Korean Air Discrimination
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Korean Air Discrimination
This is an article from the Korea Times and is worth noting for anyone considering applying to Korean Air:
Korean Air sued for hiring foreign pilots
By Lee Hyo-sik
Korean Air, the nation’s largest flagship carrier, has been sued by its pilot union over its hiring of foreign pilots.
The Korean Air Flight Crew Union is claiming that the company is illegally employing nearly 400 non-Korean pilots as non-regular workers via job placement agencies overseas, violating the domestic law concerning the rights of dispatched workers. It demands the firm hire foreign crews as regular employees.
But the airline argues there is nothing wrong with its hiring system, saying it was cleared of the same charge brought by the union in 2003. It also says it needs to hire foreign pilots on a contract basis to more flexibly manage its workforce in accordance with economic cycles.
The Seoul Southern District Labor Office said Thursday that it is currently reviewing a complaint filed by unionized workers of Korean Air, adding it will thoroughly look into the case before deciding whether to refer it to the prosecution or not.
On Dec. 31, the union complained to the labor office about the company’s hiring practice of foreign pilots, saying a pilot is not one of the 32 occupations that are allowed to be outsourced under the “Dispatched Workers’ Protection Law.” But the airline employs foreign pilots on a contract basis through eight employment agencies abroad, it said.
Those who violated the law are subject up to three years in prison or a fine of 20 million won.
“Even though Korean Air is not allowed to employ non-regular pilots under the law, it has continued to do so via foreign job placement agencies for years. It should have hired temporary foreign pilots that have worked for two years as regulars ones. But it has not,” said Park Byoung-lyoul, secretary general of the Korean Air Flight Crew Union.
Korean Air currently has 396 non-Korean pilots on its payroll, all on a temporary basis. They account for 15.5 percent of the company’s total 2,550. They usually sign a 5-year contract and receive wages from employment agencies. But flight schedules, training, holidays and other work-related matters are supervised by Korean Air.
Korea’s other flagship carrier Asiana Airlines employs 121 foreign pilots in the same way as its larger competitor.
The secretary general said foreign pilots receive higher wages than Korean unionized pilots, adding they are not held responsible for their work behavior as they are not subject to Korean Air’s internal disciplinary rules.
However, Korean Air flatly dismisses the pilot union’s claims, insisting its hiring system of foreign pilots is not subject to the Dispatched Workers’ Protection Law because job placement agencies are registered overseas.
“The law applies only to employment agents registered here. In 2003, the pilot union filed the same complaint to the labor office, which referred the case to the prosecution. But the prosecutors decided not to go forward with it because the job placement agencies were based in foreign countries,” a Korean Air spokesman said.
The spokesman also rejected the union’s claim that foreign pilots receive higher wages and greater welfare benefits, saying the unionized Korean pilots are actually treated better than their foreign counterparts.
“We cannot simply say that someone is better off than another just because he or she gets larger paychecks. We also need to take other monetary and non-monetary benefits into account. All together, unionized domestic pilots enjoy much better conditions,” he said.
The spokesman then said the hiring of foreign pilots on a non-regular basis helps secure job security for Korean pilots.
“The company can let temporary workers go when the economy goes bad, meaning we can more flexibly manage our workforce if foreign pilots are hired as non-regulars. It is much harder to lay off regular unionized workers.”
[email protected]
Other factors to consider before applying to Korean Air are:
1) The current failure rate in the sim pre-employment check is in excess of 80%
2) The Korean’s continue to discriminate against the foreign pilot group and Korean F/O’s continue to report on foreign captains.
3) The Korean’s recently received a cost of living index increment of 5.4% and the foreign pilots received 0%.
4) The Korean’s recently received a bonus equivalent to 239% and the foreign pilots received 0%.
5) Foreign Captains are no longer able to travel in First Class but Korean Captains and F/O’s continue to do so.
6) Your contract, with whichever agency, isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
This list could go on and on, but the main points have been covered.
Unless you’re desperate to quit your existing job; or if you’ve already tried everywhere else and have no place to go – don’t come to Korean Air.
Korean Air sued for hiring foreign pilots
By Lee Hyo-sik
Korean Air, the nation’s largest flagship carrier, has been sued by its pilot union over its hiring of foreign pilots.
