BA pension deficit £3.7bn....!
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Thin ice?
This ol' timer holds BA's cabin-crew in high regard... and respects that they may have grounds for grievance. But BA is now a pretty fragile outfit that needs every single pax. This is no time for a strike folks... the proposed amended/reduced terms seem to be a lot better than state benefits...IMHO.
No Pyrrhic victory ever paid the rent. Cheers bm
No Pyrrhic victory ever paid the rent. Cheers bm
Junior trash
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Gross mismanagement, and as usual the bill will be dropped on the real employees, not the thieving upper management, their parachutes are still lined with gold
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The BA deficit is not a story of recent times, it dates back way before any financial crisis. The management has used this issue in the past to make a significant change in the T&C’s of the flight crews. They have done nothing to rectify the situation. Management is now going to use the current dire state to stuff the latest downward spiral in T&C’s on everyone. And as the Anglo-Saxon management model requires, they will make sure their T&C’s won’t be affected.
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And as the Anglo-Saxon management model requires, they will make sure their T&C’s won’t be affected.
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pensions...staff travel
For those of you still in employ, the pension may seem like a long way away, but it creeps round closer than you think. This is a more important issue for all of us than the short term issue of how many cc are on board.
In case you had not notice, earlier this year the whole ball game on staff travel for retirees was changed to the detriment of those with shorter service and expectations of longer life.
Previously retirees enjoyed lifetime staff travel. Now it is limited to the equivalent period as your length of service. The big issue is that this was done retroactively and applies to all. So those who chose early retirement in recent years on the promise of a lifetime benefit as part of the sweetner package, have now been dumped on.
You may also have noticed that the poor guys at JAL are fighting to stop their pensions being cut by 40% due to the fund deficit. This applies to existing as well as future pensioners.
Who knows where this will end?
Happy times.
In case you had not notice, earlier this year the whole ball game on staff travel for retirees was changed to the detriment of those with shorter service and expectations of longer life.
Previously retirees enjoyed lifetime staff travel. Now it is limited to the equivalent period as your length of service. The big issue is that this was done retroactively and applies to all. So those who chose early retirement in recent years on the promise of a lifetime benefit as part of the sweetner package, have now been dumped on.
You may also have noticed that the poor guys at JAL are fighting to stop their pensions being cut by 40% due to the fund deficit. This applies to existing as well as future pensioners.
Who knows where this will end?
Happy times.
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- BA took several years pension holiday, depriving the scheme of funds when the Sun shone.
- BA has continually sought to split the schemes APS, APS1, NAPS, BARP to split liabilities and isolate groups to fight one against the other.
- Other schemes, notably Boots switched from equities to bonds early in the market crisis, neatly sidestepping the worst of the damage. Pity we never had inspired guidance like that.
- And one last one that knocks all the others inot a cocked hat:
Gordon Brown and his cronies began plundering the pension wealth of every scheme in the UK as soon as they came to office. Persecuting the wise and the careful to give without measure to the feckless and irresponsible, firehosing the public sector with billions of pounds.
When all the family silver was gone, he mortgaged and borrowed his way to bankruptcy, and sold every treasure we had. Even the Bolsheviks were never so reckless.
Wasted, every
penny. There are no words to describe the iniquity of them. We will never recover.
- BA has continually sought to split the schemes APS, APS1, NAPS, BARP to split liabilities and isolate groups to fight one against the other.
- Other schemes, notably Boots switched from equities to bonds early in the market crisis, neatly sidestepping the worst of the damage. Pity we never had inspired guidance like that.
- And one last one that knocks all the others inot a cocked hat:
Gordon Brown and his cronies began plundering the pension wealth of every scheme in the UK as soon as they came to office. Persecuting the wise and the careful to give without measure to the feckless and irresponsible, firehosing the public sector with billions of pounds.
When all the family silver was gone, he mortgaged and borrowed his way to bankruptcy, and sold every treasure we had. Even the Bolsheviks were never so reckless.
Wasted, every
penny. There are no words to describe the iniquity of them. We will never recover.
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BA has never taken a payment holiday from NAPS, and at least one of the payment holidays from APS was a legal requirement as the fund was in surplus and continued payments were not permissible. The blame for this falls mostly at the door of one Mr G Brown.
"Payment holidays" are a red herring
In the context of a pension fund such as BA's various schemes, so-called "payment holidays" are a red herring. The various Co.s that have taken payment holidays may have saved them selves a few million.
That is LESS than the rounding errors that the actuary uses to cost the liabilities.
