The solution?
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FANS, are you radio rental?
And since when has BALPA been for selection based on merit? I don't see many people jumping the seniority queue at BA for promotion to the LHS, because its all based on the irrelevance of time served rather than actual suitability for the job...
And since when has BALPA been for selection based on merit? I don't see many people jumping the seniority queue at BA for promotion to the LHS, because its all based on the irrelevance of time served rather than actual suitability for the job...
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Ok Stanstead, I think we understand each other. I'm sure there are doddering old fools who scare you witless. Similarly I have had the experience of flying with 20 something wizzkids in the LHS who are in charge of a multimillion dollar jet primarily because they joined the company on the right day. Some of them are very good and are a pleasure to fly with. One or two have been overwhelmingly arrogant and one was a danger to all around him. This had less to do with actual age as maturity and attitude. The argument works both ways and cannot be applied to any one group. Sadly, many in this business will write you off once you get to a certain number of years. Aviation is the only business I know of which demands (or used to) ability and experience to gain entry and then ignores it in favour of date of joining for the rest of your career. The system may have some merit in a "job for life" situation but how many airlines count themselves in that category theses days? BA maybe but even there those days may be over.
I understand your point about FMC based aircraft. I started in this game in my mid 30's and have flown little else, including the A320 series. Maybe an engineering background helped. IMHO if you can fly, you can fly. The presence or absence of an FMC or sidestick makes little difference. If you are struggling with a Seneca, you will probably struggle with anything else.
We're all individuals at the end of the day. Some glide through life, some have to struggle for every little crumb. C'est la Vie.
Thank you for your sentiments. Maybe I will get a break one day.
I am not holding my breath.
I understand your point about FMC based aircraft. I started in this game in my mid 30's and have flown little else, including the A320 series. Maybe an engineering background helped. IMHO if you can fly, you can fly. The presence or absence of an FMC or sidestick makes little difference. If you are struggling with a Seneca, you will probably struggle with anything else.
We're all individuals at the end of the day. Some glide through life, some have to struggle for every little crumb. C'est la Vie.
Thank you for your sentiments. Maybe I will get a break one day.
I am not holding my breath.
Last edited by northern boy; 23rd Jun 2010 at 21:32.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Captjns,
I get the point your making and agree - but may I humbly suggest that a better analysis would be "the number of accidents caused (directly) by P2F Vs. the number of accidents where no crew member was P2F".
The fact is that right now there are very very few "incidents" attributable to P2F. And even if those were held under the spotlight, those who would promote P2F would be able to point out a far higher number of similar/worse incidents that have occurred where there is no tie whatsoever to P2F.
P2F is odious and a curse both to those already in the industry AND those seeking to be in....but the bottom line - and a common misconception is that schemes such as that which EJ runs with CTC/OAA, are NOT "have you got the money? well, WELCOME ONBOARD!"
This may apply to pure P2F schemes such as Eaglejet (pay your money and you're in), but there's not much more than circumstantial evidence that those who have joined easyJet this year wouldn't have passed assessment anyway in better times and had a fully funded rating...
I get the point your making and agree - but may I humbly suggest that a better analysis would be "the number of accidents caused (directly) by P2F Vs. the number of accidents where no crew member was P2F".
The fact is that right now there are very very few "incidents" attributable to P2F. And even if those were held under the spotlight, those who would promote P2F would be able to point out a far higher number of similar/worse incidents that have occurred where there is no tie whatsoever to P2F.
P2F is odious and a curse both to those already in the industry AND those seeking to be in....but the bottom line - and a common misconception is that schemes such as that which EJ runs with CTC/OAA, are NOT "have you got the money? well, WELCOME ONBOARD!"
This may apply to pure P2F schemes such as Eaglejet (pay your money and you're in), but there's not much more than circumstantial evidence that those who have joined easyJet this year wouldn't have passed assessment anyway in better times and had a fully funded rating...
Join Date: Jan 2006
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clanger32
I agree the pay to play or pay to fly scheme is one of the many banes of our industry.
At the end of the day, FANS is merely a troll creating a sh1t storm without justification of his point to suggest that a BALPA first officer is a better "product" vs. a non BALPA first officer.
I agree the pay to play or pay to fly scheme is one of the many banes of our industry.
At the end of the day, FANS is merely a troll creating a sh1t storm without justification of his point to suggest that a BALPA first officer is a better "product" vs. a non BALPA first officer.
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Yes, strange how so many seem oblivious to the fact that there will be god awful pilots out there who were fully funded and P2F Pilots who are superb and anything in between....
Also strange how many see P2F as "a cancer" for those already IN aviation, but not as one that also affects those who feel it is their only route in. Not defending it, but it ain't nice to know that you're into "pay up, or forget you ever had a licence" either...
Also strange how many see P2F as "a cancer" for those already IN aviation, but not as one that also affects those who feel it is their only route in. Not defending it, but it ain't nice to know that you're into "pay up, or forget you ever had a licence" either...
