When will Ryanair pilots learn!!!!???
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Anyone who thinks pre-flight rest(*) can be taken in a car should have their licence revoked.
If suitable accommodation can't be found, a call to Crewing should follow, informing them you are unfit for duty.
This is how I'd expect a professional pilot to act and what the paying public have a right to expect.
[* - not talking about 5 minutes with eyes shut when you beat the traffic.]
If suitable accommodation can't be found, a call to Crewing should follow, informing them you are unfit for duty.
This is how I'd expect a professional pilot to act and what the paying public have a right to expect.
[* - not talking about 5 minutes with eyes shut when you beat the traffic.]
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If our pilots want hotel accomodation either prior to or after an out-of-base duty they know they only have to call us and we'll arrange it, no questions asked.
If an out-of-base duty has an 04:00 report then I wouldn't dream of sending them down immediately before the duty. By default I'd position them the previous day (By car, and a nice one, not a Minicab!) and they'd go into the hotel (A decent one) for their rest.
In cases where they're called out from Standby to an out-of-base duty I'll often have a car collect them from home if it helps the smooth running of the operation.
Reading this thread as a crewing bod from a charter airline I'm genuinely shocked at what RYR pilots put up with. Our cabin crews get better treatment than RYR pilots by the sounds of things.
If an out-of-base duty has an 04:00 report then I wouldn't dream of sending them down immediately before the duty. By default I'd position them the previous day (By car, and a nice one, not a Minicab!) and they'd go into the hotel (A decent one) for their rest.
In cases where they're called out from Standby to an out-of-base duty I'll often have a car collect them from home if it helps the smooth running of the operation.
Reading this thread as a crewing bod from a charter airline I'm genuinely shocked at what RYR pilots put up with. Our cabin crews get better treatment than RYR pilots by the sounds of things.
Quite agree Barden! but then who would do the revoking...the CAA...dream on.....regulatory authority.....more like head buried firmly in sand. They will only act when the politicians get involved after the smoking heap..... just like the FSA and all the other regulatory authorities who are supposed to oversee what goes on. It is pathetic
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Brookfield pilots on standby
Well,
I am not to sure how many Brookfield pilots are reading this thread, but to me it is making excellent reading!
Just thought I would let a few of you know that Ryanair have got a nice new trick!
They have over the last couple of months been calling FOs off standby and telling them they have to operate in the SIM as someone is doing an LPC/OPC and the other pilot is unable to attend.
This means that the standby BRK FO is going into the sim centre and doing at least 4-5 hours in the sim, and then NOT GETTING PAID!! Not a single penny. Brookfield are saying 'this shouldn't be happening' as you are only paid for Scheduled Block Hours whilst in the aircraft, and Ryanair are laughing their heads off because they have had someone in the sim for free!!
It seems to be happening only to FOs because obviously the captains are able to operate on Line Flights from either seat, (which makes sense).
Summery: 5 hours at work, flying in the sim which DOES NOT COUNT TO YOUR OWN LPC/OPC, and then not getting paid. Ryanair wins wins wins!
Maybe everyone here who knows a BRK pilots should inform them that this is going on, so each person can make up their own mind as to whether they will reject this duty if called by Crewing, because they WILL NOT GET PAID! (Just a suggestion).
I am not to sure how many Brookfield pilots are reading this thread, but to me it is making excellent reading!
Just thought I would let a few of you know that Ryanair have got a nice new trick!
They have over the last couple of months been calling FOs off standby and telling them they have to operate in the SIM as someone is doing an LPC/OPC and the other pilot is unable to attend.
This means that the standby BRK FO is going into the sim centre and doing at least 4-5 hours in the sim, and then NOT GETTING PAID!! Not a single penny. Brookfield are saying 'this shouldn't be happening' as you are only paid for Scheduled Block Hours whilst in the aircraft, and Ryanair are laughing their heads off because they have had someone in the sim for free!!
It seems to be happening only to FOs because obviously the captains are able to operate on Line Flights from either seat, (which makes sense).
Summery: 5 hours at work, flying in the sim which DOES NOT COUNT TO YOUR OWN LPC/OPC, and then not getting paid. Ryanair wins wins wins!
Maybe everyone here who knows a BRK pilots should inform them that this is going on, so each person can make up their own mind as to whether they will reject this duty if called by Crewing, because they WILL NOT GET PAID! (Just a suggestion).
