Rabbitwear

AIPA Insights


EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR’S VIEW – PHILIP VAN DEN HEEVER
The good news AIPA is pleased to announce that Fair Work Australia issued an order that will overcome the remaining legal resistance from the Company to more readily allow pilots to transfer between different entities of the Qantas group of airlines.

After some difficult negotiations and AIPA raising a dispute against the Company, on 22 January 2010 AIPA, Qantas and Jetstar appeared before Fair Work Australia’s Vice President Watson seeking an order relating to 'transferring employees in agreements' as per s.318 of the Fair Work Act 2009.

In non-legal speak, the effect of this order is that the alleged "impediments" that the Company has previously claimed to exist that supposedly block pilots from seamlessly transferring between airlines and instead forces them to resign and say, wait on the dole for 3 months before taking up a job in a new Qantas Group airline, has been removed.

The practical effect of this order is that if you decide to go and work for Jetstar, your terms and conditions as provided for by the Qantas Agreement won’t transfer across to your new job at Jetstar. Conversely, if you are a Jetstar pilot and you go and work for Qantas mainline, you can be sure that you will be paid in accordance with the Qantas Agreements, i.e. conditions of employment don't transfer when the pilot voluntarily does.

As you can appreciate, this issue was a difficult one for AIPA to grapple with. Clearly, we do not want to be making it any easier for the Company to push pilots out the door of mainline by offering them flying on lower terms and conditions in Jetstar, yet we are ever conscious of our overarching duty to our members: to improve your career. So to balance these competing interests, we built in two protections. The first is that in order for a pilot to transfer to a different entity and not transfer conditions, they must be given leave without pay from their original airline. Perhaps paradoxically, this has the effect of requiring pilots to have an option to return to their original airline as a condition of being able to seamlessly leave it. It also has the effect of elevating 'leave without pay' as an action of first resort for the Company to apply. Secondly, we insisted that the order expire in 12 months. This sunset clause insurance allows us to realistically assess the intentions of Qantas and not be forever bound by an order that isn’t what pilots want. Like you, we’ll be watching how Qantas and Jetstar choose to behave now that they no longer have an excuse for constraining the transfer of pilots between airlines that everyone knows are part of the same company.

The bad news
Having said the good news, it is with regret and disappointment that I have to announce that AIPA’s attempts to ensure the new vacancies announced by Jetstar recently were made available to Qantas pilots, especially those fearing redundancies, were unsuccessful. You may recall that in December 2009 Capt Wilson stated the following:

“I was notified on 18 December 2009 that Jetstar has promulgated a number of new command vacancies and will also be recruiting First Officers. Ordinarily, a number of these vacancies would have been open for application from Qantas pilots under the MOU. I am disappointed to report that this will not occur on this occasion because AIPA has not taken up an offer from Qantas and Jetstar to apply to Fair Work Australia to clear away the impediments that the new Fair Work Act has placed on the operation of the MOU. In the absence of such an order being obtained, Qantas pilots are not able to meet Jetstar’s selection criteria.”

At the time the Jetstar vacancies were open for expressions of interest, AIPA, Qantas and Jetstar were negotiating the application referred to above to clear away the alleged “impediments”. Qantas management was well aware that these “impediments” were likely to be removed long before any training was to commence with Jetstar. Despite this, Qantas refused to make those vacancies available to Qantas pilots for consideration.

Qantas’ refusal to allow Qantas pilots to apply for those vacancies was, to be frank, not only baseless, but spiteful. In a year when we are likely to see several attempts at reducing the numbers on mainline fleets, especially the B747-400 and B767 fleets, one would’ve thought it to be in the best interest of both the Group and its pilots to allow our younger members to apply for positions in a section of the Qantas Group expecting growth this year. It seems that whilst Capt Wilson and his team struggle to balance the books with budgets, routes, pilot surpluses, aircraft retirements, aircraft deliveries and pilot leave balances etc., Qantas’ out-of-date industrial strategists continue in their attempts to drive a wedge between the Qantas and Jetstar pilot groups.

Siloing the two pilot groups from an ‘industrial leverage’ point of view may be helpful, but I am more than convinced that any financial analyst worth his/her salt will have a different view when it comes to the prosperity of the Group and its two-brand strategy. One can only assume that management deem industrial leverage (and hence disharmony in the workforce) more important than valuing its product and employees. Add to this the rumours that Qantas intends to cut back on the number of first class seats on various fleets, a very bleak and uninspiring picture awaits Mr Joyce’s commitment to the loyal Qantas premium traveller. If Qantas fails to deliver a world-class service that is first class on all of its major sectors, it would find it extremely difficult to compete with other premium carriers such as Emirates, Etihad, Singapore and the like. As I have stated before in a previous edition of Altitude, the global financial crisis presented the Qantas Group with the ideal opportunity to pull together and work towards making the Group a world-beating product. Staff can, and should for it to be a success, play an integrated part in this goal if only management allows it to do so. Flight Ops management always complains to AIPA about our perceived “inflexibility” – what they fail to recognise and acknowledge is their own industrial strategist’s contribution to a perception which is stripped from reality.

Gingerbread

Persuading Fair Work Australia to issue an order that can overcome legal resistance to pilots transferring between different entities in the Qantas group of airlines is certainly a step in the right direction. Well done AIPA.

