy union/employer relationship of the legacy carriers, is exactly why the poorer levels of the profession is so far down the toilet. The less you challenge the abuse of legislation the further in the poo you will sink. The pax, however, expect the same standard from all. How ignorant and naive are they? Only if you tell them and try to protect them and your self. The profession has been diluted so much in y career I would not let my children even consider it with out a firm position in a legacy carrier. The rest are going to the dogs very fast.
This attitude, outside the heavy union/employer relationship of the legacy carriers, is exactly why the poorer levels of the profession is so far down the toilet. The less you challenge the abuse of legislation the further in the poo you will sink. The pax, however, expect the same standard from all. How ignorant and naive are they? Only if you tell them and try to protect them and your self. The profession has been diluted so much in y career I would not let my children even consider it with out a firm position in a legacy carrier. The rest are going to the dogs very fast.
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4 hours free
If you have 12 hours home STBY then you have 4 hours of duty time. The calculation is as follows: up to 4 hrs at home it does not count at all. The time over 4 hours counts as half to the duty time. If you are always scheduled for 20 hrs home stby then you can run out of availabilty by the end of the year even with far less then 900 hours actual flight time.
You do 7 block hour per day, get about 12 hours duty period on such a day, after 11 days you generate maybe some overtime, then you have your 8 days off per month only and the rest days are assigned as home stby...... from 03:00 hrs to 23:hrs that gives you around 8 hrs per day and +80 per month, plus your normal duty period of 11 days per 12 hours and you have over 200 hrs per month. After 10 / 11 months you are running out. Even if you dare to take your annual leave in between............
It makes no sense to me anymore with the high Airplane utilisation to annoy the crews with long STBY´s just to have something assigned and not blanked or even another off day. Three hours before and three hours after the departure slot should do to cover the duty crew and also catch for delay´s, conduct a ferry flight or whatever operation needs that particular day.
You do 7 block hour per day, get about 12 hours duty period on such a day, after 11 days you generate maybe some overtime, then you have your 8 days off per month only and the rest days are assigned as home stby...... from 03:00 hrs to 23:hrs that gives you around 8 hrs per day and +80 per month, plus your normal duty period of 11 days per 12 hours and you have over 200 hrs per month. After 10 / 11 months you are running out. Even if you dare to take your annual leave in between............
It makes no sense to me anymore with the high Airplane utilisation to annoy the crews with long STBY´s just to have something assigned and not blanked or even another off day. Three hours before and three hours after the departure slot should do to cover the duty crew and also catch for delay´s, conduct a ferry flight or whatever operation needs that particular day.
RAT 5.....I agree, if you fail to challenge the legislative abuse, then you can only weaken the situation for yourself, and others.....but it's not that clear cut when your working outside of the legacy carriers with heavy unionised protection, nice T's and C's etc. - at the ****ty end of the stick, you can be asked (told) to do something that doesn't sit correctly on a legal footing - I will say I often did query, and sometimes refused to do the incorrect thing, and my career almost certainly has suffered as a result of challenging - I no longer fly in a full-time job. Being correct and being successful in this career don't go hand-in-hand necessarily, and bills still have to be paid. I can't defend illegality, nor would I try - but the current climate means you have to think a bit before sticking your head over the parapet as it could affect your career prospects IMHO.
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First officer: I wonder what the Panorama team would make of such a situation, or what the subsequent AAIB report would say after its incident/crash investigation was concluded. It's not about the legality etc. it's about the 'spirit' of the law.Sadly some of the various CAA's are not up to the job of policing their own rules. I do remember the high profile case of the lady within Mr. Kinniock's EU office who was pilloried for being a whistle blower, even though she was proved correct. She was sacked but went to court. I see more of that happening in many industries if the greed culture continues. With no unions it is your only recourse to balance the abuse.