Anybody who has left this career and done something different?

[Uncle Wiggily]

I was just curious if there is anybody out there that has left the pilot career and moved into a different career? Maybe it was multiple redundancies or lack of basic human rights (terms and conditions), or you simply found a better way to make a living that caused you to seek alternative employment?

Please do not use this as a place to degrade those who chose to walk away from airline flying. Every person has a valid reason and in many cases it takes a fair amount of courage to leave behind a career that we may have been doing for many, many years.

Thank you.

[Deaf Tortoise]

In our company I can think of two people who have recently left.

Both were experienced First Officers, (though one was about to start
the command conversion course), and both have returned to their previous professional careers.

The first to dentistry (drilling for gold) who said that he could earn the same in 3 to 4 days a week, with hours to suit himself.
The second to an aviation related Law firm in the City.

They are both good people, both good pilots, but felt
that their previous careers were more rewarding after all.

Perhaps if they read Pprune they will comment later....

[Caboclo]

I know of one person who left. She had a degree and some experience in something else, I think engineering of some sort. Wasn't happy flying, and got a job with an oil company for a lot more $$. I think she was one of those for whom flying became work as soon as it became her job.

I am seriously considering leaving within the next year. I previously drove trucks to pay for flight school. After 7 years in aviation, I'm still $10K/year short of what I was making in the truck. Given that I have no jet time, and refuse to work for an RJ FO's salary, I have very little expectation of ever moving up in this industry. I'll sure miss the flying, but having some extra money will be very nice.

[Buter]

I will be leaving within the year.

I will rely on a combination of my own company and my old career (commercial diving/salvage) to , hopefully, bring in enough money to keep the bankers away from the house, beer in the fridge and the kids out of the sweat shop. With a reasonable amount of business coming my way and 4-5 salvage jobs a year, I should be able to live like a rock star. However, nothing in life is guaranteed, and leaving what is, for all intents and purposes, a secure income is always a scary experience.

My personal reason for leaving is simple: I do not enjoy the job, I find it extremely boring. Add to this the hassle of commuting to work (my own choice, I recognize), a recent pay cut, spiteful cabin crew, constant industrial unrest and a pension defecit the size of J-Lo's ass hanging over the company I now actually dread going to work.

A side reason for leaving is the money. While most folks would say that I earn a decent living, I do not feel that they pay received is anywhere near enough to compensate any of us for the disruption this job causes to our lives (Jersey based Flybe pilots exempted, of course). This is where the learned will bleat on about supply and demand and market rates; they are 100% correct, but this does not change, in any way, shape or form, the second sentance of this paragraph.

7 years in I can definitely say that flying is not for me. I am saddened by anyone who tells me that they are training to be a professional pilot as I am sure that the image they have in their head does not match the reality of the job. Having said that, I do not give my opinion unless asked for it and, even then, I try to present a balanced view that leans towards the negative - the fact that I wish to leave says enough to the educated.

If you are still passionate about this job after x years, my hat is off to you and I hope that there will be more like yourselves recruited into this job (the lack of the word 'profession' and 'career' has been intended throughout this little rant).

If you are like me and sit there staring at screens, dials, guages or whatever, and would really rather be putting in the time elsewhere, you have my sympathy and I hope that you are at least exploring your alternatives.

I do not begrudge the job in any way, I just do not want to do it any longer.

Sorry for de rant, mon.

Cheers

Buter

[ab33t]

Im trying to juggle three different jobs , a bit here and a bit there to survive while trying to keep my aviation career going ...... Im failing dismaly , a decision will have to be made soon and focus on that .

[Uncle Wiggily]

Buter: No need to apologize for what you termed a "rant." It wasn't a rant, but honest observations. I appreciate it, really.

Best of luck in your new profession.

[northern boy]

A word to all those hoping to enter this industry from other fields.

You need to be lucky to get on. The industry, with few exceptions, is ruled by an archaic "Buggins turn" mentality which mean that unlike any other industry, advancement depends not on experience or ability but solely on the day you happened to join.

After 15 years of never managing to be in the right place at the right time, I am now on reduced salary, and staring at redundancy if things don't improve. Now in my 50's with no chance of the LHS before retirement even if I survive the coming cull, I bitterly regret the waste of years and would do something else in an instant. Sadly, once the big five zero is passed you are right at the bottom of the list and even wearing an orange apron at B & Q is an impossible dream.

