RYR Company ID's
I was a DC-10 captain with Laker when we went bust.
Not long afterwards, I was invited for an interview with a US Part 121 carrier. Money was certainly discussed but trivia certainly was not.
One of my friends just could not get his head around the fact that you had to buy your own uniform (38NW Street) Miami. Not only that, he could not accept the fact that we were going to wear single breasted jackets instead of his traditional double breasted version. The whole lot including two sets of pants came to $120.
One hour flight pay was $140.
But he didn't see it that way.
And so it was that he spent the rest of his aviation career on Jetstreams working for a UK carrier (at Birmingham).
I have to say that I have never met anyone apart from TG who would give up his future aviation career for the sake of his demand for a double-breasted uniform, but, as the French would say, "chaque a son gout".
I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out what makes people tick.
Not long afterwards, I was invited for an interview with a US Part 121 carrier. Money was certainly discussed but trivia certainly was not.
One of my friends just could not get his head around the fact that you had to buy your own uniform (38NW Street) Miami. Not only that, he could not accept the fact that we were going to wear single breasted jackets instead of his traditional double breasted version. The whole lot including two sets of pants came to $120.
One hour flight pay was $140.
But he didn't see it that way.
And so it was that he spent the rest of his aviation career on Jetstreams working for a UK carrier (at Birmingham).
I have to say that I have never met anyone apart from TG who would give up his future aviation career for the sake of his demand for a double-breasted uniform, but, as the French would say, "chaque a son gout".
I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out what makes people tick.
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That's a lovely story, but we're not talking about one hours worth of pay here.
It'd be interesting to know what sort of fees the BRK pilots are being forced to pay for this setup and how the management of their money actually works.
Being a contractor is actually very simple, just set up a ltd co. (just a few quid) register for tax, N.I and VAT (if applicable) and get an accountant to sort everything out. A good accountant shouldn't cost you any more than Ģ80 a month.
Other fees are then your public liability, employers liability etc, but that shouldn't be more than Ģ400 a year even for someone who works airside. (Obviously!)
If you haven't got control over who your accountants are, then I can't really see how you are a seperate ltd co. Don't forget that as a contractor, you are both the director and employee and so how you can be forced into this sort of thing baffles the mind.
It doesn't make sense for BRK/RYR either unless they are using it to make money or exert control. Using contractors is usually done as it's the simplist way to get decent staff at short notice. It's usually a bit more expensive long term than having employed staff, but contractors give you much more flexibility and control over your costs. This is not normally to the employees benefit obviously!
It'd be interesting to know what sort of fees the BRK pilots are being forced to pay for this setup and how the management of their money actually works.
Being a contractor is actually very simple, just set up a ltd co. (just a few quid) register for tax, N.I and VAT (if applicable) and get an accountant to sort everything out. A good accountant shouldn't cost you any more than Ģ80 a month.
Other fees are then your public liability, employers liability etc, but that shouldn't be more than Ģ400 a year even for someone who works airside. (Obviously!)
If you haven't got control over who your accountants are, then I can't really see how you are a seperate ltd co. Don't forget that as a contractor, you are both the director and employee and so how you can be forced into this sort of thing baffles the mind.
It doesn't make sense for BRK/RYR either unless they are using it to make money or exert control. Using contractors is usually done as it's the simplist way to get decent staff at short notice. It's usually a bit more expensive long term than having employed staff, but contractors give you much more flexibility and control over your costs. This is not normally to the employees benefit obviously!
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The accountants charge 3% of your entire income to cover all their fees. This was the deal when I saw the contract 2 years ago.
Aside from this there are several other costs. However as I'm not familiar with the Irish tax system, NHS, insurance etc I can't say how big of an impact this will have on your income.
These CXC and Mcnamarra schemes are the direct result of an investigation by the Irish treasury into Dublin. One fine day someone woke up and realised that year after year Ryanair had been increasing the amount of aircraft based in Dublin but magically the amount of Ryanair employees had stabilsed.
Eventually the treasury declared the Brookfield contracts as they were insatisfactory and this is where the Irish ltd. companies come in. They basically serve as a tax buffer between the Irish government and Ryanair. It doesn't cost Ryanair anything, but the Irish get their money regardless. Everybody happy. Except for the poor kid who gets squeezed for every euro he earned.
Working with contracts is much cheaper for Ryanair. What little in extra pay they have to give you is offset by not having any administration costs, social security contribution, no required insurance coverage, no pension schemes. Etc...
But for the most part it is administration. Remember that even though we fly nearly 300 aircraft, the White House is staffed by just a handful of people. Administration costs have to be kept down for Ryanair at all cost.
Aside from this there are several other costs. However as I'm not familiar with the Irish tax system, NHS, insurance etc I can't say how big of an impact this will have on your income.
These CXC and Mcnamarra schemes are the direct result of an investigation by the Irish treasury into Dublin. One fine day someone woke up and realised that year after year Ryanair had been increasing the amount of aircraft based in Dublin but magically the amount of Ryanair employees had stabilsed.