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You are kidding, right? We can't call people off SB for Sim duties full stop, but even if we could we damn sure wouldn't expect them to do it for nothing!I fervently hope that RYR's practices don't spread to the rest of the industry. I wonder if they have a sign outside their head office that reads "Now wash your hands".
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The sim duty is true unfortunetly
I have been called off standby twice to do a sim spare body duty, I thought I was getting paid for it and I didnt, the 2nd time I was called I asked crewing why I was not getting paid and they gave some bull**** answer and hung up before I had chance to reply.
spoken to BRK about it and was told the would call back with an answer and they didnt, called again and was told they would call back and they didnt!
next time I get called I will be asking for paying for it or I wont be going.
I have been called off standby twice to do a sim spare body duty, I thought I was getting paid for it and I didnt, the 2nd time I was called I asked crewing why I was not getting paid and they gave some bull**** answer and hung up before I had chance to reply.
spoken to BRK about it and was told the would call back with an answer and they didnt, called again and was told they would call back and they didnt!
next time I get called I will be asking for paying for it or I wont be going.
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Drip-feed the answer ?
@asdf1234
I cannot see how I misread your post.
You are saying ( or if you aren't, why did you write about it ) that FR pilots might allow themselves to get into such a state of dehydration and hunger ( famine ? ) as to potentially endanger the aircraft.
To me you seem to be sugesting that these ( hypothetical ) pilots are so tight or so moronic, that they would be unable/unwilling to feed and water themselves during the normal working day ?
Obviously in this ( I hope, ludicrously overblown )scenario the issue of who is paying for it is irrelevant.
I cannot see how I misread your post.
You are saying ( or if you aren't, why did you write about it ) that FR pilots might allow themselves to get into such a state of dehydration and hunger ( famine ? ) as to potentially endanger the aircraft.
To me you seem to be sugesting that these ( hypothetical ) pilots are so tight or so moronic, that they would be unable/unwilling to feed and water themselves during the normal working day ?
Obviously in this ( I hope, ludicrously overblown )scenario the issue of who is paying for it is irrelevant.
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Regarding pilots sleeping in cars. I took a cup of our free coffee to a Ryan sleeper. Nice guy trying to pay off debt as quickly as possible, can't fault him really. I guess it's all about cultural norms. Jo public would assume that at least we stay in a travel logde or similar. My colleagues would think it outrageous if we were not provided with accom.
Cultural norms take only a few years to establish and longer to dis establish. So what cutural norms are going to be established through this recession? Would BALPA allow sleeping in cars to happen? Not in my opinion. Collectively a bunch of switched on guys who work with senior managers and directors, they would mutually agree accomodation for pilots is cast in stone and expected by the travelling public.
Don't really understand this anti Balpa sentiment, unless your a manager. Even so retiring on 2/3 final salary for 600 hrs per year probably beats the financial reward given to non union airline managers. 100% membership = a strong collective bargaining position. How many doctors belong to the BMA and how many lawyers are members of the law society? Balpa aren't 70's shop stewards but hard working campaigners at many levels who do get visibilty and respect from many inside and outside the industry.
Why am I posting? Because I have enjoyed a fulfilling career and the trappings of a proffesion. To see guys sleeping in cars is outrageous even more so for it to be denied. To see newcomers doing 900 hrs per year with no pension or real way out fills me with dread. 600 hrs over 30 odd years has its moments of tiredness but 900 and having to juggle acomm. Just hope people like me are never called to testify in court when trying to paint the picture of modern aviation (not singleing any operator out here).
Don't keep "paying mill owner for permission to come to work".
Cultural norms take only a few years to establish and longer to dis establish. So what cutural norms are going to be established through this recession? Would BALPA allow sleeping in cars to happen? Not in my opinion. Collectively a bunch of switched on guys who work with senior managers and directors, they would mutually agree accomodation for pilots is cast in stone and expected by the travelling public.
Don't really understand this anti Balpa sentiment, unless your a manager. Even so retiring on 2/3 final salary for 600 hrs per year probably beats the financial reward given to non union airline managers. 100% membership = a strong collective bargaining position. How many doctors belong to the BMA and how many lawyers are members of the law society? Balpa aren't 70's shop stewards but hard working campaigners at many levels who do get visibilty and respect from many inside and outside the industry.
