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BMI mainline pilots made redundant?

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BMI mainline pilots made redundant?

Old 16th Apr 2012, 20:16
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder if anyone from the BAcc would agree with that, or if it is just an easy get out?
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 20:51
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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'easy' because it is so credible?
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 21:04
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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...and back to the title of the thread!

What do the vociferous and accusatory voices here suggest that BA pilots could/would have done to prevent redundancies in bmi at this point? What would they do now?

Less finger pointing, more solutions.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 21:11
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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BA Pilots, nothing
BAcc lots, but you make people listen........
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 21:29
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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The BACC offered a compromise agreement? Really?
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 21:36
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Of course, if this was an option BA would have to offer it now, otherwise they could be failing in their obligations to explore every avenue to minimise redundancies. You can't change what's on offer just because the offer didn't come from the BACC, great though I'm sure they are.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 23:14
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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The BACC don't offer compromise agreements, they could merely propose one that might be acceptable to BA. BA are under no obligation to offer anything suggested by the BACC.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 07:45
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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red7 - having been to the briefing last week... we were told crew wont transfer across to Airways until the 4th moves across mid-to end of June...

surely training then wont start till June.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 07:58
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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There's been much talk about the BACC wanting to 'stick all BMI pilots at the bottom of the MSL', but that's not the whole story, is it? There were many protections which the BACC proposed that would have ensure BMI pilots quality of life was maintained on the A320.

Let's review what was likely to be agreed by the BACC:

Grandfather rights to A320 commands
Some sort of modified monthly bidding rights on the A320 based on BMI DOJ
Dead-man's-shoes access to A320 commands based on BMI captains retiring
Pay - to be negotiated between BMICC and BA (BA will not allow the BMI cost-base to increase)

The only time BMI pilots would feel the effect of being 'stuck at the the bottom of the MSL' is if they wanted to bid to other fleets. And that's the crux of the matter, isn't it? What and select group of BMI posters really want is carte blanche access to the entire BA long-haul network. That would be a massive windfall for them at the expense of BA pilots, and it isn't going to happen.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 09:13
  #110 (permalink)  

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Just a small point. No-one is 'stuck', i.e. fixed in place, at the bottom of the MSL. BA will inevitably recruit and at that point, pilots who have joined from BMI will no longer be at the bottom, just like everyone else who has joined.

Facts seem thin on the ground at the moment, don't they?
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 10:36
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Post 99 raised a valid point that has yet to be adressed. Has BA offered any relocation opportunity to those at MAN/BFS/EDI...to move to LHR in whatever capacity /seat/.Or is this an exact copy of the way BA treated the NCL/MAN based B734 pilots 20 years ago in the Dan-Air debacle who lost their jobs despite volunteering to move at their own expense to LGW.For the avoidance of doubt BALPA did nothing for the 186 DA Pilots who were NOT LGW B734 based and merely urged them to accept sums ranging from 1500-2500 per head. The involvement of the IPA/DAPAG resulted in a better outcome which cost BA 3M. It was only when BALPA realised that they were about to be embarrassed did they become involved and coordinate efforts with DAPAG to seek compensation for ther own members...many of whom were members of DAPAG.Whatever the outcome for BMI,the LHR jobs with BA will be secure and financially superior to those had the Company ceased trading...ask those who joined from City flyer in 2001. As I understand it the BMI pilots will be unfrozen and will be able to bid for a LH position as did those CFE joiners in 2001 who quickly moved to RHS B744.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 10:41
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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What and select group of BMI posters really want is carte blanche access to the entire BA long-haul network.
I don't.

I don't want to fly long haul. There. I've said it. And I'm sure there's many more like me. So you needn't worry about me wanting your precious long haul commands.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 10:49
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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So why don't you want a deal that keeps you on the A320 with grandfather rights to your command, your current pay scales and bidding rights proportional to your Bmi date of joining? Really, what's so unacceptable about that that you'd rather have your company council gamble with your jobs instead?
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 11:13
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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you'd rather have your company council gamble with your jobs instead
I don't believe they are gambling with our jobs. If you think having agreed to the BACC method of "integration" would have prevented the announcement of flight ops job losses, you are quite naive (and you call bmi pilots that). And this "I told you so" attitude that certain posters have is patronising and offensive. I didn't see anyone suggesting these particular cuts were coming before the announcement.

I am confident the bmi CC will achieve the best deal possible for members. I hope in a few months (weeks!) I am a BA pilot and recognised as such, and I'm sure we'll have a much stronger/more prosperous future together as one workforce in one airline.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 11:13
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Who says that any of the information about the bmi cc actions is true. They are trying their best to protect a wide variation of pilots at different points in their careers. They cannot represent all groups within the pilot community. Say they represent the position of relatively new FO's with the view of you keep your job, bottom of MSL and frozen on 320 for 5 years, no bid rights. This group would go ok I can do that, but is it fair that a captain on the A330 and a TRE get this too? I guess the cc are trying to secure a fair deal for the average pilot at bmi which should keep most happy. Give the cc a break they are professional pilots not negotiators.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 11:51
  #116 (permalink)  

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If you think having agreed to the BACC method of "integration" would have prevented the announcement of flight ops job losses, you are quite naive
We'll never know now, will we?

The BACC has a history of coming up with innovative deals. VR, for example, has been mentioned. It is my belief that the BACC in conjunction with the BMICC could have mitigated some of this.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 12:22
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Power-Attitude-Trim

I don't want to fly long haul. There. I've said it. And I'm sure there's many more like me. So you needn't worry about me wanting your precious long haul commands.
Excellent, problem solved. As long as you can get your 299 odd colleagues to agree to never bid off the A320 I'm sure BA pilots will welcome you all onto the BA MSL based on your BMI DOJ.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 13:27
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Say the BMI guys wouldn't join the same seniority list, what could be the consequences? British Airways express.....? feeder into Heathrow?
It has been said countless times already that the BACC have already agreed with BA that BMI will be incorporated into BA. The requirements for this (which have been met) were agreed with the IAG board.

If the BMI pilots are not on the BA MSL (unfortunately looking increasingly likely) they will be rostered as a separate group of pilots - they will not form a separate fleet/company. That group of pilots will not see any new members, it will slowly decrease in size with retirement of ex-BMI pilots.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 14:15
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Ba do not plan to keep 330 after the end of the summer season
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 16:01
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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So some pilots will still be part of a sub pilot group within British airways in 35-40 years time because that is how long it will take to clear up the mess. I don't care what happens ith seniority but all pilots should be on one MSL. Join at the bottom and work your way up without being penalised for the rest of your career sits better with me thn a sub group. Anyhow it's all been decided already
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