The industry is effectively closed to anyone over voting age who is not prepared to mortgage the rest of their lives for a six month unpaid contract. Anyone who has flown before is an expensive and unwanted waste of space to the airline accountants who see the FO seat as just a source of income.

The cheap oil has gone, taking with it the business plans of many airlines, no one in their right mind would contemplate a start up, the industry is attacked from all quarters, being rated worse than child abuse in in one memorable Guardian rant, and is in all likelihood in it's last years as a mass travel option, unless an alternative source of fuel can be found and approved.

So don't leave a good profession for this veil of misery. If you do, make sure you have the luck to be in the right place at the right time, every time or you will finish up as bitter and passed over as I so obviously am.

Leave for something else? I'd love to. Nothing to go to and after the budget there will be even less. My advice would be to emigrate.

[FANS]

thanks for an honest post NB, but haven't you enjoyed your time flying compared to what else you could've been doing?

Money is just one part of the equation, as the shine soon comes off that new car.

[northern boy]

Yes, I enjoy flying but I have come to detest the industry. I could have made a lot more and had more self respect if I had remained an engineer. Redundancy is not a happy prospect at my age. Neither is having "missed the boat" and remaining a nobody due to unlucky timing rather than any failing on my part. Especially when one's peers are all enjoying commands elsewhere.

Bitter? certainly. If I fell into a barrel of tits I'd come out sucking my thumb..

[RHINO]

Find three barrels of tits......your luck might just change!

PMSL

[Guttn]

Flying is fun is you are doing private flying. Professional flying is nowhere near what you think when you are learning to fly. Actually, the term professional, should not be attached to the term commercial flying. The industry, and that is exactly what it is, is filled to the rim with people trying to get the edge on the next guy. Backstabbing seems to be the norm, but still frowned upon by those who have flying jobs. T&Cs are continuing down the drain. Supply and demand, of course, but there are just too many pilots competing for about zero jobs. Scumbag airlines exploiting fresh out of flightschool pilots and offering them 6 month contracts which the new guys pay for, under the term "line training". All this does is worsen the jobmarket for the next guy and so on. The bar is higher and higher when it comes to getting hired as the, say, 500hr time on type is quite common. But, don`t get me wrong. I`m still flying for a living, as I am too stupid not to have spent time on a real education. And yes, I do love my job and am extremely fortunate to have it. But I also see very clearly what has happened the last 10 years. And at the moment I can not encourage anyone to begin this line of work. It`s still getting worse, but should be close to rock bottom, when people understand that there are no jobs out there anymore and hopefully fewer and fewer take this route. It`s the beancounters` market for sure.

[EpsilonVaz]

Just to add contrast to the inevitable negativity here, I am a relatively new F/O (2 years) and I regularly fly with Captains over 60 who have been flying for many, many years. The vast majority of them (say 95%) are still very happy and could not imagine themselves having done anything else.

It really is all down to the individual, you get some that just moan moan moan about the company and complain about how awful things are, they are the ones who really don't like the industry. Of course, we all like to have a little moan about the company/politics/etc, but you can easily tell those who let things get in the way of enjoying their job.

[PPRuNeUser0173]

I left the airline industry in 2006 and just do a small bit of instructing now and again which satisfies my need to fly. Previously I worked in Avionics Engineering before getting my ATPL.

Got fed up with the lack of control of my life, working shifts which gets harder as you get older and dealing with "security" staff - some of them being rather unpleasant. I only flew for the UK regionals and don't regret working in the industry - infact I enjoyed it in the main but recognised when it was time to stop.

Fortunately I have everything I want and manage to survive financially from my property rental business income and wifeys income combined. We don't owe any money, and for that I am truly thankful.

If asked "would I do it again" the answer is a firm No! Not under current conditions ie P2F etc. I was bonded of course but that was a better system.

Just my two pennies worth.

[remoak]

The problem with a career as a pilot is that it's all about luck and timing, and not much else. I know guys who went from nothing to Bandeirante in 200 hours, and Bandeirante to 767 in another 200. They all had 767 commands at 3000 hours. Now that was at a good hiring time - the late '80s. In the early '90s, there were people who had invested 100K in training and had absolutely no chance of a job... a lot of them bought type ratings and STILL couldn't find a job... many eventually chucked it in and did something else.

