British Airways DEP Selection - THE lowdown Part 2
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experience does not give you the right to a job at BA.
Personally i congratulate BA on encouraging and helping young people into the business. Over the years BA has had considerable success in either sponsoring or assisting well selected enthusiastic young people to become pilots. Its a shame that other airlines do not see the benefits of this, instead they prey off the poor wannabies with pay to fly schemes etc
Personally i congratulate BA on encouraging and helping young people into the business. Over the years BA has had considerable success in either sponsoring or assisting well selected enthusiastic young people to become pilots. Its a shame that other airlines do not see the benefits of this, instead they prey off the poor wannabies with pay to fly schemes etc
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Bluepilot,
With respect, you are mixing apples with pears. Taking on cadets is one solution to a lack of bums on seats. Taking pilots with a little experience is another. The two are not incompatible. And when you have trumpeted a recruitment drive based on a mixture of the two, not to mention the military pilots they attempted to recruit, it is not fair to call it all off and then, when the dust settles, start recruiting only cadets as if those people waiting patiently in pools (or in between interviews) were never encouraged to apply and be interviewed or had their hopes raised.
With respect, you are mixing apples with pears. Taking on cadets is one solution to a lack of bums on seats. Taking pilots with a little experience is another. The two are not incompatible. And when you have trumpeted a recruitment drive based on a mixture of the two, not to mention the military pilots they attempted to recruit, it is not fair to call it all off and then, when the dust settles, start recruiting only cadets as if those people waiting patiently in pools (or in between interviews) were never encouraged to apply and be interviewed or had their hopes raised.
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Precisely Depone...
I don't know what it is about this industry that means that it is so different to every other. I don't think it's unreasonable that when you jump through a series of hoops that require huge effort and preparation, that there is a job at the end of it.
I don't know what it is about this industry that means that it is so different to every other. I don't think it's unreasonable that when you jump through a series of hoops that require huge effort and preparation, that there is a job at the end of it.
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Don't loose sight of what has happened here.
BA were specific that a place in their hold pool wasn't a contractual offer of employment. You only have to look to 2008 to observe that.
Every person that applied for a DEP position at BA did so before the bmi acquisition and pay point 2 were publicly conceived.
TUPE regulations have most probably left BA over-crewed. If they had their way BA would rather have offered contracts to hand selected, less expensive DEPs.
The FPP scheme was always going to feature highly or possibly even exclusively in any subsequent recruitment at BA.
Unfortunately, until you receive that contract, all you can do is hope that the immense level of effort and preparation that you dedicate to the process will bare fruit. The airline industry is a ****ty game and just because BA are regarded as a company of integrity doesn't make it any less ****tier. I too jumped through all the hoops and feel pretty convinced that nothing will come from it. You roll the dice, you take your chances. Maybe I'll have better luck in guessing six numbers tomorrow night?
BA were specific that a place in their hold pool wasn't a contractual offer of employment. You only have to look to 2008 to observe that.
Every person that applied for a DEP position at BA did so before the bmi acquisition and pay point 2 were publicly conceived.
TUPE regulations have most probably left BA over-crewed. If they had their way BA would rather have offered contracts to hand selected, less expensive DEPs.
The FPP scheme was always going to feature highly or possibly even exclusively in any subsequent recruitment at BA.
Unfortunately, until you receive that contract, all you can do is hope that the immense level of effort and preparation that you dedicate to the process will bare fruit. The airline industry is a ****ty game and just because BA are regarded as a company of integrity doesn't make it any less ****tier. I too jumped through all the hoops and feel pretty convinced that nothing will come from it. You roll the dice, you take your chances. Maybe I'll have better luck in guessing six numbers tomorrow night?
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 19th Oct 2012 at 20:48.
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In regard to DEP's being cheaper Callsign, may I suggest that the FPP wage is not too glamorous and in summary that may have something to do with our employment or lack thereof with aforesaid company?!
Callsign Kilo,
Of course you're correct, but leaving people in limbo with no communication for a year is an indefensible position. It matters not that BA find themselves over-crewed, nor that they have a long term plan to take carefully selected zero to hero cadets (we would all apply given the right credentials).
