13 years as F/O !! I´ve had enough.
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13 years as F/O !! I´ve had enough.
Hello everyone !
I´ve been working for the same airline for the last 8 years ( 5 years
with my previous one) and things are not looking good at the moment.
My company is downsizing and their plan is to let go about 70 pilots.
I was relatively close to a promotion but I now I would be looking at a
loooong wait. I´ve been flying the A330 for the past 5 years and the B737
before that.
Even though I´m quite happy in my company.I´ve decided that I have to jump ship if I ever want to be on the left seat.
I have about 8.500hrs on jet ( all RHS ) and would like to find an airline
that is upgrading experienced F/O´s. I´m not hoping to be upgraded on
a widebody ( that would be asking too much I guess ) but on A320 or B737.
I would be willing to go pretty much anywhere to get the magic 500 - 1500hrs
PIC time. I hold a JAA-ATPL & an FAA-CPL ( Multi,IFR )
As I never thought this time would come ( leaving my present co. ), I´m
totally disconnected with the job-market.
Does someone know of any such airline? Can anyone point me in the right
direction as where to look ?? I have searched in several jop-portals but didn´t
find the possibility of going to the LHS without PIC hrs.
Any input or suggestion is welcomed.
Thank you very much for your time.
I´ve been working for the same airline for the last 8 years ( 5 years
with my previous one) and things are not looking good at the moment.
My company is downsizing and their plan is to let go about 70 pilots.
I was relatively close to a promotion but I now I would be looking at a
loooong wait. I´ve been flying the A330 for the past 5 years and the B737
before that.
Even though I´m quite happy in my company.I´ve decided that I have to jump ship if I ever want to be on the left seat.
I have about 8.500hrs on jet ( all RHS ) and would like to find an airline
that is upgrading experienced F/O´s. I´m not hoping to be upgraded on
a widebody ( that would be asking too much I guess ) but on A320 or B737.
I would be willing to go pretty much anywhere to get the magic 500 - 1500hrs
PIC time. I hold a JAA-ATPL & an FAA-CPL ( Multi,IFR )
As I never thought this time would come ( leaving my present co. ), I´m
totally disconnected with the job-market.
Does someone know of any such airline? Can anyone point me in the right
direction as where to look ?? I have searched in several jop-portals but didn´t
find the possibility of going to the LHS without PIC hrs.
Any input or suggestion is welcomed.
Thank you very much for your time.
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The question is, do you really want to leave a probably good FO Job for a bad CPT Job?
One of the few possibilities could be WIZZ Air. If you want to join a company like WIZZ Air and being based in east europe, than go for it.
If not, stay where you are.
Keep in mind, someone could promise you an upgrade, but it does not mean that it will really happen and in the end you could still fail.
Or as mentioned, you give yourself an other 3-5 years and move to the ME, if you like to live there.
Beeing a CPT makes life in a cockpit nice, but its not everything, specially when you have to change your whole life.
One of the few possibilities could be WIZZ Air. If you want to join a company like WIZZ Air and being based in east europe, than go for it.
If not, stay where you are.
Keep in mind, someone could promise you an upgrade, but it does not mean that it will really happen and in the end you could still fail.
Or as mentioned, you give yourself an other 3-5 years and move to the ME, if you like to live there.
Beeing a CPT makes life in a cockpit nice, but its not everything, specially when you have to change your whole life.
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No chance of quick command at Easyjet Switzerland am afraid. Geneva and Basel are saturated with no room for expansion. Only opening a Zurich base would offer quick commands, and that seems unlikely. Is a dead mans shoes game now, with most of the captains under 50 comfortably.
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Go to the backwaters of Asia or Africa or even the sand pit. After our '89 debacle, some of our f/os went to those shores, worked some magic and miraculously got command at KAL as A300-600 and B747 skippers! I don't know how they did it, but it is a miraculous route to captaincy!
Seriously....try Air Asia. A few f/os with high hours have attain command their. As for the sandpit, a 3-5 stint at EY as f/o will offer you a chance to smell upgrade to command. Or wait for EK to revive their accelerated command programme.
Seriously....try Air Asia. A few f/os with high hours have attain command their. As for the sandpit, a 3-5 stint at EY as f/o will offer you a chance to smell upgrade to command. Or wait for EK to revive their accelerated command programme.
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I have friends who waited 18 years for the upgrading (all the Swissair guys).
Seriously, being captain is far overrated. If you are happy, have a happy social life as a local FO, never change your job just because you want those four stripes. Money would be a valid reason, but not the rank. Being FO is quite cool. I would change my job any time if I would have my life style.
Dani
(Capt hrs: 9000, FO hrs: 2500)
Seriously, being captain is far overrated. If you are happy, have a happy social life as a local FO, never change your job just because you want those four stripes. Money would be a valid reason, but not the rank. Being FO is quite cool. I would change my job any time if I would have my life style.
Dani
(Capt hrs: 9000, FO hrs: 2500)
Last edited by Dani; 22nd Nov 2011 at 17:12.
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I totally agree with DANI, 8 years in an airline is nothing and you would be crazy to move if you are happy with the airline in General. Being a Captain is not all it is cracked up to be, honestly I have seriously considered leaving my current gig to go back in the right hand seat for a bigger legacy carrier. Only real reason for the upgrade is better pay, but the responsibility that goes with it is enormous. Don't move purely for the command, the quality of the company is far more important.
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I'm an FO on 330 for Dragon working part time month on/off + 1 leave
I make more money by a large margin than a full time Captain @ Air Asia.
Why would I go somewhere to work more and get less.
Sometimes, you just need to relax, stop chasing the Tiger.. Enjoy.
TT: 8800hrs
PIC: 4200
FO: 4600
Its all about money and lifestyle.