However, as the extract above also states: Qantas’ can still refuse group vacancies to group pilots and it would be a pleasant surprise if the industrial strategists did indeed heed the change.

Look At Me

Does this mean that Jetstar A320 and A330 jobs will go to Qantas pilots now and Jetstar B787 jobs will go to Qantas pilots in the future since they will have higher seniority than most Jetstar pilots.

Ramboflyer 1

Why the hell is this thread in Terms and not in australia . Qantas is trying to take over control of Qantas and all its subsidieries. they want the 787 all for them on their terms for as long as they want based on datal seniority , IE no merit. They are really scared of DECs coming type rated from the middle east into Jetstar and costing less to the company.
I bet the qf guys will not pay for their airbus or 787 rating like all the f/OS HAD TOO, now they want the JQ f/os to never upgrade.
Good luck idiots youll have to go overseas like all the Ansett experienced guys you only wanted as S/Os.

Rabbitwear

Dear moderator, Please put the original title and this thread back where it was , are you too ashamed for the public to see QF pilots are trying to hijack Jetstar.

Muff Hunter

put it in the bin where it belongs....

rabbit, again, get off the grass!

Ultergra

Ok, I will bite, and like always my reply's will be deleted.

But Mod's seriously, this need's some attention.

"I bet the qf guys will not pay for their airbus or 787 rating like all the f/OS HAD TOO, now they want the JQ f/os to never upgrade.

Had to? Or Had too?

That's why you are with Jetstar.

I mean really. Had to? I think more like... CHOSE TO!

Mstr Caution

subsidiary
adjective: serving to assist or supplement; auxiliary; supplementary. · noun: subordinate or secondary:

Why wouldn't Qantas want control of itself & it's own subsidiaries?

Furthermore

Your'e worried about QF guys/girls comming into Jetstar over the top of current J* F/O's.

What did you expect for the ex-Ansett joining Qantas, to not join as S/O's and come in over the top of existing QF crew.

So which one is it?

Toolongincruise

Rabbitweed,

Your statement is Disingenuous.

The MOU that involves the transfer between QF and JQ of flight crews was agreed to at the establishment of Jetstar.

The Qantas Group chose not to honor the agreement.

With the reduction in mainline flying, Qantas crews were threatened with redundancy whilst at the same time the Qantas group were hiring pilots in Jetstar.

The subsequent FWA ruling goes some way to ease the barriers so that some junior Qantas crew have the option should they wish, to join Jetstar on Jetstar conditions and pay.

Should a Jetstar pilot wish to transfer to Qantas he or she will join Qantas at the Qantas rate of pay.

That said I would be surprised if the numbers involved were massive however it gives options in either direction.

What we should be working toward is a combined pilot group that is united in gaining better pay and conditions for ALL in the group with the freedom to work in either area.

Do we allow Jetstar executives the opportunity to work for Qantas Rabbitweed? The current Qantas CEO Alan Joyce used to work for Jetstar. Should this not have been allowed? Perhaps we should have one rule for senior management and one for pilots.

Both Jetstar and Qantas are essential to the Group. I do not wish to turn this into a Jetstar vs Qantas argument. Do you Rabbitweed?

I'm finding it hard to fault more options for both groups of pilots whilst at the same time providing an opportunity to unite both pilot groups.

Do you oppose unity and solidarity between groups Rabbitweed?

This quote sums it up rather well;

"My friends, it is solidarity of labor we want. We do not want to find fault with each other, but to solidify our forces and say to each other: "We must be together; our masters are joined together and we must do the same thing."

Wise words!

Ramboflyer 1

Im all for solidarity, but its a totally unprofessional organisation, where there is no merit involved just a start date. So the JQ boys including captains will come across as S/Os if they choose , whereas F/Os in QF will come over as Captains. Hardly seems fair now does it.
How about the JQ guys get offered an F/O slot at least for every F/O that leaves QF for JQ. Should a person really be judged on start date. Joyce would never have got the top job at QF on seniority.

balance

Rambo, are you for real? If you are, then you are speaking through your @rse, and you bring great discredit to your Jetstar colleagues.

Your opinion. My opinion is that they ARE professional, and YOU aren't for posting such verbal diahrea.

Wrong! It is start date AND merit! If you dont meet the standard, you dont get the job. Again, speaking from your @rse!

Datal seniority in the COMPANY - thats the "QANTAS GROUP" which you guys wear so proudly on your aircraft, and MERIT. If you arent up to the job, you dont get it. Seems VERY fair to me, MATE!

Yes my friend, they should. I cant begin to imagine the discrimination, the nepotism etc that would occur if there was any other system?

I'm not convinced he got it on merit either, and if you think he did, then my friend you are frantically pulling yourself.

Rambo, take your idiotic, selfish, foolish ideas and shove them where the sun dont shine. I'll happily take YOUR job. I hope I get to check you in the sim one day...

Gas Bags

C'mon kiddies, We dont need another dispute do we?

The simple facts are that if you are not happy where you are working, or the conditions you are working under, then god gave each of you 2 feet, and they are there to be utilised.

GB

Mstr Caution

That's the deal per the MOU. Wasn't it agreed to by a majority vote of J* members at the time.