The Korean Air Flight Crew Union is claiming that the company is illegally employing nearly 400 non-Korean pilots as non-regular workers via job placement agencies overseas, violating the domestic law concerning the rights of dispatched workers. It demands the firm hire foreign crews as regular employees.
But the airline argues there is nothing wrong with its hiring system, saying it was cleared of the same charge brought by the union in 2003. It also says it needs to hire foreign pilots on a contract basis to more flexibly manage its workforce in accordance with economic cycles.
The Seoul Southern District Labor Office said Thursday that it is currently reviewing a complaint filed by unionized workers of Korean Air, adding it will thoroughly look into the case before deciding whether to refer it to the prosecution or not.
On Dec. 31, the union complained to the labor office about the company’s hiring practice of foreign pilots, saying a pilot is not one of the 32 occupations that are allowed to be outsourced under the “Dispatched Workers’ Protection Law.” But the airline employs foreign pilots on a contract basis through eight employment agencies abroad, it said.
Those who violated the law are subject up to three years in prison or a fine of 20 million won.
“Even though Korean Air is not allowed to employ non-regular pilots under the law, it has continued to do so via foreign job placement agencies for years. It should have hired temporary foreign pilots that have worked for two years as regulars ones. But it has not,” said Park Byoung-lyoul, secretary general of the Korean Air Flight Crew Union.
Korean Air currently has 396 non-Korean pilots on its payroll, all on a temporary basis. They account for 15.5 percent of the company’s total 2,550. They usually sign a 5-year contract and receive wages from employment agencies. But flight schedules, training, holidays and other work-related matters are supervised by Korean Air.
Korea’s other flagship carrier Asiana Airlines employs 121 foreign pilots in the same way as its larger competitor.
The secretary general said foreign pilots receive higher wages than Korean unionized pilots, adding they are not held responsible for their work behavior as they are not subject to Korean Air’s internal disciplinary rules.
However, Korean Air flatly dismisses the pilot union’s claims, insisting its hiring system of foreign pilots is not subject to the Dispatched Workers’ Protection Law because job placement agencies are registered overseas.
“The law applies only to employment agents registered here. In 2003, the pilot union filed the same complaint to the labor office, which referred the case to the prosecution. But the prosecutors decided not to go forward with it because the job placement agencies were based in foreign countries,” a Korean Air spokesman said.
The spokesman also rejected the union’s claim that foreign pilots receive higher wages and greater welfare benefits, saying the unionized Korean pilots are actually treated better than their foreign counterparts.
“We cannot simply say that someone is better off than another just because he or she gets larger paychecks. We also need to take other monetary and non-monetary benefits into account. All together, unionized domestic pilots enjoy much better conditions,” he said.
The spokesman then said the hiring of foreign pilots on a non-regular basis helps secure job security for Korean pilots.
“The company can let temporary workers go when the economy goes bad, meaning we can more flexibly manage our workforce if foreign pilots are hired as non-regulars. It is much harder to lay off regular unionized workers.”
[email protected]
Other factors to consider before applying to Korean Air are:
1) The current failure rate in the sim pre-employment check is in excess of 80%
2) The Korean’s continue to discriminate against the foreign pilot group and Korean F/O’s continue to report on foreign captains.
3) The Korean’s recently received a cost of living index increment of 5.4% and the foreign pilots received 0%.
4) The Korean’s recently received a bonus equivalent to 239% and the foreign pilots received 0%.
5) Foreign Captains are no longer able to travel in First Class but Korean Captains and F/O’s continue to do so.
6) Your contract, with whichever agency, isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
This list could go on and on, but the main points have been covered.
Unless you’re desperate to quit your existing job; or if you’ve already tried everywhere else and have no place to go – don’t come to Korean Air.
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Nothing has changed. A brutal airline with a brutal culture.
I should know, having worked on their Guam 747 crash.
Oh yeah, shame on the Russians for having shot that KAL 747 down.
I should know, having worked on their Guam 747 crash.
Oh yeah, shame on the Russians for having shot that KAL 747 down.
The secretary general said foreign pilots receive higher wages than Korean unionized pilots,
3) The Korean’s recently received a cost of living index increment of 5.4% and the foreign pilots received 0%.
