EasyJet Hiring Experienced Pilots anytime soon?
for all those thinking of beating a door to easy jet consider the following
"Crew costs continue to be a key area of management focus with significant opportunities for efficiency improvements in the medium term."
NSF did not write it.....the easy board did. They hate fixed rostering etc.
Expect any recruitment to be on the 'you should be so grateful to have a job line...' ....and I for one would not discount DEC's.
"Crew costs continue to be a key area of management focus with significant opportunities for efficiency improvements in the medium term."
NSF did not write it.....the easy board did. They hate fixed rostering etc.
Expect any recruitment to be on the 'you should be so grateful to have a job line...' ....and I for one would not discount DEC's.
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So life in the sandpit may be a wonder and delight to many, and I can only wish them well in their new-found utopia. It is a one-way transaction and so it is good they do enjoy it, as they will not be coming back to an airline job in the UK any time soon.
I could not disagree more. It certainly does not have to be a one-way transaction. After being made redundant, I went to the sandpit 18 months ago and I came back to the UK this year to commence employment with a UK operator. Throughout the entire period from redundancy to working abroad and to where I am now, I not only kept my Command but remained a Line Trainer as well.
Funnily enough, when I was last at work, the chap sitting beside me in the flight deck had a similar story to tell as well, since he too had recently returned from lands afar!
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It is a one-way transaction and so it is good they do enjoy it, as they will not be coming back to an airline job in the UK any time soon.
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......................Why not?
Could it be that management (i.e. NSF's puppet masters) are slowly getting nervous about 2011 crewing levels now that more and more people are openly disagreeing with NSF's eternal love for EZY, and are starting to look elsewhere? If it turns out to be true that lot's of people will vote with their feet and take off for Emirates or Etihad in the near future, then perhaps the foundations for another summer of madness will be in place for 2011?
While I do agree with NSF that most Middle Eastern airlines are probably no real alternative to improving one's life (I wouldn't touch EK or EY with a 10' barge pole) it is utter nonsense that leaving to an airline outside the UK is like crossing a point of no return. It's just scaremongering...
p.s. for anyone wanting to join on a fixed roster: after 2010 the thin edge of the wedge is firmly in place for flexible rostering (thanks in part to those naive traitors who sold their soul to the devil!) so count on the fixed roster pattern to disappear within a few years or so!
p.p.s. Joining as an experienced F/O? Forget it! Why pay an experienced F/O bananas if you can pay a cadet peanuts?
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p.s. for anyone wanting to join on a fixed roster: after 2010 the thin edge of the wedge is firmly in place for flexible rostering (thanks in part to those naive traitors who sold their soul to the devil!) so count on the fixed roster pattern to disappear within a few years or so!
p.p.s. Joining as an experienced F/O? Forget it! Why pay an experienced F/O bananas if you can pay a cadet peanuts?
p.p.s. Joining as an experienced F/O? Forget it! Why pay an experienced F/O bananas if you can pay a cadet peanuts?
Looks like I'll keep watching those whirlie things spin around outside my window and marvel in amazement as I see those shiney tubes climb through FL250.
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the Cadets don't get paid peanuts they send management Cashews!
The fixed rosters will not be given up without a monumental fight......
By testing the water this summer, management have firmly inserted the thin end of the wedge up everyone's rectum and probably concluded that x% of people are stupid and desperate enough to sell out their colleagues and put up with a random roster in return for a few extra bananas.
Similar to the outmaneuvering of BALPA by offering local contracts to the new MAD base a few years ago, could it perhaps be that in the foreseeable future bases will be crewed with a 'take it or leave it' random roster contract?
There are always enough spineless people desperate enough to stick a knife in their colleagues back in return for a quick(er) upgrade or if you are a cadet with enough cashews to pay for it: a real 'McJob' with a genuine 'career' airline!
I have just been reading through all these posts and find it interesting how many think that everything in Easy is doom and gloom.
I have been an SFO with easy for 3 1/2 years, I have seen some good and bad things. I worked for another company before and I can tell you now there will no airline where everything will be perfect. The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there.
I have been fortunate that I got a DEP position with easy when I joined the airline. I was told then that there had to be a balance between senior and junior pilots for insurance purposes. Wether that is true or not I don't know, but it worked out well for me. Will this ever come back is a good question. There are definitely quite a few SFO's leaving for the desert, upgrades of SFO's, rumours of BA starting to recruit again, etc but then there is also the threat of stagnation in expansion which will leave FO's sitting longer in the RHS.