Payment holidays for BA were few and far between, and as CM points out, at least one of them was due to Mr G Brown's laws.
That is LESS than the rounding errors that the actuary uses to cost the liabilities.
Payment holidays for BA were few and far between, and as CM points out, at least one of them was due to Mr G Brown's laws.
Never forget that, ten years ago, BA tried to raid APS to make up the deficiency in NAPS. At a huge meeting in Waterworld we had to threaten 'direct action' in order to have OUR say on the platform.
I 'helped out' in the eighties by paying the BA contribution for four years - just before BA took a contribution holiday.
Willie, don't even THINK of asking the pensioners for help!
I 'helped out' in the eighties by paying the BA contribution for four years - just before BA took a contribution holiday.
Willie, don't even THINK of asking the pensioners for help!
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Unions allowed pensions to be watered down in 2007, part of the deal was flying staff got a nice increase in their pensions, all ground staff accepted a very bad deal.
Now with so many different staff on different pension deals can only mean close all the old ones and try to maintain at least one pension deal.
Company 1, Unions 0.
Will have to be fixed by Apr 2011 at the latest, more like Jun 2010 will be the date.
Good luck to all the staff in the near future.
Now with so many different staff on different pension deals can only mean close all the old ones and try to maintain at least one pension deal.
Company 1, Unions 0.
Will have to be fixed by Apr 2011 at the latest, more like Jun 2010 will be the date.
Good luck to all the staff in the near future.
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Airbus unplugged needs to check his facts. The tax credits on pension funds were almost completely abolished by Norman Lamont in the last Conservative Government. It's only the Daily Mail and similar that tries to lay the blame on Gordon Brown for political reasons.
For an independent non political explanation of how the deficits come about I can recommend www.opalliance.org.uk/decline.htm
Best if we keep politics out of the forum surely ?
For an independent non political explanation of how the deficits come about I can recommend www.opalliance.org.uk/decline.htm
Best if we keep politics out of the forum surely ?
Controversial, moi?
Willie, don't even THINK of asking the pensioners for help!
Airbus Unplugged
Investment strategies are determined by the fund's profile and is not a wholly free choice of fund managers but well done for a hat trick of false assertions.
Pension contribution holidays were a legal requirement when BA last took one, and that was for APS not NAPS. It was illegal to continue paying in to a fully funded scheme.
Gordon Brown removed Advance Corporation Tax Relief in 1997, that has been costing pansion funds around £5bn p.a. since.
BA cannot afford to put more into the pension funds than it is already doing. The last ten year plan saw BA's already massive contributions upped by £170m p.a. I am sure it has not escaped attention but BA is losing money hand over fist at the moment.
joetom
You keep repeating
...... in 2007, part of the deal was flying staff got a nice increase in their pensions...
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Take a deep look at these numbers guys. In 3yrs NAPS went from a £2.1B to a £2,7B deficit whilst APS went from £22M to £1BM deficit. So why should APS which is largely 95% closed have a much larger deficit????
Either BA is being very economical with the truth re the NAPS deficit, or maybe some cross fertilisation is taking place between the funds.
One other oddity is that the trustees expect NAPS to grow at 2.5% whist APS is only growing at .5%. Also the chairman of the trustees is resigning Roger Maynard, why? I am very unhappy with this report and feel others should start asking serious questions.
Either BA is being very economical with the truth re the NAPS deficit, or maybe some cross fertilisation is taking place between the funds.
One other oddity is that the trustees expect NAPS to grow at 2.5% whist APS is only growing at .5%. Also the chairman of the trustees is resigning Roger Maynard, why? I am very unhappy with this report and feel others should start asking serious questions.
Controversial, moi?
The Actuarial Valuation is carried out by independent actuaries. I assume that the relative fund growths are dependent on the investment profile of the respective funds. That investment profile is also determined by legal constraints which vary with the makeup of the scheme members.
Roger Maynard is resigning because of his position with the pending Iberia merger. The BA pilot's elected trustee is very sorry to seem him go and feels his skill, knowledge and expertise will be difficult to replace. He also feels he could have remained. It is a mark of the man's integrity (now there is a quality we rarely see these days) that he is resigning at this point.
Roger Maynard is resigning because of his position with the pending Iberia merger. The BA pilot's elected trustee is very sorry to seem him go and feels his skill, knowledge and expertise will be difficult to replace. He also feels he could have remained. It is a mark of the man's integrity (now there is a quality we rarely see these days) that he is resigning at this point.