Easyjet to close Madrid
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Madrid is a fantastic city. Always found the nightlife and food to be of a high standard, always enjoyed going there.
Barajas is an operational nightmare and depicts Spain's situation. Sh1t!
I will add that I feel for my EZY colleagues. EMA doesn't seem all that long ago.
Barajas is an operational nightmare and depicts Spain's situation. Sh1t!
I will add that I feel for my EZY colleagues. EMA doesn't seem all that long ago.
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 21st Jun 2012 at 19:47.
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MAD is extremely efficient. That is if you operate from T4. Taxi routes are short, no matter whether departing or landing north or south. MAD is decades ahead of LHR, AMS and JFK, to name a few.
Madrid has the best public transport system in the world and the food, entertainment and shopping is as good as it gets anywhere. Of course, all this is only my opinion.
Madrid has the best public transport system in the world and the food, entertainment and shopping is as good as it gets anywhere. Of course, all this is only my opinion.
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If you find MAD efficient, that obviously shows that you haven't seen many airports.
It is, in my opinion, the worst airport to fly to. Not only that ATC is incompetent but they will also show you that they don't give a s**t and that controlling efficiently the traffic comes far after the will to create chaos.
Combine incompetence and adverse attitude and no doubt that a major bug is coming.
At an operational point of view, MAD is definitely the worst place to be.
It is, in my opinion, the worst airport to fly to. Not only that ATC is incompetent but they will also show you that they don't give a s**t and that controlling efficiently the traffic comes far after the will to create chaos.
Combine incompetence and adverse attitude and no doubt that a major bug is coming.
At an operational point of view, MAD is definitely the worst place to be.
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Feel free to have an opinion. But if you think MAD is the worst, you have obviously not been to many airports either. Big airports scare you? Feel lost there? Stick to the regional ones, where you feel safe.
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MAD doesn't even come close to touching AMS or CDG. Even FCO is better!
First of all when someone came up with the word inefficient they must have had MAD arrival ATC in mind. They don't have a clue what they are doing, although from your Spanish perspective it might be completely clear that they are just trying to put any Iberia they can find in front. They don't know what the definition is of EAT. Are unable to give EAT's and when you finally get an EAT they just vector people around for no reason for another 30 minutes beyond EAT.
And if you follow their instructions to the letter you end up going around because your too close, or they waste about 5 nm of spacing.
Secondly, MAD ground control have no idea what their airport even looks like. Countless mistakes while giving pushback clearances.
Thirdly, the shops in MAD are laughable compared to AMS.
First of all when someone came up with the word inefficient they must have had MAD arrival ATC in mind. They don't have a clue what they are doing, although from your Spanish perspective it might be completely clear that they are just trying to put any Iberia they can find in front. They don't know what the definition is of EAT. Are unable to give EAT's and when you finally get an EAT they just vector people around for no reason for another 30 minutes beyond EAT.
And if you follow their instructions to the letter you end up going around because your too close, or they waste about 5 nm of spacing.
Secondly, MAD ground control have no idea what their airport even looks like. Countless mistakes while giving pushback clearances.
Thirdly, the shops in MAD are laughable compared to AMS.
Last edited by 737Jock; 22nd Jun 2012 at 00:56.
Madrid decades ahead of LHR is the biggest load of bull I've ever read on prune.
Get some facts and come back with that comment. I'd guess LHR does 30% more traffic with 50% less runways. I'd also guess Madrid with 4 runways only does about 20% more the LGW with 1 runway. Not to mention, london has LGW, LTN, STN, and LCY to deal with, so please don't say Madrid is decades ahead of anyone.
Get some facts and come back with that comment. I'd guess LHR does 30% more traffic with 50% less runways. I'd also guess Madrid with 4 runways only does about 20% more the LGW with 1 runway. Not to mention, london has LGW, LTN, STN, and LCY to deal with, so please don't say Madrid is decades ahead of anyone.
Last edited by VJW; 22nd Jun 2012 at 03:18.
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This is getting somewhat off topic, but..