It would take 5 minutes to update their applicants to whom at the interview stage they held themselves out to be a cut above the rest, a more professional and caring company, an employer that values their employees as an asset.
If one assumes that the recruitment process, whether assessing DEPs or zero hour cadets, is indeed designed to find the 'right' candidates for BA's operation (future Captains no less), then those who meet the criteria ought to be treated with respect even if a job offer was not in fact made at the end of their selection due to large scale company issues.
The irony is that this behaviour would receive raised eyebrows at the BA personnel interview if it were used as an example of poor CRM. Of course, the recruitment team cannot be faulted, and they must be tearing out their hair!
Of course you're correct, but leaving people in limbo with no communication for a year is an indefensible position. It matters not that BA find themselves over-crewed, nor that they have a long term plan to take carefully selected zero to hero cadets (we would all apply given the right credentials).
It would take 5 minutes to update their applicants to whom at the interview stage they held themselves out to be a cut above the rest, a more professional and caring company, an employer that values their employees as an asset.
If one assumes that the recruitment process, whether assessing DEPs or zero hour cadets, is indeed designed to find the 'right' candidates for BA's operation (future Captains no less), then those who meet the criteria ought to be treated with respect even if a job offer was not in fact made at the end of their selection due to large scale company issues.
The irony is that this behaviour would receive raised eyebrows at the BA personnel interview if it were used as an example of poor CRM. Of course, the recruitment team cannot be faulted, and they must be tearing out their hair!
Last edited by Mikehotel152; 20th Oct 2012 at 09:10.
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In fairness to the recruitment team, those in the holdpool have been updated at a reasonable level throughout the past year. I couldn't speak for those sitting between day one and day two and was unaware of your predicament.
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 20th Oct 2012 at 09:52.
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Agreed Callsign Kilo..the recruitment team did the best they could considering the circumstances!
They don't deserve any blame but I will agree if the hold poolers are ditched its not a good advert to apply again. How many people have been dropped from hold pools since 2008??? Passing selection means nothing. It's like everything in aviation...right place right time!
They don't deserve any blame but I will agree if the hold poolers are ditched its not a good advert to apply again. How many people have been dropped from hold pools since 2008??? Passing selection means nothing. It's like everything in aviation...right place right time!
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I know for a fact that the recruitment team campaigned long and hard to retain those already selected but were over ruled by the HR department.
BA is an 'Ivory Tower' airline still in many respects/departmentd and the 'BA way' or, more truthfully, 'that's how we've always done it' mentality prevails in many cases.
I realise that this is of little comfort to those who have been messed about but I would certainly defend Lindsay and his team in this one. HR is another matter and I have discussed this at various levels, hopefully, seeding the idea of change in the future with those who have influence, especially with respect to Ex-Mil DEP's who have specific timescales to adhere to. As with all things BA don't expect changes quickly!
I see DEP recruiting coming up soon. It all depends on route re-structuring and aircraft procurement. As a mere line-swine I am not privvy to the management briefings but the promise of substantial expansion was sold at the recent BMI merger. There are not, currently, enough pilots in BA to cover a small, let alone medium size long haul expansion. It may take a year or so but BA will not only take FPP, they will always want to pad out experience with DEP's.
All IMHO of course!
BA is an 'Ivory Tower' airline still in many respects/departmentd and the 'BA way' or, more truthfully, 'that's how we've always done it' mentality prevails in many cases.
I realise that this is of little comfort to those who have been messed about but I would certainly defend Lindsay and his team in this one. HR is another matter and I have discussed this at various levels, hopefully, seeding the idea of change in the future with those who have influence, especially with respect to Ex-Mil DEP's who have specific timescales to adhere to. As with all things BA don't expect changes quickly!
I see DEP recruiting coming up soon. It all depends on route re-structuring and aircraft procurement. As a mere line-swine I am not privvy to the management briefings but the promise of substantial expansion was sold at the recent BMI merger. There are not, currently, enough pilots in BA to cover a small, let alone medium size long haul expansion. It may take a year or so but BA will not only take FPP, they will always want to pad out experience with DEP's.
All IMHO of course!
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I know for a fact that the recruitment team campaigned long and hard to retain those already selected but were over ruled by the HR department.