4) The Korean’s recently received a bonus equivalent to 239% and the foreign pilots received 0%.
4) The Korean’s recently received a bonus equivalent to 239% and the foreign pilots received 0%.
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Because foreign pilots' standard is much to be desired, way below the local Koreans superior flying skills.
Trust me, that's actually true, they are really absolutely the best pilots amongst the lot.
Well, at least that's what I gathered through my mates there; who seemed to think that you gotta be mad to give it a go when you have any other reasonable options.
Caboclo
All the statements are true apparently. The one glance pay check comparison between locals and foreigners, the latter are paid more. The locals did get their living index increment plus bonus, the foreigners didn't.
Bear in mind though, they have not violated any of the contracts, again that's what I was told.
Trust me, that's actually true, they are really absolutely the best pilots amongst the lot.
Well, at least that's what I gathered through my mates there; who seemed to think that you gotta be mad to give it a go when you have any other reasonable options.
Caboclo
All the statements are true apparently. The one glance pay check comparison between locals and foreigners, the latter are paid more. The locals did get their living index increment plus bonus, the foreigners didn't.
Bear in mind though, they have not violated any of the contracts, again that's what I was told.
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TO: BREAK BREAK
Where are you getting your information from?
Korean pilots are perhaps the worst in the world with no handling skills whatsoever.
Remember all the "Blue Tails" planted around the world in the late 90's? Well in case you hadn't heard, all the pilots involved were Korean's!
Foreign pilots came to Korea and have turned the airline around!
There are approximately 400 highly qualified and experienced foreign pilots with Korean Air now and were it not for the racism, discrimination and constant contract violations more would stay rather than leave for “greener pastures”!
Get your facts right in the future before posting a thread here!
Where are you getting your information from?
Korean pilots are perhaps the worst in the world with no handling skills whatsoever.
Remember all the "Blue Tails" planted around the world in the late 90's? Well in case you hadn't heard, all the pilots involved were Korean's!
Foreign pilots came to Korea and have turned the airline around!
There are approximately 400 highly qualified and experienced foreign pilots with Korean Air now and were it not for the racism, discrimination and constant contract violations more would stay rather than leave for “greener pastures”!
Get your facts right in the future before posting a thread here!
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LOL 
Folks thanks for the kind explanation to KAL Aviator, who obviously is pretty pist off with what's going on there.
KAL Aviator,
Suggest you chill, and read the posting carefully before coming on so strongly. I can picture how pleasant you must be in the cockpit. [I supposed you need to in order to survive in KAL??]
I sure got my facts right, and that's why I have chosen not to join my mates despite the rather attractive commuting contract.
Folks thanks for the kind explanation to KAL Aviator, who obviously is pretty pist off with what's going on there.
KAL Aviator,
Suggest you chill, and read the posting carefully before coming on so strongly. I can picture how pleasant you must be in the cockpit. [I supposed you need to in order to survive in KAL??]
I sure got my facts right, and that's why I have chosen not to join my mates despite the rather attractive commuting contract.
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After my company, that I worked for 10 years went bust, I applied and went through their screening. It appeared fair and straight forward. During my 5 days in ICN I didn't see any discrimination and the people seemed quite friendly. I have accepted their job offer. After reading all these posts about KAL one may draw the conclusion that is a rather hospitable enviroment. I wonder. There must be some truth in the numerous posts about KAL but I am sure that there are also many positives. After all if someone feels he shouldn't be at any airline, then is impossible to see anything positive. And the contrary will be true. I have friends at KAL and they are pretty much ok there, following one basic rule: Just do your job as good as possible, keep a low profile, and you will be fine.
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VaniosLenos
Well you did fall into category of not having too much of good alternative. And with your positive attitude, pretty darn sure that you will do just fine in any new career you have in mind.
All the best my friend, and do keep a good look out on the local boys who are apparently out to get foreign pilots.
Well you did fall into category of not having too much of good alternative. And with your positive attitude, pretty darn sure that you will do just fine in any new career you have in mind.
All the best my friend, and do keep a good look out on the local boys who are apparently out to get foreign pilots.
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Any respect I might have had for Korea and other Asian countries is gone.