Why am I posting? Because I have enjoyed a fulfilling career and the trappings of a proffesion. To see guys sleeping in cars is outrageous even more so for it to be denied. To see newcomers doing 900 hrs per year with no pension or real way out fills me with dread. 600 hrs over 30 odd years has its moments of tiredness but 900 and having to juggle acomm. Just hope people like me are never called to testify in court when trying to paint the picture of modern aviation (not singleing any operator out here).
Don't keep "paying mill owner for permission to come to work".
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To digress for a while, let's not forget the food hygiene issues with bringing in your own food.
In the case of a long day day, sandwiches and the like may have been purchased or prepared at home 12+ hours previously and not stored in a temperature controlled environment.
With company supplied crew food, the supply chain can be properly managed and if a problem is identified, be corrected.
Recently our company identified an issue with sandwiches and salads, pulling the salads (hopefully temporarily) and altering some of the sandwich fillings. It's now recommended we eat the sandwiches on outbound sectors. Of course crew food allocation contains hots, which are heated thoroughly before being consumed. The crew food isn't the last word in taste and nutrition, but at least it's safe!
If anyone things on board food hygiene is a trivial matter, in the not too distant past one of our pilots almost died from eating a contaminated sandwich. Food poisoning is the number one reason for flight crew incapacitation, and from personal experience it can strike very quickly, without warning and leaves one helpless and unable to continue operating safely.
All of this nicety completely passes Ryanair by. Hungry pilots aren't conducive to flight safety, but having them consume potentially unsafe food is even worse.
In the case of a long day day, sandwiches and the like may have been purchased or prepared at home 12+ hours previously and not stored in a temperature controlled environment.
With company supplied crew food, the supply chain can be properly managed and if a problem is identified, be corrected.
Recently our company identified an issue with sandwiches and salads, pulling the salads (hopefully temporarily) and altering some of the sandwich fillings. It's now recommended we eat the sandwiches on outbound sectors. Of course crew food allocation contains hots, which are heated thoroughly before being consumed. The crew food isn't the last word in taste and nutrition, but at least it's safe!
If anyone things on board food hygiene is a trivial matter, in the not too distant past one of our pilots almost died from eating a contaminated sandwich. Food poisoning is the number one reason for flight crew incapacitation, and from personal experience it can strike very quickly, without warning and leaves one helpless and unable to continue operating safely.
All of this nicety completely passes Ryanair by. Hungry pilots aren't conducive to flight safety, but having them consume potentially unsafe food is even worse.
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safe food?
personally, i have had food supplied by the airlines and now food supplied by myself.
and i must say i have complete confidence in the food i supply.
it is not rocket science. if you are careless and thoughtless about your own food, where is the assurance that others on minimum wage will always be better in the foods they prepare for the airlines.
even Sully who landed in the river worked for an airline in which crews had to bring their own food. and all the managers must have heard or read that and soon it will be industry wide.
i prefer having the control of what i eat. sorry we don't agree.
and i must say i have complete confidence in the food i supply.
it is not rocket science. if you are careless and thoughtless about your own food, where is the assurance that others on minimum wage will always be better in the foods they prepare for the airlines.
even Sully who landed in the river worked for an airline in which crews had to bring their own food. and all the managers must have heard or read that and soon it will be industry wide.
i prefer having the control of what i eat. sorry we don't agree.
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Bring back the kids!!
For the sake of us all on standby bring back more posts from The Real Dim Shady and Flinters!!
I've already eaten my (free) full english in the hotel and ironed my (free) uniform, now what?....I demand more entertainment!
What a great 'debate'! I can only assume that Dim Shady is one of the 'car sleepers' and clearly so exhausted when he comes on-line that he spouts such rot in his delirious stupors!!
I've already eaten my (free) full english in the hotel and ironed my (free) uniform, now what?....I demand more entertainment!What a great 'debate'! I can only assume that Dim Shady is one of the 'car sleepers' and clearly so exhausted when he comes on-line that he spouts such rot in his delirious stupors!!
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Not been a visitor here for a while, but no surprise to see The Real Slim Shady, the company lickspittle, once again spouting his tiresome rhetoric and RYR propoganda ......