Overall Easy will have to do something to keep the experience level up, so in that sense I am hopeful for new joiners or those who are on summer contracts, that better contracts will be offered.
I still believe that easyjet has the potential to be one of the best airlines to work for in Europe. Things need to change, but I think that that message is coming through now.
I have been an SFO with easy for 3 1/2 years, I have seen some good and bad things. I worked for another company before and I can tell you now there will no airline where everything will be perfect. The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there.
I have been fortunate that I got a DEP position with easy when I joined the airline. I was told then that there had to be a balance between senior and junior pilots for insurance purposes. Wether that is true or not I don't know, but it worked out well for me. Will this ever come back is a good question. There are definitely quite a few SFO's leaving for the desert, upgrades of SFO's, rumours of BA starting to recruit again, etc but then there is also the threat of stagnation in expansion which will leave FO's sitting longer in the RHS.
Overall Easy will have to do something to keep the experience level up, so in that sense I am hopeful for new joiners or those who are on summer contracts, that better contracts will be offered.
I still believe that easyjet has the potential to be one of the best airlines to work for in Europe. Things need to change, but I think that that message is coming through now.
Last edited by pilotsince99; 23rd Aug 2010 at 10:55. Reason: spelling....
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post # 17
NSF - I fear that the part of your post relating to a return to UK is possibly quite true. The majority of pilots who've ended up out in the sandpit over the past 12-18 months are there because they were either at bust airlines or those downsizing and it was the best offer on the table by some margin (my situation). The post as a a whole seems very self-satisfied but the last paragraph is just unbelievable and unwarranted.
There were 2 airlines with a significant presence in UK that were recruiting (one of them in a big way it seems from your post). Both airlines consistently either ignored those (experienced) pilots or tried to get them employed on ridiculously poor contracts heavily weighted to the employer.
The next batch of UK pilots going out to the ME will be going there with the lure of a better job and for more positive reasons (unless another airline goes belly up) so maybe the attitude of your last para would then be more justifiable.
No matter how you spin it, the ambition to drive down Ts & Cs in the LoCo's has significantly benefitted the Middle Eastern airlines and pushed a lot of experienced pilots overseas. It begs the question then; why, if EZY is recruiting next year, should it be so impossible for experienced UK pilots to get back the the UK anytime soon?
Spanner
So life in the sandpit may be a wonder and delight to many, and I can only wish them well in their new-found utopia. It is a one-way transaction and so it is good they do enjoy it, as they will not be coming back to an airline job in the UK any time soon.
There were 2 airlines with a significant presence in UK that were recruiting (one of them in a big way it seems from your post). Both airlines consistently either ignored those (experienced) pilots or tried to get them employed on ridiculously poor contracts heavily weighted to the employer.
The next batch of UK pilots going out to the ME will be going there with the lure of a better job and for more positive reasons (unless another airline goes belly up) so maybe the attitude of your last para would then be more justifiable.
No matter how you spin it, the ambition to drive down Ts & Cs in the LoCo's has significantly benefitted the Middle Eastern airlines and pushed a lot of experienced pilots overseas. It begs the question then; why, if EZY is recruiting next year, should it be so impossible for experienced UK pilots to get back the the UK anytime soon?
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On closer examination, the tone of the last paragraph is rather unfortunate. As my grandmother said to me 'may your words be few and well chosen'.
It is on the verge of being unprofessional when a member of the training department says:
To publicly classify one of your potential line trainees as not being a 'proper' pilot is not suitable on a public forum such as this. You could have easily have reworded that sentence to achieve the same effect yet not cause any potential offense to any of the Flexicrew entrants. Some contributors have revealed that some experienced Airbus pilots have joined on 'Flexi' terms this summer. If I was in such a position then I would be a 'tad miffed' if I was being classed as an inferior crew member.
Now that is a rather cantankerous and arrogant statement. Those that I know at FlyBe do not feel 'marooned' and are happy with their lot. FlyBe and easyJet have the following in common. Neither are the best nor are they the worst to work for. Both have many who are happy and both have a fair number who would wish to move on.
