British Airways DEP Selection - THE lowdown Part 2
Even seen from the inside I'd suggest the answer is a blindingly obvious: "nobody knows".....
Lots of opinions of course, e.g. the BMI deal is a good thing if expansion continues as planned, but OTOH if the state of the economy really bites forward bookings after the summer and as a consequence BA/IAG have second thoughts about their plans then the brakes will go on..and if past experience is anything to go by they will go on very suddenly.
It's a bit of a lottery so all I can say is good luck..........
Lots of opinions of course, e.g. the BMI deal is a good thing if expansion continues as planned, but OTOH if the state of the economy really bites forward bookings after the summer and as a consequence BA/IAG have second thoughts about their plans then the brakes will go on..and if past experience is anything to go by they will go on very suddenly.
It's a bit of a lottery so all I can say is good luck..........
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I'm starting to share the sentiments of 2whites2reds, unfortunately. As much as us 'poolers have tried to remain positive, it may just be a case of right place but wrong time? A formal decision is yet to be made, however with some pool members passing the 12 month mark, things look a bit bleak. The noises originating from Cranebank, although welcome, haven't exactly inspired confidence; as 2whites2reds suggests.
The FPP cadets will be ready mid-2013, and even if they are delayed, BA will be committed to getting these guys onboard. It would be a monumental disaster if the initial entrants to the FPP scheme were cut loose. Any aspirations for the future of the program would be completely tarnished. I don't understand why the Managed Path scheme has been re-opened, other than BA having a 'gentleman's agreement' with the MOD?? It still doesn't guarantee recruitment though, does it?
As wiggy says, 'nobody knows,' however I think the best that holdpoolers can hope for is a further extension. Alternatively 2008 will repeat itself
Cue heavy gloating from BlackandBrown!
The FPP cadets will be ready mid-2013, and even if they are delayed, BA will be committed to getting these guys onboard. It would be a monumental disaster if the initial entrants to the FPP scheme were cut loose. Any aspirations for the future of the program would be completely tarnished. I don't understand why the Managed Path scheme has been re-opened, other than BA having a 'gentleman's agreement' with the MOD?? It still doesn't guarantee recruitment though, does it?
As wiggy says, 'nobody knows,' however I think the best that holdpoolers can hope for is a further extension. Alternatively 2008 will repeat itself
Cue heavy gloating from BlackandBrown!
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 20th Jun 2012 at 19:45.
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Evening fellas..
Just a quick one regarding what you can expect at BA. Apologies if it/they has/have been answered elsewhere but couldnt find it, at least not what I would consider upto date. Will be applying soon but not in any hurry really so happy to play the waiting game for however long it takes for them to sort their plans out.
1. Fleet allocation? (Current A330 FO, 2500+ Jet) Any choice here or get what is given? My preference would be Northern based SH.
2. How much say do you get over your roster as way of days off if junior? SH/LH differences? Much choice of trips initially?
3. Total take home? Down route allowances etc? Understand the annual increments have recently decreased.
4. Anything else to note?
Thanks all.
Just a quick one regarding what you can expect at BA. Apologies if it/they has/have been answered elsewhere but couldnt find it, at least not what I would consider upto date. Will be applying soon but not in any hurry really so happy to play the waiting game for however long it takes for them to sort their plans out.
1. Fleet allocation? (Current A330 FO, 2500+ Jet) Any choice here or get what is given? My preference would be Northern based SH.
2. How much say do you get over your roster as way of days off if junior? SH/LH differences? Much choice of trips initially?
3. Total take home? Down route allowances etc? Understand the annual increments have recently decreased.
4. Anything else to note?
Thanks all.
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SAR59 I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee mate.
No gloating here callsign kilo. I'm NOT getting sucked into a debate on this however I strongly maintain my position on BA/IAG.
No gloating here callsign kilo. I'm NOT getting sucked into a debate on this however I strongly maintain my position on BA/IAG.
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As for FPP cadets, I believe the gist of what was told on recruitment days was that there could well be an indeterminable delay between end of training and TR. Equally, there could be no delay but either way no promises were made. Whether or not they will enter the hold pool equal with the current swimmers is anyone's guess. With longhaul growth planned for next summer (assuming Euro survives...) I hope for everyone's sakes that the recruitment wheel does have reason to pick-up again next Spring.
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SAR59 I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee mate.
Thanks for the help so far.
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As for FPP cadets, I believe the gist of what was told on recruitment days was that there could well be an indeterminable delay between end of training and TR. Equally, there could be no delay but either way no promises were made.
dont think it has hurt Lufthansas training reputation that they will keep pilots that went through their course waiting until they need them....
Last edited by Another; 21st Jun 2012 at 06:10.
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Can you please elaborate? I dont know too much about modern BA as I wasn't planning on coming back home any time soon but for an impending change of personal circumstances. Are there any Northern bases for anything? If not how would the the commuting typically go for someone relatively junior? i.e blocks of time off SH Vs LH?
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SAR - are you trolling? If your comments are to be believed, you won't make it past the interview as you don't know anything about the Company.
You will be required to work for the Company not the other way around!
In the unlikely event that you do your homework and get offered a position on a fleet. Your response should be: -
" Thanks very much, I really appreciate it AND I also realise that you can screw me around for the first 5 years but thats OK because it'll be worth it in the end"
I remember at the selection day years ago when I was chatting to an RAF VC10 pilot....he commented "Well if they don't offer me the -400 then I won't be coming here" .... guess what LOL
You will be required to work for the Company not the other way around!
