EZY & RYR Pilots: Pay? You want to be paid?
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EZY & RYR Pilots: Pay? You want to be paid?
From this week's Flight Magazine:
"The question Ryanair does not answer is how much the "new kids" are paid to start, and whether they were guaranteed a minimum number of flying hours a month, given that a Ryanair pilot's pay is based on the amount of flying.
EasyJet has a similar programme, according to would-be pilots, but unlike Ryanair - and despite repeated requests - the airline offered Flight International no-one to discuss pilot recruitment directly."
See: Training: jobs for tomorrow
Meantime Flybe are going ahead with MPL cadet scheme. But at least they are investing in training folks.
"The question Ryanair does not answer is how much the "new kids" are paid to start, and whether they were guaranteed a minimum number of flying hours a month, given that a Ryanair pilot's pay is based on the amount of flying.
EasyJet has a similar programme, according to would-be pilots, but unlike Ryanair - and despite repeated requests - the airline offered Flight International no-one to discuss pilot recruitment directly."
See: Training: jobs for tomorrow
Meantime Flybe are going ahead with MPL cadet scheme. But at least they are investing in training folks.
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The question Ryanair does not answer is how much the "new kids" are paid to start
m have their fat greedy fingers burnt when the inevitable exodus occurs. I hear tales of new cadets eating both their's and the captain's breakfast before take-off because they have not eaten the night before. I hear tales of cadets taking our rancid crewfood home because they cannot afford to eat. I hear tales of cadets sleeping on any spare floor because they cannot pay rent. And SleazyJet's response? "They shouldn't report for work if they are not fit to fly". I wouldn't piss on our AMB if the lot of them were set on fire.
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Oh for goodness sake, somebody please change this broken record! RYR is this EZY is this! you know what they are, if they are not for you, stay away.
Drugs are bad for you, some people take them anyway, some are worse than others. RYR don't tell you all those things and they don't promise you a minimum number of hours because they don't have to, i know a lot of FO's in the airline who have 1 year or less experience, paid TR etc, earnings depend on where you are based and how many hours you have with them. Your line training IS paid too.
The long and short of it is with ryanair you can fly a lot of hours dependant on your base. and if you are at a slow base you can go away for a week to another base and fly more hours. It really isn't the monster you parrot it to be. There are no hugs and kisses at the airline. But you are there to fly aeroplanes, not get your arse wiped by management. You take home between £3000 to £6000 a month.
Drugs are bad for you, some people take them anyway, some are worse than others. RYR don't tell you all those things and they don't promise you a minimum number of hours because they don't have to, i know a lot of FO's in the airline who have 1 year or less experience, paid TR etc, earnings depend on where you are based and how many hours you have with them. Your line training IS paid too.
The long and short of it is with ryanair you can fly a lot of hours dependant on your base. and if you are at a slow base you can go away for a week to another base and fly more hours. It really isn't the monster you parrot it to be. There are no hugs and kisses at the airline. But you are there to fly aeroplanes, not get your arse wiped by management. You take home between £3000 to £6000 a month.
another Colgan Air?
If the pilots are not being paid enough to eat properly then they might not be able to afford somewhere to sleep near the airport either. I seem to remember low pay was a big factor in the Colgan Air accident. Penny wise pound foolish?
bb
bb
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ya except the copilot was commuting from the other coast and the capt from florida to new york..hard to imagine they couldn t afford a 30 dollars bed and breakfast for the night before the flight..if we want some credibility let s not push it too much the other way either..
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Blah blah blah blah.. and yeah... blah blah. Jeez... this is like the movie Ground Hog Day
The majority of these shave tails have come into the business after 9/11. And the majority of these new entrants along with their parents who sponsored many of them knew the terms and conditions of working for commuters and regionals alike. So what happened here!?!?!?!? was there a revelation all of a sudden!?!?!
