Honesty re Easy Jet
Back in 2007 we had recommend a friend as an official leg up to join easyjet. I had mates in all sorts of airlines in the UK with their eyes wide shut, I was shouting "GET IN HERE NOW" you know how things change in Aviation. Some were clever enough to overcome the mighty fall to low cost and some were determined to keep their 30 hours a month golden days off and in some cases Pilots hat.
I wish we were taking on DE FOs with good and relevant experience but the sad reality of the situation is, If you have more than 1 hours flight time in your log book you are over qualified for almost every Jet Job going in the UK.
I wish we were taking on DE FOs with good and relevant experience but the sad reality of the situation is, If you have more than 1 hours flight time in your log book you are over qualified for almost every Jet Job going in the UK.
Narrow Runway - apologies, I thought you were someone else.
Your job sounds ideal. Can I PM you my CV?
Pizza Express - spot on. And as the gathering storm of Euro collapse and war with Iran darkens the only game in town is finding safe harbour.
Airlines will go bust in 2012.
WWW
Your job sounds ideal. Can I PM you my CV?
Pizza Express - spot on. And as the gathering storm of Euro collapse and war with Iran darkens the only game in town is finding safe harbour.
Airlines will go bust in 2012.
WWW
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WWW,
You're absolutely correct that airlines will fail this coming year.
One of the big problems that I see second/third "tier" airlines getting access to is aircraft financing. There is already a credit crunch of sorts here at present.
Only the most creditworthy of individuals and businesses will gain access to funding.
Ironically, there may have to be a slowdown in training for that very reason.
Safe flying :-)
You're absolutely correct that airlines will fail this coming year.
One of the big problems that I see second/third "tier" airlines getting access to is aircraft financing. There is already a credit crunch of sorts here at present.
Only the most creditworthy of individuals and businesses will gain access to funding.
Ironically, there may have to be a slowdown in training for that very reason.
Safe flying :-)
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I have to concur with the easyJet pilots contributing on here. I believe that easyJet is a good place to work right now, for all its faults, but I would be struggling to see a much better place to work in the UK, with the possible exception of BA. Even that option would depend on how old you are and how long you're willing to wait for promotion.
Regarding the risk in coming here as flexi crew pilots, I would have to agree that the days of quick commands are long gone. Nonetheless if I was a UK charter pilot right now I would be very worried about the future. EasyJet is not the best-paid airline around, but it is certainly one of the most secure. Right now that makes it an extremely attractive place to work. The other factor in the temporary contract argument is that if the background project works out, there is likely to be a substantial improvement in those terms and conditions. Most critical, there is likely to be a move towards permanent employment status much more easily that has been the case in the past. What that means in practice is that coming here on the temporary contract is no longer the risk it once was. The European economic situation is clearly very uncertain, and that could lead to significant difficulties for all our lives. I move away from easyJet would not seem very sensible to me.
Regarding the risk in coming here as flexi crew pilots, I would have to agree that the days of quick commands are long gone. Nonetheless if I was a UK charter pilot right now I would be very worried about the future. EasyJet is not the best-paid airline around, but it is certainly one of the most secure. Right now that makes it an extremely attractive place to work. The other factor in the temporary contract argument is that if the background project works out, there is likely to be a substantial improvement in those terms and conditions. Most critical, there is likely to be a move towards permanent employment status much more easily that has been the case in the past. What that means in practice is that coming here on the temporary contract is no longer the risk it once was. The European economic situation is clearly very uncertain, and that could lead to significant difficulties for all our lives. I move away from easyJet would not seem very sensible to me.
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I suspect the OP would be better off staying where he/she is, TCX, I would guess and keep everything crossed for the future. With so much seniority. its a hell of a lot to give up for alleged green pastures new. I have seen three past financial mishaps and have not jumped ship and having listened to those that have, it hasn't generally bought them more money or security, sometimes a command in the back of beyond. If you are in your twenties and are at the bottom of the list, different matter.
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MACDO
Fair point, but what good is seniority in a dead or dying airline?
Plenty of people have left good seniority in Charter and even legacies in order to seek out new pastures.
I'm one of them. Taken the redundancy cash twice and never looked back.
The key is to keep applying for anything that may be useful to you, no matter how unlikely the job offer may seem!
Fair point, but what good is seniority in a dead or dying airline?
Plenty of people have left good seniority in Charter and even legacies in order to seek out new pastures.
I'm one of them. Taken the redundancy cash twice and never looked back.