[QUOTE]MAD is extremely efficient/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]MAD is decades ahead of LHR, AMS and JFK, to name a few. /QUOTE]
is absolutely hilarious. MAD is by far the worst airport in Europe. If it had anywhere near the traffic levels of the three airports you've mentioned above, there would be complete meltdown and an unacceptable safety risk. Some would argue MAD with its current traffic levels represents an unacceptable risk. I've operated in and out of every major european hub and it is a complete nightmare, with the worst standard of ATC you will find anywhere, administered by the most highly paid ATCOs you will find anywhere, which I think neatly sums up Spain's predicament.
However, a lovely city, and I know a fair few ex ezy colleagues who were very happy there, I wish them all the best. At least from what I understand, the company are attempting to treat them properly on this occasion and avoiding the appalling treatment handed out to DTM and EMA crews in the recent past. Still a very difficult time.
[QUOTE]MAD is extremely efficient/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]MAD is decades ahead of LHR, AMS and JFK, to name a few. /QUOTE]
is absolutely hilarious. MAD is by far the worst airport in Europe. If it had anywhere near the traffic levels of the three airports you've mentioned above, there would be complete meltdown and an unacceptable safety risk. Some would argue MAD with its current traffic levels represents an unacceptable risk. I've operated in and out of every major european hub and it is a complete nightmare, with the worst standard of ATC you will find anywhere, administered by the most highly paid ATCOs you will find anywhere, which I think neatly sums up Spain's predicament.
However, a lovely city, and I know a fair few ex ezy colleagues who were very happy there, I wish them all the best. At least from what I understand, the company are attempting to treat them properly on this occasion and avoiding the appalling treatment handed out to DTM and EMA crews in the recent past. Still a very difficult time.
ezy MAD to close, just the beginning....
MAD ATC are not obliged to give EATs when the delay is less than 20 minutes (see the Spanish AIP), no different to the London TMA is it 
. MAD Initial & Approach ATCO's (127.1 & 127.5) are as good as anywhere else in the EU, it's their colleagues before (and after) them that have given MAD such a bad reputation...but AENA know that, they did a Survey amongst the local pilot population a while ago. The results were never published, as far as I know.
As for easyJet closing the MAD base, well it's already been mentioned the decision has been forced on easyJet by AENA's massive increases in Airport charges, but do you know by how much? How about 11 euros per passenger in 2010 to over 28 euros per passenger in 2013 with annual increases of CPI + 5% up to 2016
.
Madrid will look like a ghost town within the next 5 years....
. MAD Initial & Approach ATCO's (127.1 & 127.5) are as good as anywhere else in the EU, it's their colleagues before (and after) them that have given MAD such a bad reputation...but AENA know that, they did a Survey amongst the local pilot population a while ago. The results were never published, as far as I know.As for easyJet closing the MAD base, well it's already been mentioned the decision has been forced on easyJet by AENA's massive increases in Airport charges, but do you know by how much? How about 11 euros per passenger in 2010 to over 28 euros per passenger in 2013 with annual increases of CPI + 5% up to 2016
.Madrid will look like a ghost town within the next 5 years....
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Guys, those airport fees are bullsh1t. Easyjet is just closing MAD base but will continue to fly to MAD as well as to many other spanish airports. Easyjet is just closing down the MAD crew base in order to destroy forever the very well-paid spanish contracts, that IS the main idea.
310 staff member will go to the UK with a much much worse salary.
No doubt easyJet will send people to MAD in nightstop like in NCE , FCO or TLS, a crappy airport hotel and a 2 stripes FO and young captain both in flexicrew contract will definitely save a lot of cash.
310 staff member will go to the UK with a much much worse salary.
No doubt easyJet will send people to MAD in nightstop like in NCE , FCO or TLS, a crappy airport hotel and a 2 stripes FO and young captain both in flexicrew contract will definitely save a lot of cash.
Last edited by wind check; 22nd Jun 2012 at 10:23.