Labor law around the world prohibits temp time limited contracts for full time professional type work. Including Korea. Time limited contracts are reserved for cyclical seasonal business and project related work. Even then there are limits to what can be specified. Or else, any employer can take advantage of these time limited employments to release themselves of the financial commitments of long term employment such as pensions and wage increases over time and severance pay. Just think how much money a company could save and the competitive advantage it could achieve!!! Wow… this is what is at the forfront of the Asian mentality.
The Koreans (and other Asian companies) allege that the expats have a higher salary therefore it justifies the temp nature of the employment, and even though the courts and gov’t know its not on the level, they turn a blind shoulder. Sorry but this would never happen in western society. However at closer look the overall compensation is not so different. Locals earn bonuses etc. However even at the govt or court level they are corrupt. If its not going to become a visual item for the world to see, then they will protect the company and not the rights of the individual. It’s a disgusting double standard. Want to be on the world stage…part of United Nations… be treated equally…but reciprocity does not exist. Practice what you preach Asia.
The whole reason these contracts exist for us is because at a basic level we are not welcome, we are not treated as equals. They do not want us in their society. Where I come from you have to have landed immigration status before you are allowed to work. Where I come from Koreans and all ethnicities are welcome into society and thrive. But its not so in reverse. Why?
Taiwan is even worse. That is why Taiwan should never be allowed to be part of the UN.
Shame on the Koreans for sacrificing their young to save a buck.
As my Korean friends father says….shame.. SHAME….
Labor law around the world prohibits temp time limited contracts for full time professional type work. Including Korea. Time limited contracts are reserved for cyclical seasonal business and project related work. Even then there are limits to what can be specified. Or else, any employer can take advantage of these time limited employments to release themselves of the financial commitments of long term employment such as pensions and wage increases over time and severance pay. Just think how much money a company could save and the competitive advantage it could achieve!!! Wow… this is what is at the forfront of the Asian mentality.
The Koreans (and other Asian companies) allege that the expats have a higher salary therefore it justifies the temp nature of the employment, and even though the courts and gov’t know its not on the level, they turn a blind shoulder. Sorry but this would never happen in western society. However at closer look the overall compensation is not so different. Locals earn bonuses etc. However even at the govt or court level they are corrupt. If its not going to become a visual item for the world to see, then they will protect the company and not the rights of the individual. It’s a disgusting double standard. Want to be on the world stage…part of United Nations… be treated equally…but reciprocity does not exist. Practice what you preach Asia.
The whole reason these contracts exist for us is because at a basic level we are not welcome, we are not treated as equals. They do not want us in their society. Where I come from you have to have landed immigration status before you are allowed to work. Where I come from Koreans and all ethnicities are welcome into society and thrive. But its not so in reverse. Why?
Taiwan is even worse. That is why Taiwan should never be allowed to be part of the UN.
Shame on the Koreans for sacrificing their young to save a buck.
As my Korean friends father says….shame.. SHAME….
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These arguments from the pilots union miss one vital point. . . Contractors are cheaper.
Were it cheaper to give Johnny Foreigner a permanent contract,assuming any would wish to join on these terms, he would be given one.
What the company pay extra in upfront salary, will be more than compensated for by their lack of requirement to pay social charges/pension etc etc.
Very important to note that, unlike Asiana, this contract IS, I repeat IS, a commuting contract, and any offer on your part to establish a domicile/relocate your family there will be very firmly rebuffed.
This COMMUTING CONTRACT CAPTAIN, you no understand, or what cookie boy
Were it cheaper to give Johnny Foreigner a permanent contract,assuming any would wish to join on these terms, he would be given one.
What the company pay extra in upfront salary, will be more than compensated for by their lack of requirement to pay social charges/pension etc etc.
Very important to note that, unlike Asiana, this contract IS, I repeat IS, a commuting contract, and any offer on your part to establish a domicile/relocate your family there will be very firmly rebuffed.
This COMMUTING CONTRACT CAPTAIN, you no understand, or what cookie boy
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555orange
That is why Taiwan should never be allowed to be part of the UN.
The United Nations is an international organization whose stated aims are facilitating cooperation in international law, international security, economic development, human rights, and achievement of world peace.