Come one enough already... it's time to put down the violin. If one can't afford a night's rest in a hotel room or a breakfast at the Moto Stop on the Motorway or Burger King on I-95... get out of the business. Ain't no one going to pass the plate around for these folks.
Another alternative is to marry rich or find a long lost wealthy relative.
The majority of these shave tails have come into the business after 9/11. And the majority of these new entrants along with their parents who sponsored many of them knew the terms and conditions of working for commuters and regionals alike. So what happened here!?!?!?!? was there a revelation all of a sudden!?!?!
Come one enough already... it's time to put down the violin. If one can't afford a night's rest in a hotel room or a breakfast at the Moto Stop on the Motorway or Burger King on I-95... get out of the business. Ain't no one going to pass the plate around for these folks.
Another alternative is to marry rich or find a long lost wealthy relative.
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yes firegrass they were jumpseating, and so did I many times, but this doesn' t mean I can't afford a bed and breakfast for a night..having said that i agree they are payed far too little and all the rest.. all I am saying is we have to try and be real, otherwise we will really lose credibility (if we still have any) with the people outside the business
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Yeh and I 'm thinking of renting out my car for £20 for the night, cheaper than a b&b, 2 rooms front and back , sort of live telly for free, (dogging available if you drive about and find it)
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I have flown with people who have to supplement their income with another job - labouring, painter-decorator are the two most recent.
Makes me wonder what state the co-pilot is in when he or she reports for duty.
Makes me wonder what state the co-pilot is in when he or she reports for duty.
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eagerbeaver,
Perhaps you should ask them then? If they're tired, a call to crewcontrol for another FO is your LEGAL DUTY, not a maybe.....
Not criticising, just being honest. I have the same job as you on a different type for a similar company. I know what I'd do.
Perhaps you should ask them then? If they're tired, a call to crewcontrol for another FO is your LEGAL DUTY, not a maybe.....
Not criticising, just being honest. I have the same job as you on a different type for a similar company. I know what I'd do.
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Maybe I've missed something on the fundamental economics of this "problem" but I fail to see how anyone can struggle to eat on £3000-6000 per month. Even on a paltry £1000 a month somebody should be able to afford to rent a room local to where they are rostered, eat and arrive for work not having knocked themselves out by commuting 500 miles to work.
We all make concessions to build a career (move nearer to work etc) and I've always held if you can't do a job properly, don't do it at all.
We all make concessions to build a career (move nearer to work etc) and I've always held if you can't do a job properly, don't do it at all.
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Edgar,
I think you are missing the point - £1000 would not be so bad if that would be spendable income. However, these guys have a substanitial training loan and cannot afford the repayments. And believe me, and this is not because they are living a wild lifestyle!
I think you are missing the point - £1000 would not be so bad if that would be spendable income. However, these guys have a substanitial training loan and cannot afford the repayments. And believe me, and this is not because they are living a wild lifestyle!
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RYR
The average F/O flies 700 hours per year.
Some bases this month are seeing F/O's on the 100 hours in 28 days maximum.
Average earnings in a year after the first 500 hours £43600 after deductions by RYR for simulator.
Most pilots self employed and paying capital gains tax at 18% plus National Insurance.
Those on 100 hours, this month are averaging £6600 gross.
EZY cadet pilots are pay to fly, which to them is the only game in town.
They are not part of EZY so BALPA are not interested in them or their T&C's.
BALPA are weak and self centered when it comes to contract workers and the pay to fly brigade. Don't ever rely on them to help if it could cost real money.
I would not be surprised if in the near future other companies follow suit and take on pay to fly pilots, after all its the cost cutting that the accountants want.
Whilst I do not like the EZY / BMI pay to fly schemes which are no more than exploiters of a market down turn, I cannot support the CTC scheme where upon paying for and passing a jet orientation the cadets are / were placed with an airline at the rate of £1000 per month plus flight pay for 6 months. Then at least most were ultimately offered employment after the 6 months at reasonable rates of pay.
However I ask myself how much profit did CTC rake in for each cadet.