Eventually the treasury declared the Brookfield contracts as they were insatisfactory and this is where the Irish ltd. companies come in. They basically serve as a tax buffer between the Irish government and Ryanair. It doesn't cost Ryanair anything, but the Irish get their money regardless. Everybody happy. Except for the poor kid who gets squeezed for every euro he earned.
Working with contracts is much cheaper for Ryanair. What little in extra pay they have to give you is offset by not having any administration costs, social security contribution, no required insurance coverage, no pension schemes. Etc...
But for the most part it is administration. Remember that even though we fly nearly 300 aircraft, the White House is staffed by just a handful of people. Administration costs have to be kept down for Ryanair at all cost.
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3% of the gross... Blimey.
The use of contractors only works in this case because RYR crews aren't paid normal contractor rates! If they were, then it would be cheaper to have people in the white house to manage the whole game.
Everytime I read a RYR thread on here it both depresses and amuses me. Depressing as I can see what's happening to the profession that I love, but amusing in that I cannot believe what RYR get away with and so I have a lot of respect for their moxie, if not their morals.
However, all RYR crews are adults and therefore capable of making their own decisions. The fact that I think they're loonies for putting up with this isn't really relevant. It just makes me glad that I refused to go down the route of RYR to pay the bills.
The use of contractors only works in this case because RYR crews aren't paid normal contractor rates! If they were, then it would be cheaper to have people in the white house to manage the whole game.
Everytime I read a RYR thread on here it both depresses and amuses me. Depressing as I can see what's happening to the profession that I love, but amusing in that I cannot believe what RYR get away with and so I have a lot of respect for their moxie, if not their morals.
However, all RYR crews are adults and therefore capable of making their own decisions. The fact that I think they're loonies for putting up with this isn't really relevant. It just makes me glad that I refused to go down the route of RYR to pay the bills.
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I object to being called a loonie! 
The Ryanair pilot body is made up out of several different background.
New joiners are either unwillingly ignorant such as the new cadets who have no connections inside the industry and thus only know it from the outside.
Or they are desperate. Such as the hundreds of pilots coming from companies that went bankrupt and find themselves in an impossible position. Show me a man who will refuse to take a job purely on principal when he has a wife and kids at home.
Once in Ryanair you will find the pilot body consists of several groups as well.
1. Those nearing retirement and who can't be bothered to move any more.
2. Those blinded by the promise of a base transfer back home or a quick command.
3. Those too new to the industry to understand what is going on.
4. Those who complain all the time but will never leave.
5. Those who listened carefully to their peers and slowly have come to the realization they need to find a place to start an actual career.
Only the last group will leave.
The Ryanair pilot body is made up out of several different background.
New joiners are either unwillingly ignorant such as the new cadets who have no connections inside the industry and thus only know it from the outside.
Or they are desperate. Such as the hundreds of pilots coming from companies that went bankrupt and find themselves in an impossible position. Show me a man who will refuse to take a job purely on principal when he has a wife and kids at home.
Once in Ryanair you will find the pilot body consists of several groups as well.
1. Those nearing retirement and who can't be bothered to move any more.
2. Those blinded by the promise of a base transfer back home or a quick command.
3. Those too new to the industry to understand what is going on.
4. Those who complain all the time but will never leave.
5. Those who listened carefully to their peers and slowly have come to the realization they need to find a place to start an actual career.
Only the last group will leave.
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I cannot disagree with any of that.
Oh and you're not a loony unless you signed onto that atrocious deal in the last 3 years!
I know quite a few RYR pilots in position 5 and nearly all of them have jumped ship recently. All of them are now wondering what on earth they were doing for the last few years!
I know why people work for RYR and I don't want to get into a debate about it. I worked for a now defunct cargo airline that made RYR look like the promised land in comparison, so I'm very aware of what people will put up with to get a start in this business!
Oh and you're not a loony unless you signed onto that atrocious deal in the last 3 years!
I know quite a few RYR pilots in position 5 and nearly all of them have jumped ship recently. All of them are now wondering what on earth they were doing for the last few years!
I know why people work for RYR and I don't want to get into a debate about it. I worked for a now defunct cargo airline that made RYR look like the promised land in comparison, so I'm very aware of what people will put up with to get a start in this business!
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I'm not au fait with Irish tax law, but in the UK they'd be avoiding paying National Insurance contributions, which is not insignificant.
There are a myriad of reason to use or not use contractors. RYR have made the choice to use solely contractors now and it works for them. If the market picks up and more recruitment starts at other airlines, then it might bite them in backside, but that's by no means certain.
There are a myriad of reason to use or not use contractors. RYR have made the choice to use solely contractors now and it works for them. If the market picks up and more recruitment starts at other airlines, then it might bite them in backside, but that's by no means certain.
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I understand that of the 3%:
Brookfield get 1%
Ryanair get 1%
accountants get 1%
On top of that we are charged 30 euros/month as "bank charges" to transfer wages.
I also heard that St James managment is owned/run by Mrs O'leary, and consequently, the ID cards now make sense
Anyone want to give me a job?