The key is to keep applying for anything that may be useful to you, no matter how unlikely the job offer may seem!
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Whilst I agree with most of what has been said above. I think there is a not so pleasant side to easy that is being skimmed over here. Would some of the FOs who were forced to go bankrupt due to flexicrew care to comment?
As far as I know the flexi guys have no BALPA recognition putting them in a very difficult position regarding forced base transfers at short notice or changes to working conditions.
My 2p worth!
As far as I know the flexi guys have no BALPA recognition putting them in a very difficult position regarding forced base transfers at short notice or changes to working conditions.
My 2p worth!
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MACDO
Forgive me, I'm not insinuating that TCX is dead - or dying.
But from a career point of view, I realised it had no attraction in 2006 after 6 years service.
I can't see it being any better now. In fact, one of my best friends is being demoted after 13 years service. And he waited 11 of those for his Command anyway.
Good luck in 2012, I really hope it's better than the last few you've all had.
Happy New Year and safe flights.
But from a career point of view, I realised it had no attraction in 2006 after 6 years service.
I can't see it being any better now. In fact, one of my best friends is being demoted after 13 years service. And he waited 11 of those for his Command anyway.
Good luck in 2012, I really hope it's better than the last few you've all had.
Happy New Year and safe flights.
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Many Thanks for the interesting reading ,one of you is correct re my employer !
One thing that strikes me is a point in the last comment about a 2 yr capt being demoted after 13 yrs of service,not too sure where your friend sits but that may not be accurate, things are not set in stone just yet .
Although its a dire situation at the minute for us( its been on the cards since the fateful day in 2008 as far as many are concerned),we have to keep going, for some we cannot or indeed want to venture out of the UK
Fingers crossed for us all, hold on tight I think 2012 will be the toughest yet
One thing that strikes me is a point in the last comment about a 2 yr capt being demoted after 13 yrs of service,not too sure where your friend sits but that may not be accurate, things are not set in stone just yet .
Although its a dire situation at the minute for us( its been on the cards since the fateful day in 2008 as far as many are concerned),we have to keep going, for some we cannot or indeed want to venture out of the UK
Fingers crossed for us all, hold on tight I think 2012 will be the toughest yet
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Cayotcas,
He's definitely being demoted. At least that was the last I heard 10 days ago.
I don't think he even had the luxury of moving bases to keep his Command.
A great shame. Someone, somewhere in TCG didn't have their eyes on the ball.
Good luck for 2012 and beyond.
He's definitely being demoted. At least that was the last I heard 10 days ago.
I don't think he even had the luxury of moving bases to keep his Command.
A great shame. Someone, somewhere in TCG didn't have their eyes on the ball.
Good luck for 2012 and beyond.
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I think there is still some hope from the info I have as of two days ago ,BUT we shall see, Im sure I know him and I do feel for everyone inc the cabin crew , Office Staff etc,we are losing very very good people and we are demoralising many more who stay .
The general fear is, People Displaced,People Demoted,People NEVER going to see career progression = difficult working conditions!
After all, we have staff numbers and the "personal touch" ship sailed a long time ago .
All The Best To You Too
The general fear is, People Displaced,People Demoted,People NEVER going to see career progression = difficult working conditions!
After all, we have staff numbers and the "personal touch" ship sailed a long time ago .
All The Best To You Too
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And all the best to you too for the coming alarming year!
WRT the demotion issue, its worth pointing out that the balls will all be thrown into the air again in mid Jan and depending on how many have gone for the 'pastures new' option, then we will have the true final figure for demotions etc.
The real worry is when expansion will occur to allow re-promotion and new command upgrades to come along.
see ' Iv'e been an FO for 13 years and I've had enough' thread a bit further down.
My crystal ball reckons I'll still be having this discussion in 12 months time, but then again.......
WRT the demotion issue, its worth pointing out that the balls will all be thrown into the air again in mid Jan and depending on how many have gone for the 'pastures new' option, then we will have the true final figure for demotions etc.
The real worry is when expansion will occur to allow re-promotion and new command upgrades to come along.
see ' Iv'e been an FO for 13 years and I've had enough' thread a bit further down.
My crystal ball reckons I'll still be having this discussion in 12 months time, but then again.......
