job references
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Land of Ice and Fire
job references
Letīs say you have a job offer and a contract. Letīs say you are requested to show up for company intro on a date and that you receive a roster for the next three months. Letīs say just 3 days beforehand, you are told that a "negative reference" has resulted in the employer changing itīs mind and the job is no longer yours.
Isnīt it reasonable that the source and the (mis)information be made available for a response, defence, explanation, rebuttal or something? It seems like something out of the Middle Ages, that one can be accused by Mr Anonymous of a secret crime and have no chance of defence....and told that the pile of positive references are "probably friends of yours" and therefore value-less.....
...or am I being unreasonable? As this has been passed to the agency that recruited, although again without details, it impacts more than the actual job (good heads up, as I donīt think I would get on with people like this) not to mention saying no to a 2 month free-lance contract, as I was starting a permanent job!
Legal recourse? (UK)
Isnīt it reasonable that the source and the (mis)information be made available for a response, defence, explanation, rebuttal or something? It seems like something out of the Middle Ages, that one can be accused by Mr Anonymous of a secret crime and have no chance of defence....and told that the pile of positive references are "probably friends of yours" and therefore value-less.....
...or am I being unreasonable? As this has been passed to the agency that recruited, although again without details, it impacts more than the actual job (good heads up, as I donīt think I would get on with people like this) not to mention saying no to a 2 month free-lance contract, as I was starting a permanent job!
Legal recourse? (UK)
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
In the UK, start with the data. Go to the ICO website and read the stuff about data protection and subject access requests.
Then, launch your subject access requests against all involved - the issuer of the dodgy ref., and the agencies, and the employers.
They have limited time to reply, but don't expect instant replies.
Get everything that has been said in writing.
Then, launch your subject access requests against all involved - the issuer of the dodgy ref., and the agencies, and the employers.
They have limited time to reply, but don't expect instant replies.
Get everything that has been said in writing.
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: closer to hell
You said you had a job offer AND a contract. Why would they give a contract prior to them contacting referees if the reference check was going to be used to make the decision?
Professional Referees/References are valuable to you.
Referees are to confirm the decision made by the recuitment process, not to make the decision. No one would name a referee that is going to say something bad about them.
Organisations/Recruitment Agents that demand 3 referees upon application are to be steered clear of as you will get some first year HR graduate that harrasses the
out of your referees and sooner or later it is going to annoy your referee that is there to say good things about you.
Simply state that you will name referees at 'preferred candidate stage' and not before.
It sounds like an organisation that you wouldn't want to work for anyway.
Professional Referees/References are valuable to you.
Referees are to confirm the decision made by the recuitment process, not to make the decision. No one would name a referee that is going to say something bad about them.
Organisations/Recruitment Agents that demand 3 referees upon application are to be steered clear of as you will get some first year HR graduate that harrasses the
out of your referees and sooner or later it is going to annoy your referee that is there to say good things about you.Simply state that you will name referees at 'preferred candidate stage' and not before.
It sounds like an organisation that you wouldn't want to work for anyway.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Land of Ice and Fire
You said you had a job offer AND a contract. Why would they give a contract prior to them contacting referees if the reference check was going to be used to make the decision?
Yes...it was all very strange....they then claimed that the contract was "pending satisfactory references" as the reason for withdrawing it.... But not only did I say no to the free-lance, but I had come over for the intro course!
I will pursue the issue and heading off to the CAB now!
Let you know!
Yes...it was all very strange....they then claimed that the contract was "pending satisfactory references" as the reason for withdrawing it.... But not only did I say no to the free-lance, but I had come over for the intro course!
I will pursue the issue and heading off to the CAB now!
Let you know!
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: EU
I am quite sure you have a right to see the references under the Data Protection Act. I am also pretty sure you can sue the referee if the reference is factually incorrect.
References from former employers in the UK these days are vague and carefully worded because they don't want to be sued!
But to be honest, I would imagine the withdrawal of the job offer is more likely a result of commercial rather than personal considerations, and the 'poor reference' excuse merely a smokescreen.
Seek legal advice.
References from former employers in the UK these days are vague and carefully worded because they don't want to be sued!
