Pay me a minimum salary NOW !!!!

[flyprototype]

It's time for a minimum wage for airline pilots. | FLYING Magazine

give a look there.

[Firestorm]

I could support that. The general public has got used to the era of cheap flights, but have no idea of the consequences of them paying £15 for a flight from the uK to The Costa Crappa. The consequences being the squeezing of terms and conditions for the people flying the to the sun to the extent that the pilots are subsidising the whole operation. I wonder if BALPA will put a shoulder behind this wheel?

[Dreamshiner]

Low cost carriers are among the best payers in the industry (granted not the best benefits). Problems BALPA would be better looking at include letting UK airlines hire foreign pilots (contracts and summers exchanges) when there are so many nationals itching for a job.

Second, its now considered standard for us to fund our training, airlines get qualified (however inexperienced) pilots ready and willing to start a job. Back when they were involved in training/type rating and taking a burden of the cost they were more inclined to be more aware of the situation. I feel the distance now makes them oblivious.

How would a minimum wage work for turbo-prop opposed to jet pilots (would you distinguish?) The industry dictates at present that by in large jet pilots receive better renumeration. Jet TR's also tend to be more expensive. Longhaul pilots tend to be away from home and family for longer then short haul, do we introduce differences for them too?

Look, not kyboshing the idea, I think anything that looks to improve our conditions has merit. Would be good to see how this thread goes and solutions and alternatives that come from it.

[MidgetBoy]

Remember how third world countries suffer when we buy cheap things by giving up health care, working for low wages, etc.
Pilots are like third world country labor workers.

[Dreamshiner]

Erm, not really. Third world labour workers would do that to ensure their daily survival. In the first world we choose this job due to other factors.

Aviation is still seen (from the outside at least) as aspirational and as we live in affluent countries then the funds to pay to train to do this aspirational job are generally there. Problem is for us because there are so many who wish to pursue this career in a time of economic decline, the market is flooded. This will change. At present too many are willing to accept lower terms and conditions just to work in this industry.

Big is a big difference.

[Bealzebub]

Not necessary. It should be set at a minimum level of experience for "Airline pilots". That should be a full Airline Transport Pilots Licence (ATPL) and a minimum of 1500 hours.

On top of that you can add what ever "approved" courses, or additional requirements are deemed necessary.

The wages will then find their own level, as they have always done.

[Hahn]

"Low cost carriers are among the best payers in the industry (granted not the best benefits)."
You´re right if you look at the salary alone. Consider the ammount of work you need to fly 900 hours on short sectors and the fact that you will get no support whatsoever and the grass may not look that green. It is still better than street sweeping, but not a lot!

[Oktas8]

It should be set at a minimum level of experience for "Airline pilots". That should be a full Airline Transport Pilots Licence (ATPL) and a minimum of 1500 hours.

So there should be a glut of flight instructors (<1500hrs) instead?

Hmm.

[Qbix]

Problems BALPA would be better looking at include letting UK airlines hire foreign pilots (contracts and summers exchanges) when there are so many nationals itching for a job.

Very good idea. And let other countries do the same with UK guys.

[Bealzebub]

So there should be a glut of flight instructors (<1500hrs) instead?

So be it? It is not relevant to the question. Airline flying has been and should be the pinnacle of this particular career path. Whilst I accept that flight instruction is also a career choice for some, within the realms of general aviation it has always been an "aerial work" stepping stone, traditionally used as part of the path to an airline flying career for many people.

As such that particular "pyramid" would usually display a "glut" at that particular level. In summary, yes.

[Dreamshiner]

Very good idea. And let other countries do the same with UK guys.

They already do in non english speaking countries inadvertently by requiring a level of local language comprehension. However, that says as much about British attitudes to foreign languages as it does to foreign protectionism.

No need to discuss other countries when companies like TCX bringing in unlimited Canadians while stifling the hiring of indigenous pilots. BALPA needs to take a serious look at itself.

This thread is going the way of another one I started and I'm sure it could be continued there. In the meantime and back on topic I don't rule out a minimum wage, hard to administer and qualify. A quicker and better solution would be giving the union a map showing the location of "ar$e" and "elbow" for future reference and asking them to earn their subscription fees.