British Airways DEP Selection - THE lowdown Part 2

[Callsign Kilo]

Fair play, choclateracer; a rumour network it is. In the risk of not sounding 'precious' a massive amount of time and effort was invested by many a person during the DEP campaign. People travelled from all round the globe in the hope that they would earn the opportunity to fly for BA. As I'm sure you respect, it is still regarded as a career changing position. Despite the scattered updates from Cranebank, everything else with regard to position of those in the pool and in between assessment stages has been based on a multitude of heresay, second hand information and opinion. Now the official word is out and it appears you were bang on the money in your assessment. Cudos. However I wouldn't expect a genuine apology from Threethirty or anyone else for that matter.

Best of luck to you

[Mikehotel152]

Well I can't understand why chocolateracer is gloating over his rumours turning out as fact. This may be a rumour network but it is not a school playground.

Read back and you will see why those in the various holding patterns were a little peeved at the way DEP was handled.

As for future DEP, I can't really see why DEP would be needed unless rapid expansion is commenced at BA. And that's unlikely after they just got their fingers burned for a second time in five years.

If all these Hamble style cadets are so good, why not start the FPP now and keep it going? There is your annual, steady source of pilots willing to start on Pay Point 44 or 444 or whatever it will be in a few years time.

[Threethirty]

The others beat me to it chocalteracer, your info was spot on well done but perhaps in future when you next delight in giving out bad news, do it with a bit less smugness and gloating, or better yet wait for the people who's job it is to do it. All the best.

[Bengerman]

[quoteIf all these Hamble style cadets are so good, why not start the FPP now and keep it going? There is your annual, steady source of pilots willing to start on Pay Point 44 or 444 or whatever it will be in a few years time. ][/quote]

Reason is that BA like a spread of experience. If you put through 100 cadets a year then after 5 years you have filled the Airbus P2 seats with cadets, no experience from any other operator civil or military. BA will always have a requirement for DEP's when they have a requirement for more pilots.

PS. If Pay Point 44 is not to your liking look elsewhere!

[Mikehotel152]

Surely taking a few new pilots of the same level of experience each year means you are getting a spread over time. What's more, that spread is commensurate with age.

And in answer to the PS: I would be happy with pp44 now but not when I have 4000 hrs. If BA really cared about recruiting a broad range of age and experience they would reconsider the archaic seniority based on service and not experience payscale - which operates in no other industry.

However, it s their train set and I would have joined regardless. Just pointing out the obvious, of course.

[chocolateracer]

Originally Posted by "MikeHotel

If BA really cared about recruiting a broad range of age and experience they would reconsider the archaic seniority based on service and not experience payscale - which operates in no other industry.

However, it s their train set and I would have joined regardless. Just pointing out the obvious, of course.

An interesting point but that's never ever going to change. The name of the game at BA is to get in as early as possible.

[BerksFlyer]

What's talk of PP44 based upon and is it a likelihood? Has PP34 not been enough?

[bucket_and_spade]

Berksflyer,

There is no PP44. It is a fictional PP, the equivalent of which may or may not exist in the future!

People are referring to the general decline in Ts and Cs across the industry.

[Mikehotel152]

Yes, sorry, pp44 was merely a figment of my imagination.

[binsleepen]

Hi,

Just remember that in mid 2010 BA closed the hold pool saying that they could not see any recruitment needs for at least 18 months. 3 months later they re-opened DEP recruitment.

As I read the latest BA fleet bid results about 30 FOs will be leaving the 767 for other things. Although the fleet will slowly decline in number I don't think it is that quick as there are 21 B-767s and about 150 FO's on type. These places cannot be filled by cadets due to ETOPS experience rules. Where will the replacements come from????

All in my opinion and happy to be corrected.

Regards

[chocolateracer]

Originally Posted by binsleepen

Hi,

Just remember that in mid 2010 BA closed the hold pool saying that they could not see any recruitment needs for at least 18 months. 3 months later they re-opened DEP recruitment.