As for RYR at least there is a job after training, providing the cadet makes the grade, and dispite all the knocking and slagging off, there is good money to be made by the cadet from completion of line training, and they are paid during line flying.
Until there is a major pilot shortage, brush off those cheque books and credit cards as the accountants will find these sorts of schemes very attractive to balance the books or turn a profit.
Should we agree or not on the morality of such actions it has been discussed here to the death, but the pay to fly boys and girls will be with us for some months to come.
I do not wish to see a continuous line of trainees who after 6 months are replaced by more cadets and thrown on to the unemployment line with huge debts.
Safety is the next question, and to date there appears to be a high standard achieved by most cadets on these schemes, but as in all training schemes there are a few who have problems and others who do not make the grade.
The ability and desire to pay, does not guarantee that the cadet will achieve the required standards and pass the course, they take that financial risk upon themselves, and the accountants are happy to let them take the risk rather than the airline.
As long as trainers are prepared to maintain standards and "Chop" those who do not make the grade, there is the same risk of an accident / incident in pay to fly training as in regular operations.
Who pays and how is NOT the problem, neither is the fact that its happening, its a sign of the times and little can be done about it just as long as there are airlines prepared to offer such training and people with the money to pay for it.
The average F/O flies 700 hours per year.
Some bases this month are seeing F/O's on the 100 hours in 28 days maximum.
Average earnings in a year after the first 500 hours £43600 after deductions by RYR for simulator.
Most pilots self employed and paying capital gains tax at 18% plus National Insurance.
Those on 100 hours, this month are averaging £6600 gross.
EZY cadet pilots are pay to fly, which to them is the only game in town.
They are not part of EZY so BALPA are not interested in them or their T&C's.
BALPA are weak and self centered when it comes to contract workers and the pay to fly brigade. Don't ever rely on them to help if it could cost real money.
I would not be surprised if in the near future other companies follow suit and take on pay to fly pilots, after all its the cost cutting that the accountants want.
Whilst I do not like the EZY / BMI pay to fly schemes which are no more than exploiters of a market down turn, I cannot support the CTC scheme where upon paying for and passing a jet orientation the cadets are / were placed with an airline at the rate of £1000 per month plus flight pay for 6 months. Then at least most were ultimately offered employment after the 6 months at reasonable rates of pay.
However I ask myself how much profit did CTC rake in for each cadet.
As for RYR at least there is a job after training, providing the cadet makes the grade, and dispite all the knocking and slagging off, there is good money to be made by the cadet from completion of line training, and they are paid during line flying.
Until there is a major pilot shortage, brush off those cheque books and credit cards as the accountants will find these sorts of schemes very attractive to balance the books or turn a profit.
Should we agree or not on the morality of such actions it has been discussed here to the death, but the pay to fly boys and girls will be with us for some months to come.
I do not wish to see a continuous line of trainees who after 6 months are replaced by more cadets and thrown on to the unemployment line with huge debts.
Safety is the next question, and to date there appears to be a high standard achieved by most cadets on these schemes, but as in all training schemes there are a few who have problems and others who do not make the grade.
The ability and desire to pay, does not guarantee that the cadet will achieve the required standards and pass the course, they take that financial risk upon themselves, and the accountants are happy to let them take the risk rather than the airline.
As long as trainers are prepared to maintain standards and "Chop" those who do not make the grade, there is the same risk of an accident / incident in pay to fly training as in regular operations.
Who pays and how is NOT the problem, neither is the fact that its happening, its a sign of the times and little can be done about it just as long as there are airlines prepared to offer such training and people with the money to pay for it.
Day Dreamer it is obvious from your above post that you clearly have no idea what BALPA at Easyjet is doing.
Are you even an Easyjet pilot or a member of BALPA? I suspect the answer may be no to both? However, if you are go to the company forum, and get the facts.
Are you even an Easyjet pilot or a member of BALPA? I suspect the answer may be no to both? However, if you are go to the company forum, and get the facts.