I had average luck, had a jet command pretty quickly but as I had absolutely no interest in long haul, my career was always going to be limited financially. Being a trainer and later Chief Pilot helped, and a few lucrative contracts were fun... but in the end, I got sick of getting up at 0400, never knowing exactly where I would end up each night or for how long I would be away, crap rosters, having my base moved every five minutes, very average hotels, and basically no life.

Some people love flying so much that they will willingly put up with that. I found that after 20 years of it, I had had enough and was ready for something else... so I started my own businesses, one aviation-based, one not, and do a bit of contract flying from time to time to keep my hand in.

Aviation certainly isn't the career it was when I started, and I doubt it will ever again be like it was in the golden days. The respect in which airline commanders are held has dwindled, pay and conditions have dwindled, and the buggeration factor has multiplied many times over. That, and the fact that sitting at FL360 all day with nothing to do but read the paper, isn't what I would call rewarding or fun.

No wonder the Asians don't want to do it, they don't care if all the white expats take the jobs, because they know they can make more money for less effort doing something else.

In the end, it depends which end of aviation you reside in. If you fly a type you like, do routes you enjoy, have the lifestyle you want, the money you need and the respect you deserve, then more power to your arm. If you don't (and most don't), there are worse things than doing something else... like waking up one day and realising that you don't know your wife and kids any more, that you can't remember what city this particular hotel is in, and that you are chronically tired all the time. That simply isn't fun (or worth it).

You pays your money and you makes your choice... and there is no shame if that choice is not an aircraft.

[tomkins]

Remoak
you mentioned 'the respect you deserve'.....surely respect is won by the man not the title?

[fiftypercentn1]

Why can t you accept that it s not about our business, but the whole world has changed?? flying is not what is used to be exactly like being a lawyer\judge\architect\engineer\doctor etc.. is not what it used to be. So when i hear people say "with the same effort i could have done something else and made a lot more money" ..in what world??? you go tell this to a 30 years old lawyer who is lucky enough of he gets payed at all, or an engineer who can t find a job anywhere, or a doctor who studied 15 years and makes 2k a month.

If someone fancies a change, more than welcome. But please remind yourself what world we live in..talk to young people in other businesses and you ll tell me.

Just a reality check.

[remoak]

surely respect is won by the man not the title

Absolutely... the problem is that many fine, professional skippers that I know ended up being treated like imbeciles, simply because they asserted their obligation to make a judgement call. I can remember a tyrannical female station manager trying to browbeat me into taking an F27 with a bald nose tyre to Guernsey, where it was wet with a howling crosswind. That is just stupid. Anyway, she complained to the Fleet Manager, who had me in for tea and bikkies. I took a BALPA guy with me... to cut a long story short, the Flight Ops Director congratulated me on a good call, and reamed out the Station Manager. Good outcome.

My point is, that in today's environment, you can have your decisions questioned by people with no expert knowledge, and it can escalate to the most ridiculous level, and you can find yourself in some trouble - all because you exercised the judgement that you were trained to exercise, and did the job you are paid to do. Many good captains are undermined on a regular basis, something that wouldn't have happened 20 years ago.

In my book, that is disrespectful.

So when i hear people say "with the same effort i could have done something else and made a lot more money" ..in what world???

In this world. Get yourself an MBA and go for it...

I know quite a few doctors and lawyers. None of them are poor.

[zerotohero]

I think about a different career every time I wake up at 4am after only a few proper hours sleep due tossing and turning, the drive to the airport I want to kill myself, security I want to kill everyone else, crew room I want to throw the printer out the window, ATC O my god I want to nuke them (Spain!) but once I get settled into the SID and see the view and roll the seat back and enjoy the sunrise with a glass of Orange Juice I think this is spot on and I am been paid a good few hundred pounds today to do this, if not more on long days, then I really enjoy it, battling with shortcuts and all that for an early arrival, wondering round the aircraft on the spin I think this is great, look at the machine I just flew.

BUT, I still wonder back to thoughts of been back in my own city working for myself again which was sooooo easy and about the same money, doing lunch with a few girlies most days, shopping in an evening, and generally living life fully.

I think this is not a 30 year deal for me but for now ill just bank some cash and take some hours and free trips round europe for a bit.

Its a crap job but its better than all the rest

[eagerbeaver1]

Zerotohero

Are you for real? Glass of orange juice whilst settling into a SID?

Lunch with girlies?

And paid a damn fine wage too.....

nutter.

[zerotohero]

The ones that tend to end at FL240 yea! not these London TMA 3000' jobbies!

O and the lunch with girlys is my previous job if you read a little closer.