I make more money by a large margin than a full time Captain @ Air Asia.
Why would I go somewhere to work more and get less.
Sometimes, you just need to relax, stop chasing the Tiger.. Enjoy.
TT: 8800hrs
PIC: 4200
FO: 4600
Its all about money and lifestyle.
Think carefully before leaving an airline which you like anyway.
Bas - (Short version):
Merchant Navy: Resigned. Good decision
RAF: Resigned. Good decision.
Big Airline. 18yrs to command; stayed. Good decision.
If that sounds a bit self congratulatory it's because I missed out the bad decisions
Bas - (Short version):
Merchant Navy: Resigned. Good decision
RAF: Resigned. Good decision.
Big Airline. 18yrs to command; stayed. Good decision.
If that sounds a bit self congratulatory it's because I missed out the bad decisions
And if you do go to Emirates drop the poor bugger me routine. In some countries with broad aviation industries (ie USA/Australia/NZ) it takes you 10 years to GET INTO an airline. So bitching that you have been a FO for 13 years after your first job was on a jet won't get alot of sympathy.........just a tip.
On saying that if you can handle the heat (literally!) it is all happening over at Qatar Airways if a smaller outfit is more your style. Shouldn't take to long to get a A320 command.
On saying that if you can handle the heat (literally!) it is all happening over at Qatar Airways if a smaller outfit is more your style. Shouldn't take to long to get a A320 command.
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Only jump ship if your life is intolerable. Being on the bottom of a seniority list is not a happy place at the moment. But, if you really must, I'd look (with eyes wide open) at Emirates.
Está servira para distraerle.
Right now is not a good time to be either a saver or at the bottom of anyone's seniority list. If you're quite happy where you are, which you say you are, then button down the hatches and ride out the storm. It's going to take at least five years before economies really crank up again. In the meantime, the job's the thing. All those 70 pilots junior to you that your company will be letting go will be competing with you on the open job market too? If you don't jump ship, you've a chance of the LHS with your present company sometime and age might not be a consideration for them since you would be a known quantity.
Did 20 years RHS, turned down command and flying a "royal" aircraft after 8 years.
Only flew in command for 2 years before I lost my medical but have been EXTREMELY well looked after by my last employer.
Whilst being a captain is easier than working in the RHS (and less fun) the important bit is life style and the people you work with.
Also very important is the effect on your family.
I left my first employer because I detested management - we crashed 8 aircraft in my six years - now that would be a good reason to leave!
Only flew in command for 2 years before I lost my medical but have been EXTREMELY well looked after by my last employer.
Whilst being a captain is easier than working in the RHS (and less fun) the important bit is life style and the people you work with.
Also very important is the effect on your family.
I left my first employer because I detested management - we crashed 8 aircraft in my six years - now that would be a good reason to leave!
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13 years?
I've been waiting for nearly 16 years and will probably wait a lot longer yet. Command is basically luck and timing (ability being taken as a given). An ill advised move, a couple of redundancies and you can easily spend your life in the RHS.
Don't move company to chase command. What is promised at an interview is exactly that, a promise and nothing more. If you enjoy your job then stay with it would be my advice. I moved once on the promise of the LHS and got made redundant instead. At the age of 50 with no LHS time and not enough hours on type to be considered by other operators and my "useful" ratings all out of recency. Not a nice position back then and probably fatal under the current circumstances
I consider myself lucky to have found another position that I enjoy with a reasonably enlightened employer. I hope to have a go on the other side of the flight deck before I retire but it may never happen. At least I can pay the bills in the meantime and have a home life that I don't spend totally prostrate with fatigue.
Just my experience. Others seem to breeze through and have commands everywhere they go. Good luck.
I've been waiting for nearly 16 years and will probably wait a lot longer yet. Command is basically luck and timing (ability being taken as a given). An ill advised move, a couple of redundancies and you can easily spend your life in the RHS.
Don't move company to chase command. What is promised at an interview is exactly that, a promise and nothing more. If you enjoy your job then stay with it would be my advice. I moved once on the promise of the LHS and got made redundant instead. At the age of 50 with no LHS time and not enough hours on type to be considered by other operators and my "useful" ratings all out of recency. Not a nice position back then and probably fatal under the current circumstances
I consider myself lucky to have found another position that I enjoy with a reasonably enlightened employer. I hope to have a go on the other side of the flight deck before I retire but it may never happen. At least I can pay the bills in the meantime and have a home life that I don't spend totally prostrate with fatigue.
Just my experience. Others seem to breeze through and have commands everywhere they go. Good luck.
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Patience
I can certainly sympathise with you mate, its a long time indeed.
However Neville Nobody has a very valid point. In NZ and Aussie, it is often a long wait. A good mate of mine recently joined Jetstar in the right seat, well over 2000hours for that spot, took him 5 or so years to get there, and he was utterly committed to doing just that. In fact, i can't think of to many kiwis who have done it quicker.
Add to that your licence type, and well the world is your oyster so to say. For me to convert to JAA ill need to spend around $20,000NZ! That's cash I'm not likely to have for a while. And i have 8 times as many hours as many Euro F/Os.
Just relax and be rational, do not be in a rush.
Or head out to Asia.
Good luck
However Neville Nobody has a very valid point. In NZ and Aussie, it is often a long wait. A good mate of mine recently joined Jetstar in the right seat, well over 2000hours for that spot, took him 5 or so years to get there, and he was utterly committed to doing just that. In fact, i can't think of to many kiwis who have done it quicker.
Add to that your licence type, and well the world is your oyster so to say. For me to convert to JAA ill need to spend around $20,000NZ! That's cash I'm not likely to have for a while.
And i have 8 times as many hours as many Euro F/Os.Just relax and be rational, do not be in a rush.
Or head out to Asia.
Good luck