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This closure has been in the pipeline for quite a wihle. As Mrs Mc Call mentioned, EZY tried to improve things there, but for all of us who fly in and out of MAD, we have to admit this is an absolute pain, a ****ty waste of time on the taxiway, and we love to experience the obvious "sorry, you missed your slot" (a slot ? which slot ?? 
)
I much prefer working for a company that closes non profitable bases and who cares about their employees. Sure this is crap for people who enjoyed their lifestyle there, but at least they will be offered a job in one of the numerous other bases.
Don't forget the 8 aircraft will be sent to France (CDG), Italy (?), England (?) or Switzerland (BSL). Hopefully all the crew will find a good alternative solution to what is happening to them.
)I much prefer working for a company that closes non profitable bases and who cares about their employees. Sure this is crap for people who enjoyed their lifestyle there, but at least they will be offered a job in one of the numerous other bases.
Don't forget the 8 aircraft will be sent to France (CDG), Italy (?), England (?) or Switzerland (BSL). Hopefully all the crew will find a good alternative solution to what is happening to them.
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OK..... Lets address the points made here...BTW I am an easy Captain in Madrid ...
As far as easy pulling out of Madrid is concerned, anyone with even one eye here will tell you it was only a matter of time... The post made at the begining of this thread was spot on with the reasons for easy pulling out. If you live here you see how inefficient the country is. At every level in all aspects of life here, you can see mind blowing wastes of resources and money. To be really blunt, the last ten years has been like watching kids who have broken into a bank spending the money on sweets. Yes , they have built roads and houses etc, but drive around and you spend all your time avoiding accidents due to the mindless road planners who must have just left school constructing a road system that a chimp could have done better with. There are countless half built estates, or even just the roads for estates littered around the periphery of Madrid, built by greedy cowboys who were throwing them up with cheap european bank loans. The toxic debts from insane homeowners who took out massive loans (400-600,000 euros for a two bedroom box flat ) who were earning 25,000 euros a year and now cant pay, are only the tip of the iceberg. Private debt is the elephant in the cupboard, when that starts to surface, the counrty will go into melt down. If you live here you know about the amazing debts run up by local potato farmers who became mayors of their town and spent 160 million euros on follies like a water purification plant
for a town of 10,000 people, or the Arts centre for 100 million euros that never got finished and now lies empty.
Easy went to the government at the highest level and almost begged them to do something about the insane charges at Barajas or face this pull out. Unfortunately for everyone here, the Spanish mentality is that they are never wrong and that putting your head deeper into the sand will make the problem go away! You only have to listen to the idiots in the government trying to tell the rest of Europe that thay are not in trouble and that they are insulted that it is even suggested, to realise the game is up.
As regards Madrid airport... I'm sure the post about it being a world beater was posted by an IBERIA pilots granny, who believes the bull that her darling ,soon to be unemployed son, spins her. Anyone, even the plane spotters sat on the peri track, will tell you the truth. I dont need to repeat the observations already made, it's all true. That said, and controversially, the standard of ATC has improved immeasurably in the past six months. There are some pretty good people working there now, but its spoilt by the usless knobs that you still have there that could not get wet in a swimming pool. The ground situation is chaotic and you can spend 40 mins getting to the holding point due to not only incompetence, but bad design ( putting a holding point on a taxi way that everyone has to go past for another runway ).
As regards the closure of the base, this is very very sad. I'm not talking about the pilots so much here, but the cabin crew and office staff. Whilst it's true that the pilots have spent, in some cases, a lot of money moving here and have kids in schools etc, they will bounce back albeit worse off than before. We knew this was milk and honey and the sensible ones have been saving, not spending, for this day. However, I was in the meeting and went to work on the day of the announcement. The scences I witnessed amongst the local cabin crew were truly heart rending. For most of them, this was a good job amongst a world of unemployment that enabled them to not only live their lives but support family and friends less fortunate. They are devasted and face difficult decisions even with offers of jobs as they will not be in Spain. I have made good friends amongst them and am gutted for them.
I dont give a toss if some of what I've said offends, I've had a good time here and contributed significantly to the economy with my colleagues. Its due to the idiots in power in Spain, that now we are going. The effects will ripple out and Madrid will be all the worse for it.
