Anybody who has left this career and done something different?
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When I started out considering a career, my first thought went to executive protection given my skill set...seemed like a noble career, putting my skills and life on the line for others...
Training with those in that profession, morphed my desire to fly for those same people, protecting them up in the air, rather then on the golf course or at lunch...
20 years of flying corporate taught me that very few held to the standards that I thought would be not only exemplified, but protected in an environment where money can buy the best..
I made a change a few years back...but I still hold to my standards...life is too short to compromise...somewhere there are people and organizations that want what we have to offer...your allowed to be a free agent and change teams...
Training with those in that profession, morphed my desire to fly for those same people, protecting them up in the air, rather then on the golf course or at lunch...
20 years of flying corporate taught me that very few held to the standards that I thought would be not only exemplified, but protected in an environment where money can buy the best..
I made a change a few years back...but I still hold to my standards...life is too short to compromise...somewhere there are people and organizations that want what we have to offer...your allowed to be a free agent and change teams...
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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This is a fantastic thread. I can relate to so much that is written here.
I still enjoy going flying and I love the aircraft i'm presently flying but I personally have reached a cross-roads in the past 12 months where I find i'm just not prepared to sacrifice anymore for this career...
I was recently made redundant, things worked out well - I found work before I was 'pushed' and was still given my redundancy payment well above the minimum required but my life has been turned upside down - will be away a lot/constantly knackered etc etc...I'm finding i'm questioning if it's worth it...
I don't want to leave this industry, I still have the passion, but i'm seriously contemplating a step backwards to a turbo-prop again - it was the biggest job satisfaction I've ever had, it was sociable, my colleagues were superb and the environment positive...simple, friendly and fun! I'm prepared to sacrifice earning potential for getting that back...
Cheers
JB
Don't go flying for a living, it just ruins a good hobby!
I was recently made redundant, things worked out well - I found work before I was 'pushed' and was still given my redundancy payment well above the minimum required but my life has been turned upside down - will be away a lot/constantly knackered etc etc...I'm finding i'm questioning if it's worth it...
I don't want to leave this industry, I still have the passion, but i'm seriously contemplating a step backwards to a turbo-prop again - it was the biggest job satisfaction I've ever had, it was sociable, my colleagues were superb and the environment positive...simple, friendly and fun! I'm prepared to sacrifice earning potential for getting that back...
Cheers
JB
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Question on Currency should you walk away for a bit
Should I take leave from flying for another field but want to keep my licence current in case I fancy another go later in life whats the min requirement for it?
IAA ATPL with 1500+ Jet as F/O
Guessing there will be an IR issue for Multi and Single crew, my IR is currently only valid for Multi Pilot under JAA, use my FAA for single engine anyway.
Answers on a postcard please.
Should I take leave from flying for another field but want to keep my licence current in case I fancy another go later in life whats the min requirement for it?
IAA ATPL with 1500+ Jet as F/O
Guessing there will be an IR issue for Multi and Single crew, my IR is currently only valid for Multi Pilot under JAA, use my FAA for single engine anyway.
Answers on a postcard please.
Educated Hillbilly
There is a saying, you don't realise what have got until you lose it.
I didn't enjoy my first multi crew job, 3 to 5 days down route at a time sometimes only flying five sectors in a week, a roster that changed every two days, early morning call outs; I was forced back into my previous career when I was laid off from the job. Contracting back in my old job, I now earn more than twice what I use to earn as a turboprop first officer; I now earn in a week more than I use to earn in a month as an FI.
But now I have to say I miss flying for a living and when I am stuck in that design office, every other moment is spent thinking how can I get back to flying for a living again.
Most will say keep your well paid job and fly for fun, well once you have flown something faster and heavier then just pottering around in a 152 doesn't quite hit the mark. The sort of thing I would enjoy flying for fun requires lottery winning levels of funding.
So while all of you may think you may be happier not flying, trust me you will miss it.
I didn't enjoy my first multi crew job, 3 to 5 days down route at a time sometimes only flying five sectors in a week, a roster that changed every two days, early morning call outs; I was forced back into my previous career when I was laid off from the job. Contracting back in my old job, I now earn more than twice what I use to earn as a turboprop first officer; I now earn in a week more than I use to earn in a month as an FI.
But now I have to say I miss flying for a living and when I am stuck in that design office, every other moment is spent thinking how can I get back to flying for a living again.
Most will say keep your well paid job and fly for fun, well once you have flown something faster and heavier then just pottering around in a 152 doesn't quite hit the mark. The sort of thing I would enjoy flying for fun requires lottery winning levels of funding.
So while all of you may think you may be happier not flying, trust me you will miss it.
Reading between the lines of most posters I think we can safely say this topic falls under the theory of 'Perception vs Reality.'
The unhappy young have a perception of the job which after a few years in they realise wasn't accurate.