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Hot off the press!!!! Well some of it if not most of it has been said before but it's worth mentioning agin to show that the news is still current.
Chances of DEP recruitment in 2013 -> zero.
Future pilot programme launching in about 72 hours or roughly that time.
People in the hold pool will fall out and have to re-apply.
People in between day one and the sims -> not sure but more than likely after only a 12 month period will have to re-apply.
Hope this helps.
Chances of DEP recruitment in 2013 -> zero.
Future pilot programme launching in about 72 hours or roughly that time.
People in the hold pool will fall out and have to re-apply.
People in between day one and the sims -> not sure but more than likely after only a 12 month period will have to re-apply.
Hope this helps.
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You obviously don't know what you're talking about and get some sick pleasure out of dissapointing people. I'm waiting for stage 2 and have been for 14 months, get your facts straight before talking garbage!
Last edited by Threethirty; 28th Oct 2012 at 15:54.
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People in between day one and the sims -> not sure but more than likely after only a 12 month period will have to re-apply.
"More than likely".
Hardly a resounding positive fact post from me was it. Call me back in 4 months....
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If its not fact, refrain from stating it. Your comment and afterthought smacks of the fact that you have made them both up. You however appear to be correct about DEP recruitment in 2013 and it is fairly common knowledge that if you pass the 18 month mark from your sim you will drown in the pool.
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 28th Oct 2012 at 20:00.
It is remarkable that the only 'news' about a job application to a Legacy Airline should come from a chocolateracer. If the recruitment team member is happy to talk to this gentleman or lady, could they not let the applicants know in a more direct manner? Furthermore, if the news is negative, why the delay?
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Ladies/Gents,
Please think about how you're coming across on here when posting.
If I was giving "rumours" of a positive note you lot would be in a whirlwind of happiness to NEVER question my sources or motives for posting. Just think about that.
Probably because plans change or plans are more to the side of "unknown" thus rendering making a decision to release an update too difficult. I don't know why but one thing I do know is LC and his team aren't deliberately witholding information to be "nasty".
Please think about how you're coming across on here when posting.
If I was giving "rumours" of a positive note you lot would be in a whirlwind of happiness to NEVER question my sources or motives for posting. Just think about that.
If the recruitment team member is happy to talk to this gentleman or lady, could they not let the applicants know in a more direct manner? Furthermore, if the news is negative, why the delay?
With respect, I think you miss the point. We appreciate the hard work by the recruitment team and the dilemma faced by BA with regards future pilot recruitment.
A year ago the recruitment team were in regular contact despite the growing uncertainty that swallowing BMI would have on numbers. Indeed, they sent helpful, informative and friendly emails in the latter part of 2011 and early 2012, such that they lived up to the excellent reputation upon which BA retains so much goodwill from customers and staff alike.
Then all lines of communication went dead. No updates through the recruitment website. No response to perfectly polite emails seeking an update. Then on one hand we have 'news' from a variety of sources to say that all those in the hold pool and between interviews are, in effect, 'out', and on the other hand we have absolute silence from BA.
The point many are making, politely on here and rather more vigorously in private, is that the silence from BA is eating into the goodwill we all have for the company. This is very sad because all it would take is one email saying 'we appreciate your patience and have not forgotten you; your application is/is not dead. In all honestly, is that an unreasonable expectation when you consider how much contact we had with the recruitment team in the early days?
A year ago the recruitment team were in regular contact despite the growing uncertainty that swallowing BMI would have on numbers. Indeed, they sent helpful, informative and friendly emails in the latter part of 2011 and early 2012, such that they lived up to the excellent reputation upon which BA retains so much goodwill from customers and staff alike.
Then all lines of communication went dead. No updates through the recruitment website. No response to perfectly polite emails seeking an update. Then on one hand we have 'news' from a variety of sources to say that all those in the hold pool and between interviews are, in effect, 'out', and on the other hand we have absolute silence from BA.
The point many are making, politely on here and rather more vigorously in private, is that the silence from BA is eating into the goodwill we all have for the company. This is very sad because all it would take is one email saying 'we appreciate your patience and have not forgotten you; your application is/is not dead. In all honestly, is that an unreasonable expectation when you consider how much contact we had with the recruitment team in the early days?