As far as easy pulling out of Madrid is concerned, anyone with even one eye here will tell you it was only a matter of time... The post made at the begining of this thread was spot on with the reasons for easy pulling out. If you live here you see how inefficient the country is. At every level in all aspects of life here, you can see mind blowing wastes of resources and money. To be really blunt, the last ten years has been like watching kids who have broken into a bank spending the money on sweets. Yes , they have built roads and houses etc, but drive around and you spend all your time avoiding accidents due to the mindless road planners who must have just left school constructing a road system that a chimp could have done better with. There are countless half built estates, or even just the roads for estates littered around the periphery of Madrid, built by greedy cowboys who were throwing them up with cheap european bank loans. The toxic debts from insane homeowners who took out massive loans (400-600,000 euros for a two bedroom box flat ) who were earning 25,000 euros a year and now cant pay, are only the tip of the iceberg. Private debt is the elephant in the cupboard, when that starts to surface, the counrty will go into melt down. If you live here you know about the amazing debts run up by local potato farmers who became mayors of their town and spent 160 million euros on follies like a water purification plant
for a town of 10,000 people, or the Arts centre for 100 million euros that never got finished and now lies empty.
Easy went to the government at the highest level and almost begged them to do something about the insane charges at Barajas or face this pull out. Unfortunately for everyone here, the Spanish mentality is that they are never wrong and that putting your head deeper into the sand will make the problem go away! You only have to listen to the idiots in the government trying to tell the rest of Europe that thay are not in trouble and that they are insulted that it is even suggested, to realise the game is up.
As regards Madrid airport... I'm sure the post about it being a world beater was posted by an IBERIA pilots granny, who believes the bull that her darling ,soon to be unemployed son, spins her. Anyone, even the plane spotters sat on the peri track, will tell you the truth. I dont need to repeat the observations already made, it's all true. That said, and controversially, the standard of ATC has improved immeasurably in the past six months. There are some pretty good people working there now, but its spoilt by the usless knobs that you still have there that could not get wet in a swimming pool. The ground situation is chaotic and you can spend 40 mins getting to the holding point due to not only incompetence, but bad design ( putting a holding point on a taxi way that everyone has to go past for another runway ).
As regards the closure of the base, this is very very sad. I'm not talking about the pilots so much here, but the cabin crew and office staff. Whilst it's true that the pilots have spent, in some cases, a lot of money moving here and have kids in schools etc, they will bounce back albeit worse off than before. We knew this was milk and honey and the sensible ones have been saving, not spending, for this day. However, I was in the meeting and went to work on the day of the announcement. The scences I witnessed amongst the local cabin crew were truly heart rending. For most of them, this was a good job amongst a world of unemployment that enabled them to not only live their lives but support family and friends less fortunate. They are devasted and face difficult decisions even with offers of jobs as they will not be in Spain. I have made good friends amongst them and am gutted for them.
I dont give a toss if some of what I've said offends, I've had a good time here and contributed significantly to the economy with my colleagues. Its due to the idiots in power in Spain, that now we are going. The effects will ripple out and Madrid will be all the worse for it.
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Basic Service, good post. Sounds like one big mess.
Personally, I hate flying into Madrid.... I have only ever filed one MOR in 20 years and that was against their ATC. Things have since improved though.
I really feel sorry for those employed at the base, I wish them luck in the chaos which lies ahead...
Personally, I hate flying into Madrid.... I have only ever filed one MOR in 20 years and that was against their ATC. Things have since improved though.
I really feel sorry for those employed at the base, I wish them luck in the chaos which lies ahead...
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Now then
Dear all.
I've been here before.
Trust me I'm a pilot.
Take a wild guess what will happen to the flexi crew across the network.
Flexi was only taken on for this kind of eventuality, now if anyone thinks that they will get enough hours to survive winter think again. Remember flexi contractors few years back and how they were dropped when the summer was over? Flexi crew, The Greatest Social Dumping Scheme EVER!