The unhappy older have a 'rose tinted glasses' view of what the job was when they were younger. Enthusiasm abounded, and the negatives were dismissed at the time and have now been forgotten. (Which is a natural psychological reaction for everyone.)
This is my 3rd career. I work for a Major, make good money and work for one of the very few airlines in the world that continues to be profitable. Yes, I was lucky, and in the right place at the right time. But I did take the risk and backed myself.
The actual job is great. Everybody hates being away at some important time, getting up at some ridiculous hour, or sitting next to someone they dislike. Same same with the company. It is a fact that must be acknowledged (and then discarded until Contract bargaining time) that all airlines want to pay us all less and work harder. But if you want to continue being happy in the career these are things you can't let eat away at you everyday.
Take the good with the bad. And that is advice in EVERY career, not just aviation. I'm sure there are many idealistic lawyers, doctors, surgeons, bankers, engineers etc who had one perception of their job but quickly learnt it was an inaccurate one.
A problem with our career is that there is a lot of 'free time' - in cruise, or sitting in a cafe at the airport, or in your hotel room where we can and do dwell on it. Not just individually but also collectively. When that happens for me I just call a friend in the corporate world who I think has it better than me and it quickly fixes my illusion. I remind myself that while this trip might suck, or I don't gel with the person I'm flying with, or I'm away when something important happens, that next trip WILL be entirely different because it will be to somewhere else, or with different weather conditions and with a different person occupying the other seat. How many of my friends in different careers can say the same?
Sure conditions have eroded from what they were. They had to. But do I just have a grass is greener perception? Am I jealous because of what I think the Senior Managers at the top are trying to, or are doing to me and what I think they earn for what they do?
I could be doing pretty much any other career I cared to choose (and did). But I wonder if after 'X' amount of time doing it I would be having exactly the same thought process I have about my career now. I am certain the answer is 'yes'.
Make the most of what you have chosen, and don't waste time thinking the grass is greener, or ''if only i had...." It's human nature to, and it messes with us tooooo much!
M
The unhappy young have a perception of the job which after a few years in they realise wasn't accurate.
The unhappy older have a 'rose tinted glasses' view of what the job was when they were younger. Enthusiasm abounded, and the negatives were dismissed at the time and have now been forgotten. (Which is a natural psychological reaction for everyone.)
This is my 3rd career. I work for a Major, make good money and work for one of the very few airlines in the world that continues to be profitable. Yes, I was lucky, and in the right place at the right time. But I did take the risk and backed myself.
The actual job is great. Everybody hates being away at some important time, getting up at some ridiculous hour, or sitting next to someone they dislike. Same same with the company. It is a fact that must be acknowledged (and then discarded until Contract bargaining time) that all airlines want to pay us all less and work harder. But if you want to continue being happy in the career these are things you can't let eat away at you everyday.
Take the good with the bad. And that is advice in EVERY career, not just aviation. I'm sure there are many idealistic lawyers, doctors, surgeons, bankers, engineers etc who had one perception of their job but quickly learnt it was an inaccurate one.
A problem with our career is that there is a lot of 'free time' - in cruise, or sitting in a cafe at the airport, or in your hotel room where we can and do dwell on it. Not just individually but also collectively. When that happens for me I just call a friend in the corporate world who I think has it better than me and it quickly fixes my illusion. I remind myself that while this trip might suck, or I don't gel with the person I'm flying with, or I'm away when something important happens, that next trip WILL be entirely different because it will be to somewhere else, or with different weather conditions and with a different person occupying the other seat. How many of my friends in different careers can say the same?
Sure conditions have eroded from what they were. They had to. But do I just have a grass is greener perception? Am I jealous because of what I think the Senior Managers at the top are trying to, or are doing to me and what I think they earn for what they do?
I could be doing pretty much any other career I cared to choose (and did). But I wonder if after 'X' amount of time doing it I would be having exactly the same thought process I have about my career now. I am certain the answer is 'yes'.
Make the most of what you have chosen, and don't waste time thinking the grass is greener, or ''if only i had...." It's human nature to, and it messes with us tooooo much!
M
Last edited by mmmbop; 7th Jun 2010 at 21:42.
You can do something different and stay with a career in aviation. There are plenty of people who run businesses on the side. Sullenberger is a case in point. His co-pilot was building houses in his spare time.
If it is successful enough you can give up flying, but you do not have to. This is nothing new. Dynarod in the UK was started by a Pan Am flight engineer. I know of plenty of doctors, dentists and other professionals who combine in this way. So it is not limited to business people.
If it is successful enough you can give up flying, but you do not have to. This is nothing new. Dynarod in the UK was started by a Pan Am flight engineer. I know of plenty of doctors, dentists and other professionals who combine in this way. So it is not limited to business people.