Without detailing the shortcomings at Korean Airlines, of which there are many, during my previous association with KAL, I was never required to learn or speak the Korean language.
Although the mandated language of aviation is English, recent recruitment ads by German and Dutch airlines, both required the applicants to be fluent in the respective local language. Perhaps 555orange believes that Germany and Holland should be ejected from the UN for imposing these restrictions on foreign workers.
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"Although the mandated language of aviation is English, recent recruitment ads by German and Dutch airlines, both required the applicants to be fluent in the respective local language."
Well played!!
Well played!!
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Read before you weep gentlemen. The problem is you assume that In Asia in general( like all westerners do) you will be treated fairly. My comments come from a position of direct experience and education. Not ignorance.
As I said Time Spec contracts are illegal for professions that are in essence full time. This is generally worldwide in labor law. In the UK after 2 years any time specified contract automatically reverts to "full time employment" and assumes the labor law protections therein.*
The reason for the language issue is to protect the local labor. In Asia, they bounce from national goals, to saving a buck and sacrificing their own. So you can drop on your head on that one.*
In Taiwan they make you feel all fuzzy with a contract that stipulates a month salary per year as well as a pension, and when it comes time to collect, nada. It was challenged in court, and the court stated "foreign workers are not entitled to labor law protection". It was the local lawyer who said it would never have happened in western society so maybe you should shoot him. Korea is a bit better but not by much. The reasons it's strictly a commuting contract stands.
Time for some self reflection on the ignorance topic gentlemen.
As I said Time Spec contracts are illegal for professions that are in essence full time. This is generally worldwide in labor law. In the UK after 2 years any time specified contract automatically reverts to "full time employment" and assumes the labor law protections therein.*
The reason for the language issue is to protect the local labor. In Asia, they bounce from national goals, to saving a buck and sacrificing their own. So you can drop on your head on that one.*
In Taiwan they make you feel all fuzzy with a contract that stipulates a month salary per year as well as a pension, and when it comes time to collect, nada. It was challenged in court, and the court stated "foreign workers are not entitled to labor law protection". It was the local lawyer who said it would never have happened in western society so maybe you should shoot him. Korea is a bit better but not by much. The reasons it's strictly a commuting contract stands.
Time for some self reflection on the ignorance topic gentlemen.
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KAL Part II
09-02-2011 19:00
Korean Air faces indictment over practice of hiring foreign pilots
By Lee Hyo-sik
The labor ministry has asked the prosecution to indict Korean Air, the nation’s largest flagship carrier, claiming its hiring practice of foreign pilots was “illegal.”
The Seoul Southern District Labor Office said Friday that it had thoroughly reviewed a complaint filed by unionized workers of Korean Air. It added that it would refer the case to the prosecution.
“We concluded that the airline’s method of employing non-Korean pilots violates the domestic law concerning the rights of dispatched workers. We asked the prosecution to indict Korean Air for hiring foreign aviators in an unlawful manner,” the labor office said.
On Dec. 31, the Korean Air Flight Crew Union complained to the office about the company’s hiring practice of foreign pilots. The union accused Korean Air of illegally employing nearly 400 non-Korean pilots as non-regular workers via job placement agencies overseas. This violates the “Dispatched Workers’ Protection Law.”
It said a pilot is not one of the 32 occupations that are allowed to be outsourced under the law. Those who violate the law are subject to up to three years in prison or a fine of 20 million won.
Korean Air currently employs 397 non-Korean pilots on a contract basis through eight employment agencies abroad.
They account for about 15.5 percent of the company’s total 2,550.
They usually sign a 5-year contract and receive wages from employment agencies. Flight schedules, training, holidays and other work-related matters are supervised by Korean Air.
Korea’s other flagship carrier Asiana Airlines employs 121 foreign pilots in the same way.
Conflicting views
The pilot union welcomed the labor office’s latest move, urging the prosecution to indict the airline.
“Even though the labor office forwarded the case to prosecutors eight months after our complaint was filed, we still welcome its decision. It is time for law enforcement authorities to take appropriate actions,” said Park Byoung-lyoul, secretary general of the Korean Air Flight Crew Union.