It's already been discussed about 5 weeks ago at one of management meetings, how many will be let off this winter ( from horses mouth ).
Mr WB ( the pilot hater) was really in his element ,did you know his wife is top management at Parc aviation?. Small wander there are so many parc flexis here, conflict of interst? Of course not!
Just why so few flexis apply elsware ( ie BA or Monarch) I will never know.
Now are we all in it together?
Have we taken everyone on board?
Another great CEO.
I've been here before.
Trust me I'm a pilot.
Take a wild guess what will happen to the flexi crew across the network.
Flexi was only taken on for this kind of eventuality, now if anyone thinks that they will get enough hours to survive winter think again. Remember flexi contractors few years back and how they were dropped when the summer was over? Flexi crew, The Greatest Social Dumping Scheme EVER!
It's already been discussed about 5 weeks ago at one of management meetings, how many will be let off this winter ( from horses mouth ).
Mr WB ( the pilot hater) was really in his element ,did you know his wife is top management at Parc aviation?. Small wander there are so many parc flexis here, conflict of interst? Of course not!
Just why so few flexis apply elsware ( ie BA or Monarch) I will never know.
Now are we all in it together?
Have we taken everyone on board?
Another great CEO.
It's already been discussed about 5 weeks ago at one of management meetings, how many will be let off this winter ( from horses mouth )
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"Those taking type rating courses from about April onwards this year were doing so aware that they were only going to be flying for the summer and weren't being kept on over winter"
And what will they do after?
As I said
The Greatest Social Dumping Scheme Ever.
What will the others do , you know the ones who are not "aware", when they get rostered for 20h or less over winter. I've seen it in the past.
The whole thing is rotten.
BALPA, what bunch of jokers.
And what will they do after?
As I said
The Greatest Social Dumping Scheme Ever.
What will the others do , you know the ones who are not "aware", when they get rostered for 20h or less over winter. I've seen it in the past.
The whole thing is rotten.
BALPA, what bunch of jokers.
What will the others do , you know the ones who are not "aware", when they get rostered for 20h or less over winter.
The hours on flexi crew have been going down gradually for the last two years and I'd be surprised there is anyone who is not aware of how bad the winter can be given that most have just had a winter where some rosters have produced 1 standby for the month or a single 2 sector day.
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Those taking type rating courses from about April onwards this year were doing so aware that they were only going to be flying for the summer and weren't being kept on over winter.
It's like with private economy, you need to be responsible.
I do hope though, that the f/o's and flexi in MAD all will have the offer to go elsewhere in the network, and as I understood it they will.
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If that's true, then who is stupid - or rich - enough to go for a "deal" like that?
Arr, but you forget they have all been drip fed the line......." getting an airbus rating and some hours with EZY opens the doors..........airlines like BA, Virgin, emirates will be falling over each other to employ you" And yes, they truly believe it. Just have a look around the schools to see all the naive 19 y.o.s who genuinely believe BA and the likes are going to go down and recruit them.
The weak are 'easy' pray.....pun intended. No one ever forced them to sign on the dotted.
Last edited by VNAVPTH; 23rd Jun 2012 at 09:49.
Basic Service-a brilliant post- feel sad sad for the CC and office staff
The worst is yet to come in Spain I fear-how it will affect the uk is anyones guess!
Hope you get a job soon elsewhere
The worst is yet to come in Spain I fear-how it will affect the uk is anyones guess!
Hope you get a job soon elsewhere
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There were no flexi crew in Madrid, it is only in the UK and Germany now due to the various unions.
As for the dreams of the schools.. yes, it's stupid to think BA is going to want you, but don't forget that only a few years ago BA DID go down to the school and recruit people directly for the finished crop, as they had done for a number of years.
Sadly, the said schools still sell the product on this basis, even though its ancient history in aviation terms.
As for the dreams of the schools.. yes, it's stupid to think BA is going to want you, but don't forget that only a few years ago BA DID go down to the school and recruit people directly for the finished crop, as they had done for a number of years.
Sadly, the said schools still sell the product on this basis, even though its ancient history in aviation terms.