As I read the latest BA fleet bid results about 30 FOs will be leaving the 767 for other things. Although the fleet will slowly decline in number I don't think it is that quick as there are 21 B-767s and about 150 FO's on type. These places cannot be filled by cadets due to ETOPS experience rules. Where will the replacements come from????

All in my opinion and happy to be corrected.

Regards

A very good point.

Edited to say that those 767's pilots that have bid off won't be released to their new courses if they're needed on the 767. BA won't recruit if there's any surplus in the company (which there is now).

[Callsign Kilo]

The chance of DEP recruitment in 2013 is extremely unlikely.

I would suggest a surplus of Airbus pilots with the prerequisite hours for ETOPs could plug any gap if need be. This may also free limited space on the bus for FPP cadets. Either that or the arrival of the 787 mid year will start to replace the 767 frames.

I would add that my that it is my belief that the annual fleet bid, crew requirement and schedule analysis at BA is something that is reasonably accurate and holds a lot of stock. I believe the recruitment team would have been able to say with considerable conviction where everyone stands come 2013. It would be nice for them to be proven wrong though!

[Wirbelsturm]

Either that or the arrival of the 787 mid year will start to replace the 767 frames.

Midlife, Boeing sponsored, refit of the 767 will delay the rundown of the 767 fleet until at least 2017 IMHO. Add to that they BA has Roller power 767's there is considerable difficulty in offloading them to the third market.

IF slots are available I thinkl we will see the retention of the 767 for medium haul routes with flat beds and the exploritory routes (long/thin) will go to the 787.

There are more 777-300 orders in the pipeline I'm lead to believe.

DEP? Possibly, Balpa believe the A320 surplus will be gone within 6 months.

Again, all IMHO.

[Callsign Kilo]

I'll fly the 767. Not a problem.

Maybe the decision to retain the hold pool has a little substance? On the other hand it is probably best to put all this wishful thinking straight to bed now

[wiggy]

What is the current time to command in BA? Both A320 and 777/747 ?

747/747 - Currently 20 years('ish) from joining the company, and not much (if any) movement onto the 747 in the next year.

[Fiesler02]

Hi everyone!

Any news from the insiders when to expect recruitment to start again?

I have been left in this "limbo" with my application still reporting "submitted" and last HR email received more than a year ago

I really need some positive prospects but the truth also will work

Cheers

Fiesler

[WhyByFlier]

Disclaimer: I'm not in BA.

I've heard from several mates in BA - and this isn't an old wives tale or made up mates - who have told me that they have specifically spoken to people in recruitment (so now it's becoming a long communication chain - caution the chinese whispers) and the only recruitment for several years to come will be FPP. They have plenty of people they can move to long haul and the FPP has plenty of capacity to fill the short haul positions. To me this makes perfect sense and fits my expectations.

You're not in limbo I'm afraid.

[Wirbelsturm]

the only recruitment for several years to come will be FPP

I disagree with this. BA has always valued input from both cadets (FPP), the Military and DEP and I haven't seen any shift toward only FPP.

A singular input of inexperienced pilots over a protracted period produces seniority and experience problems over a lengthy period of time after the training is completed. That's why BA has always used DEP and Military to mix up the experience levels of FO's and Captains to maintain a mixed level of starting points and experience across the peer group.

I think you will find BA will continue with DEP for the foreseeable future.

[Cloud Bunny]

I think you will find BA will continue with DEP for the foreseeable future.

Any idea when?

[Wirbelsturm]

Any idea when?

Sadly no. My main interest has moved quite some time ago from 'former colleagues DEP entrance' to 'former colleagues sons/daughters FPP entrance'!

As with all things BA, wait and see. Suffice to say that the announcement of further 787 orders and the rumour of Boeing announcing the 777X could lead to some rapid recruitment requirements in the near to middle future.