Surprised to see that Mrs RSS, (aka Abusing_the_Sky ) hasn't jumped in and leapt to his defence, as was the case the last time those nasty pilots were being unkind to him.
Still age gap relationships, never seem to last long do they ? ........
Surprised to see that Mrs RSS, (aka Abusing_the_Sky ) hasn't jumped in and leapt to his defence, as was the case the last time those nasty pilots were being unkind to him.
Still age gap relationships, never seem to last long do they ? ........
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Whistleblower's Broken Horn.
Still age gap relationships, never seem to last long do they? ........
Poor old Whistleblower, the failed pilot of County Wicklow whose capacity for hot air varies inversely with stature, starts a thread in bad faith, designed expressly to put a bit of muck about, and almost immediately it descends with the velocity of an enthusiastically greased crowbar into a bit of anti-Ryanair biffo-slappo. Well done, lads, well done indeed, but there’s that pesky little thing called truth that oft gets in the way and I’m just the Camel to remind you of it. When measured against the facts of life, rather than the fantasy world you clearly belong to, you’re left sounding like so many disgruntled chickens in a rained-upon henhouse from hell.
The first thing that needs saying is to address those sad, deluded misanthropes who try to advance the argument, apparently with a straight face, that pilots who choose to advance their careers by purchasing a Type Rating are single handedly responsible for an industry-wide reduction in terms and conditions and, worse still, are somehow lesser pilots for the process.
Nothing could be further from the truth. TRTO’s like Ryanair and many others, offer type-rating training and do so as a business. There is no compunction to purchase, and even lesser compunction to provide employment thereafter, but Ryanair does offer employment and in colossal quantities too, a fact you’re clearly keen to overlook.
How dare you have the effrontery to suggest that it remains the purview of only the lucky few who obtain sponsored type ratings with loss-making legacy carriers? The arrogance is utterly breathtaking. An extension of that fatuous logic would return the business of flying to the bad old days when only the wealthy could afford to fly, and when flag carriers were protected from the cold commercial world by deep-pocketed governments with barely a care for the bottom line.
Profits were meaningless and airlines were run as “social projects”. Well, I’m afraid it’s a different world now, gentlemen, whether you like it or not. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle and the bitch likes what she sees. It's called the free market and Ryanair is it's Gorilla-in-chief.
Secondly, you miss the most significant point in the stories of those young pilots who take the plunge and make a substantial investment in themselves in order to advance their careers ahead of those possessed of more timid dispositions. Ryanair only takes the best of applicants, as anyone who has undergone our recruitment procedure knows only too well. Those who take part in a Ryanair Type Rating know full well that they stand an excellent chance of making it on line with a wildly successful LCC, and commencing their careers in a way that’s hard to imagine eclipsing.
Brand new aircraft and rapid promotions in a world-leading organisation like Ryanair will never be the professional objective of everyone, especially the terminally aggrieved windbags of the BALPA proselytizers, but then it was ever thus. Every other airline is downsizing or going bust, but that doesn't matter does it? Have you so soon forgotten, you few agitators who forlornly cling to the view that BLAPA are of any more substance than an oily fart in a blizzard, that in truth they’re as useless as tits on a bull? When asked to **** or get off the pot, BLAPA always choose the latter. It was ever thus and always will be.
Well folks, after an entirely underwhelming response from Ryanair pilots, whose fate, it seems, is to be forever forced into repeatedly demonstrating they don’t want BALPA recognition, even after BLAPA’s embarrassingly expensive 2.5 million pound apotheosis to thinly conceived half-arsery that they called their “Dignity and Respect” campaign, they got off the pot alright, and in a timely fashion too, because had they put up properly, they’d have been compelled to shut up for a further three years...oh happy day. From Aldente & Co. we’re witnessing nothing more than the pressing of very sour grapes indeed.
Finally, if you seriously expect a rational public to accept there are pilots sleeping in their cars, you’re stretching BLAPA’s Bull****ometer to breaking point. Can you seriously expect that a pilot who shells out nigh-on €100,000 on a frozen ATPL, and thousands more still on a type rating, feels compelled by virtue of lack of available funds to sleeping in a carpark? Absolute bull**** on stilts. After type rating and line training, a matter of mere weeks, Ryanair pilots are pulling in serious coin. Those on a BRK contract are on the most financially lucrative first officer contracts on earth, a fact well known to the bottom feeders at BLAPA, hence their interest in pursuing all those lovely thousand pounds per year. I would too were I broke with a bunch of militant, final-salaried employees sucking me dry. They know it alright, but it’s not in their interest to advertise the fact.
