Ryanair, Brookfield and Tax
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: San Fran, Ca. USA
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Brookfield list several accountancy firms but advise new guys to do their homework before selecting one. Has anyone here any advice on which one or ones do the best job.
I am just about to start the process of selecting one and any advice would be good.
Thanks and happy landings,
I am just about to start the process of selecting one and any advice would be good.
Thanks and happy landings,
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London
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Hasdrubal,
I cannot, obviously, comment on the situation between other carriers and the Irish tax office, all I can tell you is what this years BRK mob are doing with the current crop of accountants.
If I were to pursue this to better understanding, I would be asking about Shamrock and Air A employment terms and structure. Are the pilots employed as contractors like us? Maybe the devil in the detail on this one?
Wally.
I cannot, obviously, comment on the situation between other carriers and the Irish tax office, all I can tell you is what this years BRK mob are doing with the current crop of accountants.
If I were to pursue this to better understanding, I would be asking about Shamrock and Air A employment terms and structure. Are the pilots employed as contractors like us? Maybe the devil in the detail on this one?
Wally.
Join Date: May 2009
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Leo, Leo, Leo,
The BRK solution is not a pan european solution. Its an Irish solution. If a dutch pilot pays 3% over to McNammara or one of the other accountants they will look after his Irish tax return only.
He still has to prepare and file a return in Holland which McNamara will conveniently point out that they are not in a position to do.
So the pilot will have to fork out more cash to someone in his home country to file a return.
BRK's motivation is not to look after the contractors. It started out as a reaction to getting their balls busted by the tax office and then they spotted a opportunity to raise even more money out of their pilots by charging them to do a tax return for them.
Think about it. If there are 900 FR contractors going through BRK, lets give them an average salary of €80k per annum. Even if BRK are only getting half of the 3% back from the accountants then it is worth €1.08million a year. That's an extra million euro in income from the pilots.
What a touch. You got to take your hat off to them. With the rest of the industry in the toilet and his paymasters facing tough times DD at BRK manages to screw the pilots by lowering their rates, then he screws them for at least another €1,200 by making them use a accountant buddy of his to sort out their taxes which takes him out of a hole with the taxman.
Take a bow Mr Dooney
The BRK solution is not a pan european solution. Its an Irish solution. If a dutch pilot pays 3% over to McNammara or one of the other accountants they will look after his Irish tax return only.
He still has to prepare and file a return in Holland which McNamara will conveniently point out that they are not in a position to do.
So the pilot will have to fork out more cash to someone in his home country to file a return.
BRK's motivation is not to look after the contractors. It started out as a reaction to getting their balls busted by the tax office and then they spotted a opportunity to raise even more money out of their pilots by charging them to do a tax return for them.
Think about it. If there are 900 FR contractors going through BRK, lets give them an average salary of €80k per annum. Even if BRK are only getting half of the 3% back from the accountants then it is worth €1.08million a year. That's an extra million euro in income from the pilots.
What a touch. You got to take your hat off to them. With the rest of the industry in the toilet and his paymasters facing tough times DD at BRK manages to screw the pilots by lowering their rates, then he screws them for at least another €1,200 by making them use a accountant buddy of his to sort out their taxes which takes him out of a hole with the taxman.
Take a bow Mr Dooney
Join Date: Jun 1999
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It might be interesting to note that a director of a company has certain duties and responsibilities defined by the Companies Act. I can't talk about the other three but CXC will not even tell you who the other directors of your company are.
Take care, this could cost you more than it will ever save on tax.
Take care, this could cost you more than it will ever save on tax.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: europe
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Does anyone know the reason behind setting up this "three man" Ltd. company?, would have thought you could set up your own Ltd. company with much less headache trying to get to know all the "in and outs" regarding the liabilities you have towards the other people there all of a sudden.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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You might want to talk to your accountant again..As a self employed person you can deduct the cost of all training and other legit expenses from your gross profit...then you pay tax on that figure...
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I don't realy get this. Say that you're based in Spain for example.
You have to pay tax on Ireland, and then in Spain to? If you do deductions in your company in Ireland, for example the rating, a headset and so on, will this deduction follow you to spain or will you have to pay more tax in spain instead?
How do you contractors out in europe do, where do you pay taxes and what does the percentage end up in with all the deductions you are allowed to do?
You have to pay tax on Ireland, and then in Spain to? If you do deductions in your company in Ireland, for example the rating, a headset and so on, will this deduction follow you to spain or will you have to pay more tax in spain instead?
How do you contractors out in europe do, where do you pay taxes and what does the percentage end up in with all the deductions you are allowed to do?