Just to reiterate from my previous post, I am proof that the door is far from closed for 'ex-pats' being able to return home and work again in the UK.
It is on the verge of being unprofessional when a member of the training department says:
It is my sincere hope that we will start recruiting 'proper' pilots again soon.
I wish all those marooned at FlyBe and the likes every success in their search for better things.
Just to reiterate from my previous post, I am proof that the door is far from closed for 'ex-pats' being able to return home and work again in the UK.
""Now that is a rather cantankerous and arrogant statement. Those that I know at FlyBe do not feel 'marooned' and are happy with their lot. FlyBe and easyJet have the following in common. Neither are the best nor are they the worst to work for. Both have many who are happy and both have a fair number who would wish to move on.""
If easy recruited DEP and put the Q400 inthe approved list they would be trampled if the rush from Flybe!!
Easy have an advanced product to Flybe and for their hard work easypilots get 20 to 30 grand a year more and better t&c!!
Most Flybe pilots have eyes and cv's elsewhere and that's from both seats!!
Last edited by Serenity; 23rd Aug 2010 at 12:30.
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Don't listen to NSF!
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Doug the Head - always a pleasure. As one who hates and despises easyJet, which of course you are entitled to do, what mystifies me is why you are still here. There are numerous opportunities to go elsewhere, and some great guys are heading off out the door of easyJet. Why are you not joining them? You feel I have some relationship with our management that simply does not exist, but we are all entitled to our little fantasies to brighten up those dark nights at easyJet. I have a realistic view of life here - which includes both the good and the bad. For all its numerous hassles, I fundamentally enjoy it and will therefore stay. You hate it and therefore you should leave - it really is that simple.
Love them or hate them, our managers are the people with whom we have to deal. I do not like our Ops Director any more than any other pilot at easyJet, but have no doubt he will be soon be drying his eyes on Fifty Pound notes on the way out the door. My point is that all airlines are full of money-grabbing, bonus-hunting losers trying to make a quick buck over two or three years before clearing off to their next burglary. All airlines are also full of whining, bleating negative pilots who have hated every company they have ever worked for and would only be happy if their company went bankrupt - you are that man Doug. The idea that easyJet is the only company in that category is clearly nonsense and I am therefore happy to fight it out here.
There is much pontificating on here about the evils of low-cost and that is fine if that is what floats your boat. The fact is that there are literally thousands of pilots in jet jobs now who would never had had them were it not for low-cost. Does that mean we should accept the constant attacks on our terms and conditions? Absolutely not. Does that mean that we should accept the crazy and ludicrous actions of incompetent managers who can save thousands but lose millions through their own foolishness? Not a chance. What it does mean is taking part in credible and professional dialogue with the team you have to play against, rather than the one you wish you were playing instead. What gives me so little patience for this constant negative 'I hate easyJet' drivel is that it is completely problem-centric rather than offering solutions to the real difficulties we face. That does not mean we should deny the existence of the problems, but it does mean we should work to see them resolved rather than throw our hands in the air and just surrender without a fight.
So go on Doug, and your numpty mate superced - get a proper job in Utopian Airways where your 'talents' will be fully appreciated, they will pay you twice as money for doing half the work, give you 10 weeks' leave in the summer and pay 25% into your pension and give you bonuses just like the management. I know that company is out there - I keep looking every week in Flight International but somehow the advert just keeps getting ripped out before the postman delivers it.
Love them or hate them, our managers are the people with whom we have to deal. I do not like our Ops Director any more than any other pilot at easyJet, but have no doubt he will be soon be drying his eyes on Fifty Pound notes on the way out the door. My point is that all airlines are full of money-grabbing, bonus-hunting losers trying to make a quick buck over two or three years before clearing off to their next burglary. All airlines are also full of whining, bleating negative pilots who have hated every company they have ever worked for and would only be happy if their company went bankrupt - you are that man Doug. The idea that easyJet is the only company in that category is clearly nonsense and I am therefore happy to fight it out here.
