EASA unfreezing ATPL rule changes

[Full Left Rudder]

There is a rumour going around my company that once EASA comes in next April there will be a change to the rules regarding unfreezing ATPLs. Supposedly, you will only be able to unfreeze the license when the company you work for requires you to upgrade to captain.

I have researched the web thoroughly for info on this, but as per most things EASA it is less than clear.

Has anyone heard/know anything about this?

Am hoping it is a false rumour that has got out of control.

Cheers.

[silverknapper]

Sounds a weird one to me. What if the candidate worked at BA for example and wasn't required to upgrade for 15 years? Would said candidate still have a blue book with 10k hours on heavy jets? Mind you knowing EASA........

I would find it more reassuring it it was a change to reflect the new MPL. For example before being issued an ATPL said candidate has to actually log some pic time to get a basic grasp of how it feels before being turned loose on the left seat of a large public transport aircraft.

[wind check]

Maybe in Ryanair, so they'll keep more 2stripers on the boat.

[Mikehotel152]

I think other Airlines would just take frozen ATPL holders and unfreeze them at next LPC. No problem. Surely?

[Full Left Rudder]

That's my hoping..... But of course if the rumour is true they won't be able to give me an ATPL after EASA comes in.......

[inbalance]

For what do you need to unfreeze your ATPL when you are not flying as a Captain ?

[Full Left Rudder]

To fly long haul as 'acting pilot in command' whilst the captain is in the bunk.

Also, although this is not my circumstance, for finding a job in Asia for example, where they will not necessarily be as clued in with EASA rules. If they see a guy with over the usual 1500 hours and no ATPL they would most probably start asking why......

[Mikehotel152]

The rule is slightly mad. We're already facing a chicken and egg scenario vis-a-vis P1 time for use with unfreezing an ATPL.

Pray tell, if this is no longer allowed by EASA, where are Captains of the future going to come from? As for FR, you need an unfrozen ATPL to get to the senior FO payscale!

[Globally Challenged]

A bit useless for freelancers

Edit to add - as far as the UK CAA is concerned:
Requirements: a) 500 hrs PICUS OR;
b) 250 hrs PIC OR;
c) 250 hrs incl 70+ hrs PIC and the rest PICUS
Notes: SPIC counts to a maximum of 50hrs PIC for ATPL issue

SPIC being peculiar to some elements of Integrated courses

[seasexsun]

The Spanish DGAC applies EASA rules.

To get an ATPL in Spain you need to do the full test on the Left hand seat NOT on the right hand seat.

[Denti]

EASA rules are not out yet, so they cannot apply them, it is just a national thing right now. However, even JAR-FCL does provide for different type ratings (COP/PIC and PIC over FL200) and some european countries use those. Germany for example, and i guess spain as well and they put it into the ATPL thing too.

[wind check]

As for FR, you need an unfrozen ATPL to get to the senior FO payscale!

Wooo OH OH

[Full Left Rudder]

Thanks for the inputs guys.

So, clear as mud then........

My worry is that my current company won't authorise my, and any other FOs, to do a skills test for the ATPL. I fear they are employing delaying tactics until the EASA rule change makes it a permanent no go.

I don't want to be stuck working there forever as without an ATPL it rules out Emirates etc etc.

Am considering doing the license test in my own time. Just trying to work out if I would be wasting my money.

[Wing_Bound_Vortex]

If you meet all the requirements and your company is playing hard ball do it in your own time with a friendly TRE, it will be worth it in the long run especially if it affects pay scales and the like at your current company. Shouldn't cost more than a few 00's each with another like minded F/0 and a present for the TRE!

Many have before!

WBV

[victorc10]

Wind check you are quite incorrect, the higher pay scale is based on hours alone and have nothing to do with the unfeezing of ATPL.

I don't work for them anymore but know many people who do, please try and post correct information, otherwise what is the point in posting at all.

Cheers,

Victor

[Full Left Rudder]

I appreciate the input guys.

Has anyone actually heard this rumour elsewhere though? Or is it just being dreamed up at my company?

[Denti]

Haven't had time to do it myself, however, EASA has drafts and discussions about draft in the open, so just check their website about the relevant NPA to OPS FCL and comments as well as their counter-comments to it. If it is to be published next year with the rest of EASA OPS it is now in the final phase after consultation has been done. Most of the information is in the open, the rest can be acquired via your union contacts at ECA.

[Avenger]

As you say, this is a Rumour dreamed up within your Company, I have not heard this anywhere and I doubt we will.
Normally to undertake an upgrade to LHS the candidate requires the ATPL before the start of the course.
As mentioned, some authorities alreday have PIC ratings endorsed after the LHS check, Spain, Austria for instance, but this has nothing to do with ATPL issue.
I really would not concern yourselves with this " Rumour"

[Mikehotel152]

please try and post correct information

Sorry victorc10, that was my fault. Wind Check had quoted my post where I was wrong. The FR payrise is on 1500 hrs on type and is not related to the unfreezing of the ATPL.

[ssschmokin1]

and as of when I left (woohoo!!!) a few months ago, there was no SFO paygrade, it having been abolished two or three years back in a very dodgy pay settlement where captains (the majority) had voted in a pay cut for retained F/Os (the minority), to secure a couple of quid per hour rise for themselves.

This meant the highest F/O basic was pegged at around the 30k per year mark. I now understand that the company offer European F/O contracts at 28k euro basic.

Get out while the going is good, lads!!!