But to be honest, I would imagine the withdrawal of the job offer is more likely a result of commercial rather than personal considerations, and the 'poor reference' excuse merely a smokescreen.
Seek legal advice.
Joined: Feb 2011
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From: Europe
When dealing with references, the data protection and disclosure rules are slightly different to other "personal data" covered.
Firstly, you couldn't claim unfair dismissal as, unless you have two years service or the reason for the dismissal/termination of contract is discriminatory (i.e. sex, race etc) then you are not covered.
As for contacting the referee, the company/individual that issued the reference is not obliged to provide a copy as it was between them and your new employer. You will have to submit a "subject access request" to the company who received the reference and for a "reasonable fee" (it use to be limited to Ģ10, not sure what it is now) they should provide a copy within 40 days...make sure you send the request registered post and keep a copy of the letter.
For more information and template letters, check out the Information Commissioners office website...its something like ICO.gov.uk
Hope this helps and good luck.
Firstly, you couldn't claim unfair dismissal as, unless you have two years service or the reason for the dismissal/termination of contract is discriminatory (i.e. sex, race etc) then you are not covered.
As for contacting the referee, the company/individual that issued the reference is not obliged to provide a copy as it was between them and your new employer. You will have to submit a "subject access request" to the company who received the reference and for a "reasonable fee" (it use to be limited to Ģ10, not sure what it is now) they should provide a copy within 40 days...make sure you send the request registered post and keep a copy of the letter.
For more information and template letters, check out the Information Commissioners office website...its something like ICO.gov.uk
Hope this helps and good luck.
Joined: Feb 2011
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From: London
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
Oh, dear!
One could spend pages on this.
Go back to post 2 and start getting the facts.
Towser. UK case law is that if a reference is given, it must be accurate. So a bad one can be given, but the previous employer must have real evidence. Saying you had a bad attitude is no good, unless you have put that in writing to the employee,and told the employee what a good attitude looks like.
One could spend pages on this.
Go back to post 2 and start getting the facts.
Towser. UK case law is that if a reference is given, it must be accurate. So a bad one can be given, but the previous employer must have real evidence. Saying you had a bad attitude is no good, unless you have put that in writing to the employee,and told the employee what a good attitude looks like.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Land of Ice and Fire
plot thickens
Ah well....now that I have been stirring things up a VERY interesting thing came to light. There was in fact no poor reference! There was however, an anonymous e-mail sent telling them basically that I had done all sorts of terrible things in the past and they were concerned, "a concerned aviation professional," as it was signed(!)
Now I may be naive and old-fashioned, but when I was in the hiring position, I would have sat the person down and said-"do you have any enemies that you know of?" Then showed them the mail and let him or her respond. If there was a single concrete allegation that could be proved one way or another, then have it done. That they covered this up until now makes me rather happy that I didnīt get the job, as someone that would act as they did and then lie about it...telling me that it was a bad referance...well, I probably wouldnīt want to work with them anyway! Not only were they plain stupid, but they then went on to lie about it and cover up some sick little person with a grudge.
So thanks for all the legal and other advise...but I now know what really happened!
Now I may be naive and old-fashioned, but when I was in the hiring position, I would have sat the person down and said-"do you have any enemies that you know of?" Then showed them the mail and let him or her respond. If there was a single concrete allegation that could be proved one way or another, then have it done. That they covered this up until now makes me rather happy that I didnīt get the job, as someone that would act as they did and then lie about it...telling me that it was a bad referance...well, I probably wouldnīt want to work with them anyway! Not only were they plain stupid, but they then went on to lie about it and cover up some sick little person with a grudge.
So thanks for all the legal and other advise...but I now know what really happened!
Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Wayne Manor
the party obviously knows enough to know that you had applied for a position with the company, but wont step out in the open.
the fact that someone has the capacity to bad-mouth someone directly to an employer yet not have the huevos to do so outside of anonymity should have been a clear indicator to this employer.
you havn't been getting your leg over somone's wife have you ?
the fact that someone has the capacity to bad-mouth someone directly to an employer yet not have the huevos to do so outside of anonymity should have been a clear indicator to this employer.
you havn't been getting your leg over somone's wife have you ?