Whistleblower asks “when will Ryanair pilots learn”? I think the more pertinent question is “when will BLAPA and the Irish pygmy IALPA learn? You are not wanted here. You are well known as the devious, back-door bores and purveyors of third-rate bull****, threats and intimidation that you are. We have your measure, we see your true colours, and yet you persist. Why?
Last edited by Leo Hairy-Camel; 9th Nov 2009 at 13:34. Reason: to fend off the grammar police
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Do you ever have anything useful to contribute other than invective?
It's not what you say, but how you say it. Any point you might have is lost in the sheer drudgery of you spittle inflected rantings.
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Leo,
Welcome back. As defensive as ever about your organisation and as rabid as ever against any threat (as you perceive it) that might expose the sham of Ryanairs claim of their pilots to be among the best paid.
So that you can convince us all of this claim I will ask you (again!), what do Ryanair pay into your pension?
Welcome back. As defensive as ever about your organisation and as rabid as ever against any threat (as you perceive it) that might expose the sham of Ryanairs claim of their pilots to be among the best paid.
So that you can convince us all of this claim I will ask you (again!), what do Ryanair pay into your pension?
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Ryanair only takes the best of applicants, as anyone who has undergone our recruitment procedure knows only too well.
Do you actually believe this? RYR has got some extremely good crews undoubtedly, but I do know a few people who work for that organisation who shouldn't be in charge of counting paperclips, let alone a public transport aircraft.
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I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice that rather than deal with the points raised (other than issue a bland denial of the sleeping in the car story despite someone posting here or in the other thread that they gave coffee to some poor sod doing just that) Leo Hairy immediately tries to drag this over to the union debate.
That'll be the 'smoke' part then.
And that'll be the mirrors. Surely you mean Brookfield? Didn't think RYR employed any n00bs these days. Isn't that how they avoid things like tax, NI and all the othe necces.....sorry, luxuries?
That'll be the 'smoke' part then.
...Ryanair does offer employment...
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I'm currently a 5/5 BRK floating FO. I'm very early 20s, got nearly 2000 hrs flying 100 hours per month - mad keen and really enjoy it.
Maybe one day it'll wear on me, but I am a little disappointed to see so much animosity between all of us who share the same airspace. I try and be as professional as possible to represent my trade, and hope I'm not looked down on after I climb into a 738 blue, yellow & white jet.
I do understand where a lot of the anti Ryanair campaign arises from, and some points made are valid. But understand why as a whole the Pilot group from Ryanair stand united against (please don't misconstrue this for pro BALPA) various onslaughts, it is a good place to work. Nice new aircraft, I flew one today that was 3 weeks from production line, really friendly people to work with daily, great training department and a promising early upgrade and possibilities of further advancement to your CV with TRE, SFI, LTC and base captain positions always being offered.
Finally from a financial side of things, as I said I fly a lot, I get 100.5 euro per hour, and last four months I've done 400 hours....I'll let you calculate. I've paid my debts off already and I'm looking forward to a good future here.
This isn't a invitation to a pointless fight, I just thought I'd share my experience so far. Take it or leave it!!
All the best
Maybe one day it'll wear on me, but I am a little disappointed to see so much animosity between all of us who share the same airspace. I try and be as professional as possible to represent my trade, and hope I'm not looked down on after I climb into a 738 blue, yellow & white jet.
I do understand where a lot of the anti Ryanair campaign arises from, and some points made are valid. But understand why as a whole the Pilot group from Ryanair stand united against (please don't misconstrue this for pro BALPA) various onslaughts, it is a good place to work. Nice new aircraft, I flew one today that was 3 weeks from production line, really friendly people to work with daily, great training department and a promising early upgrade and possibilities of further advancement to your CV with TRE, SFI, LTC and base captain positions always being offered.
Finally from a financial side of things, as I said I fly a lot, I get 100.5 euro per hour, and last four months I've done 400 hours....I'll let you calculate. I've paid my debts off already and I'm looking forward to a good future here.
This isn't a invitation to a pointless fight, I just thought I'd share my experience so far. Take it or leave it!!
All the best