In 2003, the pilot union filed the same complaint to the labor office, which referred the case to the prosecution. Since the job placement agencies were based in foreign countries the complaint was not pursued.
Park said if prosecutors decided not to indict again, the union will initiate alternative legal action.
“It is not too late for the company to admit that its employment of foreign pilots is against the law. Korean Air should hire non-Korean aviators on a permanent basis and establish its own pilot training program as soon as possible to meet growing air travel demand,” he said.
In response Korean Air dismissed the pilot union’s claims, insisting that its hiring system of foreign pilots does not fall under the Dispatched Workers’ Protection Law because job placement agencies are registered overseas. “There is nothing wrong with our hiring system. We were cleared of the same charge brought by the union in 2003. Also, the law was primarily designed to protect low-income, non-permanent workers, not pilots who can earn up to 200 million won ($190,000) a year,” a Korean Air spokesman said.
He said the majority of non-Korean pilots want to be employed on a temporary basis.
“The company also needs to hire foreign aviators on a contract basis to more flexibly manage its workforce in accordance with economic cycles. If we are forced to dismiss all foreign pilots at once, 30 of our airplanes will be grounded, which will have a huge negative impact on economic activities here,” the spokesman said.
[email protected]
Korean Air faces indictment over practice of hiring foreign pilots
By Lee Hyo-sik
The labor ministry has asked the prosecution to indict Korean Air, the nation’s largest flagship carrier, claiming its hiring practice of foreign pilots was “illegal.”
The Seoul Southern District Labor Office said Friday that it had thoroughly reviewed a complaint filed by unionized workers of Korean Air. It added that it would refer the case to the prosecution.
“We concluded that the airline’s method of employing non-Korean pilots violates the domestic law concerning the rights of dispatched workers. We asked the prosecution to indict Korean Air for hiring foreign aviators in an unlawful manner,” the labor office said.
On Dec. 31, the Korean Air Flight Crew Union complained to the office about the company’s hiring practice of foreign pilots. The union accused Korean Air of illegally employing nearly 400 non-Korean pilots as non-regular workers via job placement agencies overseas. This violates the “Dispatched Workers’ Protection Law.”
It said a pilot is not one of the 32 occupations that are allowed to be outsourced under the law. Those who violate the law are subject to up to three years in prison or a fine of 20 million won.
Korean Air currently employs 397 non-Korean pilots on a contract basis through eight employment agencies abroad.
They account for about 15.5 percent of the company’s total 2,550.
They usually sign a 5-year contract and receive wages from employment agencies. Flight schedules, training, holidays and other work-related matters are supervised by Korean Air.
Korea’s other flagship carrier Asiana Airlines employs 121 foreign pilots in the same way.
Conflicting views
The pilot union welcomed the labor office’s latest move, urging the prosecution to indict the airline.
“Even though the labor office forwarded the case to prosecutors eight months after our complaint was filed, we still welcome its decision. It is time for law enforcement authorities to take appropriate actions,” said Park Byoung-lyoul, secretary general of the Korean Air Flight Crew Union.
In 2003, the pilot union filed the same complaint to the labor office, which referred the case to the prosecution. Since the job placement agencies were based in foreign countries the complaint was not pursued.
Park said if prosecutors decided not to indict again, the union will initiate alternative legal action.
“It is not too late for the company to admit that its employment of foreign pilots is against the law. Korean Air should hire non-Korean aviators on a permanent basis and establish its own pilot training program as soon as possible to meet growing air travel demand,” he said.
In response Korean Air dismissed the pilot union’s claims, insisting that its hiring system of foreign pilots does not fall under the Dispatched Workers’ Protection Law because job placement agencies are registered overseas. “There is nothing wrong with our hiring system. We were cleared of the same charge brought by the union in 2003. Also, the law was primarily designed to protect low-income, non-permanent workers, not pilots who can earn up to 200 million won ($190,000) a year,” a Korean Air spokesman said.
He said the majority of non-Korean pilots want to be employed on a temporary basis.
“The company also needs to hire foreign aviators on a contract basis to more flexibly manage its workforce in accordance with economic cycles. If we are forced to dismiss all foreign pilots at once, 30 of our airplanes will be grounded, which will have a huge negative impact on economic activities here,” the spokesman said.
[email protected]