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Unfortunately for the new guys these new contracts are severely restricting their financial freedom. Fortunately for me I was able to sign a copy of the "old" BRK contracts, which still had the provision that the pilot is either self-employed or works through a limited company. The reason why the self-employed option was taken out of the contracts is because BRK can not make money there, nor can the Irish Tax Regulator. I know a few guys who have their BRK salary as a whole deposited into their bank account. Before, we're talking 2 years ago now, the only requirement for BRK was a letter of your accountant confirming you are indeed self-employed. Needless to say a lot of these letters have been forged.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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See that Ryanair is being forced to close its base in Marseille as the French government are persuing them for social costs and taxes for the pilots
MARSEILLE, France (AFP) - Low-cost airline Ryanair (Dublin: RY4.IR - news) said Wednesday it will close its base in Marseille because French prosecutors refused to drop a case against it for hiring workers on Irish contracts.
it will happen in other countries soon,,,,, still O` Leary will have taken his massive bonus and will probably be sipping a cocktail in the Caribbean by then, leave it to the pilots to sort out their affairs with the EU govts
Sad
MARSEILLE, France (AFP) - Low-cost airline Ryanair (Dublin: RY4.IR - news) said Wednesday it will close its base in Marseille because French prosecutors refused to drop a case against it for hiring workers on Irish contracts.
it will happen in other countries soon,,,,, still O` Leary will have taken his massive bonus and will probably be sipping a cocktail in the Caribbean by then, leave it to the pilots to sort out their affairs with the EU govts
Sad
Join Date: Jan 2006
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ZAV says
I would think that these lads sort the expert advice of both legal and financial counsel to avoid any potential pit falls. If not... oh well... such as life. Can't blame BKR... and can't blame FR for decisions that employees, and contractors alike make.
leave it to the pilots to sort out their affairs with the EU govts.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I think it is probably generally accepted that the European "tax-net" is tightening & that the "good old days" are at an end for most people. And of course following the EasyJet debacle this was always going to be the next target, why else do you think FR never opened a BVA base, just TOO visible on AF's doorstep.
In the beginning most contractors made a conscious choice to go down this route for "tax optimisation"
regretably it degenerated into a situation whereby FR benefitted (& the employee lost out) by making no social contributions & it rapidly became the only show in the FR town with no permanent contracts on offer.
The arguments by various "legacy carriers" that FR enjoyed an unfair advantage by "social dumping" is entirely valid, and one that the pilot were happy to go along with as long as it was of benefit to them in the short term.
Like everything else in the FR"I'm all right jack fcuk the rest of you" business /employment model, this has come back to bite those who profited by it.
For now the pilots are paying the price & it will be the turn of FR one day too, as more Govt's catch on to the untapped revenue source existing in their backyard. Of course FR will expect the employee to bear the brunt of the additional contribution burden, or will try moving to more "cooperative" tax regimes, but, Europe is only so big, and you "can run but you can't hide" will eventually come to pass.
Still, "good while it lasted" has to be the "glass-half-full" motto for both contractors & Ryanair alike I guess.
In the beginning most contractors made a conscious choice to go down this route for "tax optimisation"
regretably it degenerated into a situation whereby FR benefitted (& the employee lost out) by making no social contributions & it rapidly became the only show in the FR town with no permanent contracts on offer.The arguments by various "legacy carriers" that FR enjoyed an unfair advantage by "social dumping" is entirely valid, and one that the pilot were happy to go along with as long as it was of benefit to them in the short term.
Like everything else in the FR"I'm all right jack fcuk the rest of you" business /employment model, this has come back to bite those who profited by it.
For now the pilots are paying the price & it will be the turn of FR one day too, as more Govt's catch on to the untapped revenue source existing in their backyard. Of course FR will expect the employee to bear the brunt of the additional contribution burden, or will try moving to more "cooperative" tax regimes, but, Europe is only so big, and you "can run but you can't hide" will eventually come to pass.
Still, "good while it lasted" has to be the "glass-half-full" motto for both contractors & Ryanair alike I guess.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Where the company needs me not where I want to be!
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I have an old BRK contract,
Good and bad points and they have been made many times
I love the fact I am in control of it, I sit down with my accountant once a year, same guy I have been with for 10 years now as self employed and I give him my earnings, my expenses, we fill in the standard self employed UK tax form sent it off and wait for the bill, its great.
Bad points are days off sick and swaps for attending things are like ripping money right out my pocket, 2 days off for a wedding is €600-€1200 out my earnings plus the money for the event, no retirement fund building up, and no job security, o yea and everyone on here thinks I (BRK guys) are the Devils spawn and we deserve to go straight to Hell!
On the whole though I am more than happy with my contract, but I don't plan 30 years in Flying, I hope to be done in 2-3 year on the line and maybe pull a part time flying gig on a king air or something, 10-15 hours a month would suit, the thought of 900 a year watching the DME tick down scares me more than the Inland revenue, New BRK contracts & Spanish ATC all put together!
Happy Flying guys
Good and bad points and they have been made many times
I love the fact I am in control of it, I sit down with my accountant once a year, same guy I have been with for 10 years now as self employed and I give him my earnings, my expenses, we fill in the standard self employed UK tax form sent it off and wait for the bill, its great.
Bad points are days off sick and swaps for attending things are like ripping money right out my pocket, 2 days off for a wedding is €600-€1200 out my earnings plus the money for the event, no retirement fund building up, and no job security, o yea and everyone on here thinks I (BRK guys) are the Devils spawn and we deserve to go straight to Hell!
On the whole though I am more than happy with my contract, but I don't plan 30 years in Flying, I hope to be done in 2-3 year on the line and maybe pull a part time flying gig on a king air or something, 10-15 hours a month would suit, the thought of 900 a year watching the DME tick down scares me more than the Inland revenue, New BRK contracts & Spanish ATC all put together!
Happy Flying guys