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Great - there seem to be so many unhappy people in this business. Presumably they've all got their notice in and are about to go off and find true happiness elsewhere (good luck - take my word for it, almost everyone in western civilisation claims to be unhappy). This is great news! I love my job - its a privilege to do it and unless things are going wrong, 99% of the time there isn't much stress. So when all these guys leave for early retirement, there should be lots and lots of vacancies and mobility up the job ladder?
Somehow I don't think so.
Somehow I don't think so.
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Well said.
My partner works in banking and she hates it, all her friends in banking hate it, yeah the money is not bad but it only gets good if you put in 15 hr days 5 days a week and spend all of Sunday reading the FT to try and get an edge on your clients to make them money. Is any job out there perfect and well paid. Footballer, F1 driver.........maybe they still get stick from the media.
My partner works in banking and she hates it, all her friends in banking hate it, yeah the money is not bad but it only gets good if you put in 15 hr days 5 days a week and spend all of Sunday reading the FT to try and get an edge on your clients to make them money. Is any job out there perfect and well paid. Footballer, F1 driver.........maybe they still get stick from the media.
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mmmbop - I think that is the most accurate and realistic summary/post I've ever seen on ppune 
Actually I think it should be placed as a 'sticky' on the wannabe threads!
Actually I think it should be placed as a 'sticky' on the wannabe threads!
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A very interesting thread and the funny thing is i have been in a career outside aviation, dreamt of being a pilot so did the training, flew as an FO on a 737/3 for 2 years. By that time i was on the verge of leaving myself due to all the comments already mentioned, anti social hours, getting up at 04.00, worked most weekends, no control over time off, earning less as an FO than my previous career..........!
I was actually made redundant in 2009 so the choice was made easier for me, so i returned to my old career. Do you know what i found:
IT HAS CHANGED AS WELL! I think it is so easy to fall in to the trap of what ever industry you are in that yours is the only one that has changed. The WORLD has changed sadly and all companies now want more for less.
I am currently back in Medical sales, i am usually sat at my laptop by 06.30 - 7am doing emails or things that i have forgotten to do from the previous day that i remembered whilst trying to get to sleep.
I then leave the house and drive between 150-200 miles a day, my iPhone beeps with incoming emails all day, my salary is the same as i was being paid in 2003 before i trained to be a pilot.
I actually work on a daily basis with surgeons and i can assure you watching an operation that you have seen dozens of times before is no more stimulating than being in the cruise at FL370, most surgeons have to do private work as well in the evenings and on weekends to make up their money now, do a lot of moaning about the good old days, and as for the bureaucratic management in the NHS they have to put up with ....need i say more.
Lunch is eaten whilst driving and returning phone calls that i missed whilst being in theatre.
I get home around 6-6.30 pm so have done around 12hours by then. . I then have around 1 to 1.5hrs of admin and more emails to do after walking through the door, usually done by around 7.30 - 8pm. See my kids for about 15mins in the morning and about 15-20mins in the evening Mon-Fri. Get the weekends off, so you cram as much in as you can with everybody else trying to do the same in the 36 hour window before sunday depression kicks in and it is time to check the emails on Sunday evening to give you a fighting chance on Monday! All in all i reckon i do between 60-65hours a week. I am contracted to do 37.5, if i actually did that i would be dismissed for non performance as it would be impossible to do the job.
I get way more stressed in this job than i ever did in flying and that includes the sim. There is not a single day when i don't think about flying and miss it, and that is knowing the annoying things of working most weekends, crap hours and no control etc....would still be there in aviation but at least when you get off the plane your day is done, no emails, phone calls to deal with, you can actually switch off from it or i could....being off on a Tues, Wed and Thursday means i could take my son to school, go out for lunch with my wife, do some excercise! I didn't realise what i had until i had lost it. I think you have to make the best of what you have and make it work for you and your family.
Aviation like every industry has changed and for the worse! I think the thing with flying is that you have to pay and sacrifice so much to do it in the first place so people's expectations are much higher over a job where you do not have to pay £60-70k to do it!! For me i have already spent it so too late...
I am in very fortunate position where i will shortly be returning to flying and whilst it wont be perfect (what is??) i know now it will give me and my family more time together than the one that i am in now and maybe I'll appreciate it a little more. I know now that when i am moaning at 11.30pm on a Sat night on my way back from Faro that i can think of returning to a world of emails, stress and 5 x 13hr days anytime i like...No thanks.
Cheers
I was actually made redundant in 2009 so the choice was made easier for me, so i returned to my old career. Do you know what i found:
IT HAS CHANGED AS WELL! I think it is so easy to fall in to the trap of what ever industry you are in that yours is the only one that has changed. The WORLD has changed sadly and all companies now want more for less.
I am currently back in Medical sales, i am usually sat at my laptop by 06.30 - 7am doing emails or things that i have forgotten to do from the previous day that i remembered whilst trying to get to sleep.