In the unlikely event that you do your homework and get offered a position on a fleet. Your response should be: -
" Thanks very much, I really appreciate it AND I also realise that you can screw me around for the first 5 years but thats OK because it'll be worth it in the end"
I remember at the selection day years ago when I was chatting to an RAF VC10 pilot....he commented "Well if they don't offer me the -400 then I won't be coming here" .... guess what LOL
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SAR - are you trolling? If your comments are to be believed, you won't make it past the interview as you don't know anything about the Company.
Like I said, I dont know much about BA these days as I have done the expat thing for a very long time and due to family reasons I need to start planning to come back and I thought this was as good a place as any to start asking about what I could expect..
Many thanks for any help so far.
Last edited by SAR59; 21st Jun 2012 at 09:21.
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SAR - LHR is the northern base in BA! If you get offered DEP LH commuting from oop north is very do-able, but expect to use local B&Bs on occasion, particularly when junior as back-to-back trips are fairly common.
Commuting on shorthaul is a bigger pain in the backside. As a junior F/O your best bet would be to live reasonably close to the likes of MAN/NEW/LBA/GLA/EDI as the domestic shuttles with a staff ticket are the best way of getting to and from LHR for crews who live up there and commute down. Again you would need a regular crash pad near Heathrow or a good deal with a B&B to make it work. There are plenty of Northern commuters in BA, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Commuting on shorthaul is a bigger pain in the backside. As a junior F/O your best bet would be to live reasonably close to the likes of MAN/NEW/LBA/GLA/EDI as the domestic shuttles with a staff ticket are the best way of getting to and from LHR for crews who live up there and commute down. Again you would need a regular crash pad near Heathrow or a good deal with a B&B to make it work. There are plenty of Northern commuters in BA, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
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As I understand it the chronology of events will follow in roughly this way,
1. BA will firm up their route structure for winter '12/'13 and summer '13. Once this is complete they will know which aircraft will be flying which routes and therefore how many pilots they will need to man/woman those aircraft.
2. The first 787s and A380s arrive in the spring of next year so pilot on the present fleet will be moving across. There will also be vacancies created by promotions, sicknesses, pregnancies, people going part time and possibly the start soon of retirements.
3. Present pilots then have the opportunity to bid for those vacancies in the autumn. When they move they will then leave an empty slot behind them.
4. Only at this stage will BA know how many vacanies they have for external candidates and in what time scale. Obviously any vacancies arising prior to the FPPs finishing will need to be filled by DEPs and as has already been said, any med/long haul slots after this time will also require DEPs.
Hope this is some use.
Regards
1. BA will firm up their route structure for winter '12/'13 and summer '13. Once this is complete they will know which aircraft will be flying which routes and therefore how many pilots they will need to man/woman those aircraft.
2. The first 787s and A380s arrive in the spring of next year so pilot on the present fleet will be moving across. There will also be vacancies created by promotions, sicknesses, pregnancies, people going part time and possibly the start soon of retirements.
3. Present pilots then have the opportunity to bid for those vacancies in the autumn. When they move they will then leave an empty slot behind them.
4. Only at this stage will BA know how many vacanies they have for external candidates and in what time scale. Obviously any vacancies arising prior to the FPPs finishing will need to be filled by DEPs and as has already been said, any med/long haul slots after this time will also require DEPs.
Hope this is some use.
Regards
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Thanks for your thoughts binsleepin. As a holdpooler clearly I hope I will get the call. How likely is it that long haul positions will be offered in reality? Are there not a already large number of short haul guys who are awaiting a move to long haul?
I appreciate you don't have a crystal ball, but as an outsider I don't fully understand how fleet bidding works. Thanks.
I appreciate you don't have a crystal ball, but as an outsider I don't fully understand how fleet bidding works. Thanks.
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FLR,
There are alot of SH guys bidding for LH BUT that bid is only valid if the initial type freeze has been completed, the pilot holds an unfrozen ATPL and has completed requisit hours in BA. If BA require them desperately then they can be moved but then BA would be liable to the costs of the Type conversion to LH AND the cost of the DEP type convesrion to fill the SH slot.
DEP to LH requires the applicant to qualify for zero flight time training (ZFT) something the FPP applicant clearly are not. Also an unfrozen ATPL is required for all FO's as they operate as A/PIC when the Captain takes a rest break.
Therefore BA would prefer to DEP to a LH slot if the applicant is ZFT capable.
There are alot of SH guys bidding for LH BUT that bid is only valid if the initial type freeze has been completed, the pilot holds an unfrozen ATPL and has completed requisit hours in BA. If BA require them desperately then they can be moved but then BA would be liable to the costs of the Type conversion to LH AND the cost of the DEP type convesrion to fill the SH slot.
DEP to LH requires the applicant to qualify for zero flight time training (ZFT) something the FPP applicant clearly are not. Also an unfrozen ATPL is required for all FO's as they operate as A/PIC when the Captain takes a rest break.
Therefore BA would prefer to DEP to a LH slot if the applicant is ZFT capable.
Last edited by Wirbelsturm; 22nd Jun 2012 at 08:17.
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Over 150 SH F/O will be be available and entitled to a LH bid next year. (the end of their freeze period).
BA just asked for unpaid leave volunteers from the majority of fleets for Sept/Oct. The BMI integration has given BA an excess of pilots. For some reason, which I've yet to fathom, they had an absurd number of P1s for their operation. All of this needs to work through until external recruitment would open (IMHO).
BA just asked for unpaid leave volunteers from the majority of fleets for Sept/Oct. The BMI integration has given BA an excess of pilots. For some reason, which I've yet to fathom, they had an absurd number of P1s for their operation. All of this needs to work through until external recruitment would open (IMHO).