Brookfield get 1%
Ryanair get 1%
accountants get 1%
On top of that we are charged 30 euros/month as "bank charges" to transfer wages.
I also heard that St James managment is owned/run by Mrs O'leary, and consequently, the ID cards now make sense
Anyone want to give me a job?
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its fairly obvious that there is back handers going on with the brk/acc/ryr scam and that there is a link to st. james within ryr, but i doubt if o leary is interested in little security firms like st james(or whatever they are!!). what does seem strange is that its in bishop stortford,only a little town before ryr came to town.
there was a rumor before about o leary being linked to procious a few years back, same old goonies coming out to play me thinks!!
i personally cant wait until the uk govt gives the irish lads a little buzz to say we want some tax from all the brk people based in the uk. if enough people in the uk say they want to pay tax at home but cant because ryr/brk have this scam going then we shouldn't have to wait too long.(before everybody starts,i know about the cross border tax agreement between uk and ireland but its a choice we all should have.)
there was a rumor before about o leary being linked to procious a few years back, same old goonies coming out to play me thinks!!
i personally cant wait until the uk govt gives the irish lads a little buzz to say we want some tax from all the brk people based in the uk. if enough people in the uk say they want to pay tax at home but cant because ryr/brk have this scam going then we shouldn't have to wait too long.(before everybody starts,i know about the cross border tax agreement between uk and ireland but its a choice we all should have.)
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You might get tax relief on it, but you still have to pay it and you only get a % tax relief on it anyway.
3% is a hell of a lot to be paying. Far more than if you did it another way. That's more than triple what I pay my accountant when it all works out.
3% is a hell of a lot to be paying. Far more than if you did it another way. That's more than triple what I pay my accountant when it all works out.
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I always wonder how many (ex)RYR pilots are actually replying to threads like these. Or are the topics filled by non-pilots or frustrated pilots who are flying at other airlines? Frustrated yes, because I canīt imagine why else you would reply in a RYR-topic? I know a few RYR pilots and they are actually all quite happy with their current position, none of them is thinking about leaving.
I also signed up with the Irish and I can already say you know: Iīll be earning more at RYR then with my current (IT) job, not to mention Iīll be making some 737 hours. Offcourse there are betters jobs out on the market, but you have to be really really really lucky to be to one who gets it. And then you also have loads of flyingjobs which are worse then a job at RYR.
Itīs funny to see people always attacking RYR (keeping the attention away from your own company?). RYR is not the best, but also not the worst employer around.
I also signed up with the Irish and I can already say you know: Iīll be earning more at RYR then with my current (IT) job, not to mention Iīll be making some 737 hours. Offcourse there are betters jobs out on the market, but you have to be really really really lucky to be to one who gets it. And then you also have loads of flyingjobs which are worse then a job at RYR.
Itīs funny to see people always attacking RYR (keeping the attention away from your own company?). RYR is not the best, but also not the worst employer around.
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Another naif to the slaughter. How predictable.
Xolon, why don't you tell us what experience you have working as a pilot? I don't mean training, I mean actually earning a living wage?
A few 737 hours will mean nothing to you when you've a few thousand in the book. An aircraft is an aircraft and flying is a job. A good one of course, but after a bit of time you'll realise that an airliner is a tool and not a toy.
As SK mentions, come back to this thread in a few years and we'll see what you think then.
Xolon, why don't you tell us what experience you have working as a pilot? I don't mean training, I mean actually earning a living wage?
A few 737 hours will mean nothing to you when you've a few thousand in the book. An aircraft is an aircraft and flying is a job. A good one of course, but after a bit of time you'll realise that an airliner is a tool and not a toy.
As SK mentions, come back to this thread in a few years and we'll see what you think then.
''because I canīt imagine why else you would reply in a RYR-topic?''
I can imagine why (speaking as a non RYR pilot). It's because Ryanair have degraded pilots terms and conditions more than any other airline to the extent they have had an effect on the whole industry. We have all been affected by this and the lifestyle we once enjoyed will never return. Of course you may not see it that way because you are probably one of the new breed of pilot who thinks it's normal to pay for their own rating, line training, uniform, accomodation, car parking, in flight food and company ID. And also effectively be employed as a part time contractor and end up unemployed over winter.
But not so many years ago, it wasn't like that. And although you're excited now to be flying a jet, I can guarentee the gloss will wear off far faster under the modern airline employment practices. I too look forward to your reply in three years!
I can imagine why (speaking as a non RYR pilot). It's because Ryanair have degraded pilots terms and conditions more than any other airline to the extent they have had an effect on the whole industry. We have all been affected by this and the lifestyle we once enjoyed will never return. Of course you may not see it that way because you are probably one of the new breed of pilot who thinks it's normal to pay for their own rating, line training, uniform, accomodation, car parking, in flight food and company ID. And also effectively be employed as a part time contractor and end up unemployed over winter.
But not so many years ago, it wasn't like that. And although you're excited now to be flying a jet, I can guarentee the gloss will wear off far faster under the modern airline employment practices. I too look forward to your reply in three years!