I then leave the house and drive between 150-200 miles a day, my iPhone beeps with incoming emails all day, my salary is the same as i was being paid in 2003 before i trained to be a pilot.I actually work on a daily basis with surgeons and i can assure you watching an operation that you have seen dozens of times before is no more stimulating than being in the cruise at FL370, most surgeons have to do private work as well in the evenings and on weekends to make up their money now, do a lot of moaning about the good old days, and as for the bureaucratic management in the NHS they have to put up with ....need i say more.
Lunch is eaten whilst driving and returning phone calls that i missed whilst being in theatre.
I get home around 6-6.30 pm so have done around 12hours by then. . I then have around 1 to 1.5hrs of admin and more emails to do after walking through the door, usually done by around 7.30 - 8pm. See my kids for about 15mins in the morning and about 15-20mins in the evening Mon-Fri. Get the weekends off, so you cram as much in as you can with everybody else trying to do the same in the 36 hour window before sunday depression kicks in and it is time to check the emails on Sunday evening to give you a fighting chance on Monday! All in all i reckon i do between 60-65hours a week. I am contracted to do 37.5, if i actually did that i would be dismissed for non performance as it would be impossible to do the job.
I get way more stressed in this job than i ever did in flying and that includes the sim. There is not a single day when i don't think about flying and miss it, and that is knowing the annoying things of working most weekends, crap hours and no control etc....would still be there in aviation but at least when you get off the plane your day is done, no emails, phone calls to deal with, you can actually switch off from it or i could....being off on a Tues, Wed and Thursday means i could take my son to school, go out for lunch with my wife, do some excercise! I didn't realise what i had until i had lost it. I think you have to make the best of what you have and make it work for you and your family.
Aviation like every industry has changed and for the worse! I think the thing with flying is that you have to pay and sacrifice so much to do it in the first place so people's expectations are much higher over a job where you do not have to pay £60-70k to do it!! For me i have already spent it so too late...
I am in very fortunate position where i will shortly be returning to flying and whilst it wont be perfect (what is??) i know now it will give me and my family more time together than the one that i am in now and maybe I'll appreciate it a little more. I know now that when i am moaning at 11.30pm on a Sat night on my way back from Faro that i can think of returning to a world of emails, stress and 5 x 13hr days anytime i like...No thanks.
Cheers
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Great post Dan, especially the Sunday night feeling.
Like nearly everything you only realise what you've lost, when it's gone.
The point about working in today's corporates has to be seen to be believed. It is horrific. That's before you come to "holidays", which comprises of conference calls, e-mails and checking mobile phone messages every other hour - each message you know will only be a problem.
I work in M&A, earn good money (but once the taxman has had his cut, it's not that good) and live like a pauper so that I can be out of it asap!
Like nearly everything you only realise what you've lost, when it's gone.
The point about working in today's corporates has to be seen to be believed. It is horrific. That's before you come to "holidays", which comprises of conference calls, e-mails and checking mobile phone messages every other hour - each message you know will only be a problem.
I work in M&A, earn good money (but once the taxman has had his cut, it's not that good) and live like a pauper so that I can be out of it asap!
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Nothing will stop the slide.
Flying for 12 years, 737 skipper for 4. My 15 y/old Son wants to be a pilot. I’m doing all I can to steer him down another path.
Yes the whole world has changed, but some industries change faster than others. I’m actively looking to do something else and if I get a sniff of another opportunity, I’ll be off, “like a rat out of an aqueduct!”
1980 = Fantastic career
1990 = Good
2000 = OK
2010 = Poor
2020 = ???
The problem is not so much the change, it’s the rate of change. Absolutely nothing will stop this slide.
I’m unhappy now, but terrified about what it will be like in the years to come.
Yes the whole world has changed, but some industries change faster than others. I’m actively looking to do something else and if I get a sniff of another opportunity, I’ll be off, “like a rat out of an aqueduct!”
1980 = Fantastic career
1990 = Good
2000 = OK
2010 = Poor
2020 = ???
The problem is not so much the change, it’s the rate of change. Absolutely nothing will stop this slide.
I’m unhappy now, but terrified about what it will be like in the years to come.
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SixPin
Quote from Life of Brian by any chance! lol use it all the time
Since this thread started I have been putting together a business plan to go back into my old field working for myself, money was the same as I am earning now but with greater potential if I put the work in, and the life style was far better! hopefully 12 months and ill be gone, just waiting to get the command and a month on the left seat and thats it for me.
Quote from Life of Brian by any chance! lol use it all the time
Since this thread started I have been putting together a business plan to go back into my old field working for myself, money was the same as I am earning now but with greater potential if I put the work in, and the life style was far better! hopefully 12 months and ill be gone, just waiting to get the command and a month on the left seat and thats it for me.