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Clearly the TCX situation is a worry to many, and who can blame them for their concerns? Frankly, if I was an FO there and had a chance of a temporary contract with easyJet, I would probably take it right now. None of us have total insight into the future, but my own personal belief is that every single FO who takes a job with us under the 'flexicrew' scheme will be offered a permanent contact within 18 months. That is not guaranteed, but it is a whole lot more guaranteed than the future of Thomas Cook, sadly. That is not to speak ill of the company, who I genuinely wish great success to, but it is an observation of how things look right now. They make pull the cat out of the bag, but I would not want to bet on it. There are many people who deride easyJet, and it undoubtedly has both good and bad points. Nonetheless, apart from BA, right now I cannot think of a place I would sooner be from a job-security perspective - you really could do a whole lot worse.
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Alexander, would you though?
There you are, in base of your choice, close to home and kin, 10 years from the bottom of the list in a Unionised airline with a LIFO agreement in place, earning great money(by modern standards (17 pay increments since DOJ)), with a massive benefits package (by modern standards) possibly even flying a nice bit Long Haul, which although mostly bullets, is to nice(ish) places without massive timezone changes, the possibility of interesting secondments each winter, with a management that are reasonable to deal with and largely let you alone, with an excellent training department who actually try to teach you something in the sim, pro-active safety and brilliant crew food, actually that last bits a lie!!!
Seriously, you'd give that up to go Flexi, working you're todger off 365 days a year for the rest of your days. Yes, in the face of redundancy I'd grab it like anything else, but they'll have to drag me away kicking and screaming from my cozy little job at TCX. Aged 25, single with 100k of debt round my neck, its a different answer.
ps, the airline actually makes money and is not a problem, all the issues are with the UK tour operator.
There you are, in base of your choice, close to home and kin, 10 years from the bottom of the list in a Unionised airline with a LIFO agreement in place, earning great money(by modern standards (17 pay increments since DOJ)), with a massive benefits package (by modern standards) possibly even flying a nice bit Long Haul, which although mostly bullets, is to nice(ish) places without massive timezone changes, the possibility of interesting secondments each winter, with a management that are reasonable to deal with and largely let you alone, with an excellent training department who actually try to teach you something in the sim, pro-active safety and brilliant crew food, actually that last bits a lie!!!
Seriously, you'd give that up to go Flexi, working you're todger off 365 days a year for the rest of your days. Yes, in the face of redundancy I'd grab it like anything else, but they'll have to drag me away kicking and screaming from my cozy little job at TCX. Aged 25, single with 100k of debt round my neck, its a different answer.
ps, the airline actually makes money and is not a problem, all the issues are with the UK tour operator.
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Dunno about working your todger off. For me, 750 hours/1350 duty hours in 2011.
These days I'd say job security is just about top of the list. You don't get crew food on the dole.
These days I'd say job security is just about top of the list. You don't get crew food on the dole.
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I work for TCX and won't be leaving any time soon - for all of the reasons put forward by macdo. I am very pleased, however, that my son has a permanent contract with EasyJet. It is just a shame that they treat their cadets so badly!
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Sorry, don't mis-understand my position, I'm certainly not slagging off Easy or its staff, or even the lifestyle if it suits. My only point is that anyone thinking of bailing out should seriously look at what they are getting into before they jump, like I said, if you're 25 its a different can of beanz! For me 750hrs and 1350 sh duty days would lend even greater weight to staying where I am. You don't need crew food when you are in an early grave either.(meant light heartedly)
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Macdo
I echo your thoughts entirely we know where we stand and, on the face of it (fingers tightly crossed here) things will not get much worse (thoughts on the pay rise aside)
We've all flown with guys who have known the darker side of previous employers, and the career path we've chosen is littered with ups and downs,
With respect to anyone outside of our current situation the media and rumour control are making it seem like we are doomed .
Time will tell and it seems as long as I've been involved in aviation someone somewhere is about to fail
We are all in the same boat ,some have lifejackets,some are looking for lifejackets!!!
I suspect like most here we chose to work for who we work for,it's still a better job than many until I win the lottery it will do for me !!!
All the best .
I echo your thoughts entirely we know where we stand and, on the face of it (fingers tightly crossed here) things will not get much worse (thoughts on the pay rise aside)
We've all flown with guys who have known the darker side of previous employers, and the career path we've chosen is littered with ups and downs,
With respect to anyone outside of our current situation the media and rumour control are making it seem like we are doomed .
Time will tell and it seems as long as I've been involved in aviation someone somewhere is about to fail
We are all in the same boat ,some have lifejackets,some are looking for lifejackets!!!
I suspect like most here we chose to work for who we work for,it's still a better job than many until I win the lottery it will do for me !!!
All the best .