There is much pontificating on here about the evils of low-cost and that is fine if that is what floats your boat. The fact is that there are literally thousands of pilots in jet jobs now who would never had had them were it not for low-cost. Does that mean we should accept the constant attacks on our terms and conditions? Absolutely not. Does that mean that we should accept the crazy and ludicrous actions of incompetent managers who can save thousands but lose millions through their own foolishness? Not a chance. What it does mean is taking part in credible and professional dialogue with the team you have to play against, rather than the one you wish you were playing instead. What gives me so little patience for this constant negative 'I hate easyJet' drivel is that it is completely problem-centric rather than offering solutions to the real difficulties we face. That does not mean we should deny the existence of the problems, but it does mean we should work to see them resolved rather than throw our hands in the air and just surrender without a fight.
So go on Doug, and your numpty mate superced - get a proper job in Utopian Airways where your 'talents' will be fully appreciated, they will pay you twice as money for doing half the work, give you 10 weeks' leave in the summer and pay 25% into your pension and give you bonuses just like the management. I know that company is out there - I keep looking every week in Flight International but somehow the advert just keeps getting ripped out before the postman delivers it.
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Genuine Question
Something that has always caught my eye about EasyJet's T&Cs is the 90% salary for six months after gaining command, whether DEC or internal upgrade. I am intrigued to know firstly how managent spin their justification of this and secondly why this was ever accepted/tolerated by the pilots or Balpa or their predecessors.
Just to repeat this a genuine question.
Just to repeat this a genuine question.
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And with many trainers complaining that they are having to teach FlexiCrew guys basic handling skills one wonders how long before the situation is reviewed. Not so long ago 1500 hrs turbo prop was required before one got any where near a jet.
I just wonder where guys & gals with so called third tier operators now move on to.
Binder
I just wonder where guys & gals with so called third tier operators now move on to.
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Superced - you managed a whole sentence this time. Congratulations.
Binder - since the dawn of the airline industry, trainers have had to teach basic handling skills to low-houred pilots. The same could be said of British Airways guys and the numerous other airlines who take on cadets. There is, however, the wider issue of the limited employment practices we have used for the past few years. My own view is that we have made a huge mistake taking such high quantities of cadets rather than employing some genuinely experienced people from a wider variety of backgrounds. Specifically we should have taken turboprop and military pilots - neither groups of which we have touched for some years now.
Starbear - the 50% for 6 months has been the case for many years now (at least 7 but maybe longer). In recent times, the temporary contracts on offer have been different in that you get 100% from the start plus an additional £2k/month for 5 months. Many captains have done very well on that scheme and are now nearly all on permanent contracts having missed out on the 90% bit at the beginning.
Regarding the issue of returning from the desert to the UK, the issue is that few companies are currently recruiting experienced pilots. Therefore the way back to the UK that existed a few years ago is simply not there. That is no reflection on the quality of the individuals - we have some great ex-Emirates guys working for us. It is merely stating the reality of the situation right now. That may of course change, but right now the situation is not good for a return to Blighty.
EasyJet is not for everyone. There are nonethelss significant numbers of pilots who like working there despite the ups and downs of our summer programme this year. I look in Flight International every week like we all do, but I just do not see a host of fantastic jobs out there that would be better than the one I already have.
Binder - since the dawn of the airline industry, trainers have had to teach basic handling skills to low-houred pilots. The same could be said of British Airways guys and the numerous other airlines who take on cadets. There is, however, the wider issue of the limited employment practices we have used for the past few years. My own view is that we have made a huge mistake taking such high quantities of cadets rather than employing some genuinely experienced people from a wider variety of backgrounds. Specifically we should have taken turboprop and military pilots - neither groups of which we have touched for some years now.
Starbear - the 50% for 6 months has been the case for many years now (at least 7 but maybe longer). In recent times, the temporary contracts on offer have been different in that you get 100% from the start plus an additional £2k/month for 5 months. Many captains have done very well on that scheme and are now nearly all on permanent contracts having missed out on the 90% bit at the beginning.
Regarding the issue of returning from the desert to the UK, the issue is that few companies are currently recruiting experienced pilots. Therefore the way back to the UK that existed a few years ago is simply not there. That is no reflection on the quality of the individuals - we have some great ex-Emirates guys working for us. It is merely stating the reality of the situation right now. That may of course change, but right now the situation is not good for a return to Blighty.
EasyJet is not for everyone. There are nonethelss significant numbers of pilots who like working there despite the ups and downs of our summer programme this year. I look in Flight International every week like we all do, but I just do not see a host of fantastic jobs out there that would be better than the one I already have.