Finnair pilots threaten strike action
Thread Starter
Finnair pilots threaten strike action
In a rather rare development, the pilotsī union which Finnair pilots belong to now threatens total strike action on November 16 unless a new agreement can be reached. The previous collctive agreement expired a year ago in Nov 2008. Finnair pilots have been on strike only once in the seventies in a sympathy strike for the international pilots union, so this situation really is unheard of.
Much of the disagreement is based on Finnairīs outsourcing plans. The company wants to lease out Embraers to an independent private airline (Finncomm) and has asked Finnair instructor pilots to train new Finncomm pilots who would then in fact take away their jobs when the training is finished - which hasnīt gone down particularly well - and there is no love lost between the pilots and the resigning CEO Hienonen anyway... Interesting times for Finnair
UPDATE 1-Finnair pilots threaten strike for Nov 16 -union | Stocks | Reuters
Much of the disagreement is based on Finnairīs outsourcing plans. The company wants to lease out Embraers to an independent private airline (Finncomm) and has asked Finnair instructor pilots to train new Finncomm pilots who would then in fact take away their jobs when the training is finished - which hasnīt gone down particularly well - and there is no love lost between the pilots and the resigning CEO Hienonen anyway... Interesting times for Finnair
UPDATE 1-Finnair pilots threaten strike for Nov 16 -union | Stocks | Reuters
It's Lorenzo's recipe: when company gets unrecoverable, force the union(s) into strike by giving them completely outrageous proposal so when the company goes under, ignorant majority blames the striking workers.
Whichever way it turns out, there will be new source of experienced pilots. Not that there's much demand nowadays, anyway.
Whichever way it turns out, there will be new source of experienced pilots. Not that there's much demand nowadays, anyway.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Poor lads now they are willing to go on strike.they have got everything during past years what ever have come up in their minds. Now these guys wants to run the company and almost wants to nominate a CEO ,someone should already realize that Finnair is one of the old companies which can not afford to operate like they did in past.too many long haul aircraft to operate in a nation of 5 million people and then selling cheap tickets just the get nice cabin factors from asia to finland and europe.I think ,face the reality otherwise you will be in deep sh....... t
A Runyonesque Character
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The South of France ... Not
Age: 74
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Finnair used to be one of the best airlines in Europe, now it's a basket case and a laughing stock. I was present at a farewell speech by Hienonen the other day, he said, coming from retail, he just couldn't get his head around why a company's employees should want to trash the company. He wasn't pushed, he jumped, without a parachute. He'd rather be unemployed than try to manage a company like that.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Finnair
Without taking any side in this boohaahaa I would like to present a couple of points.
First Finnair is far from being a laughing stock. A well established and reputable company offering a good product to the customers. Tickets are from from being "Cheap". SAS on the otherhand with its Sidekick-Joe's around the Nordic are quickly becoming exactly what was mentioned above.
Have a look at the fleet age and condition. Compare the market up North. Finnair has the newest, cleanest fleet with probably the best service onboard out of all carriers based from that area. SAS certainly does not offer much competition on fleet age/service areas.
However I would urge Finnair pilots or rather the union leadership to pull their head out of their a.sses and really think if it is worth it in the long run to strike, especially during the present economic situation. Inflexible union has been the destructive force behind many a company demise in the history of aviation. Further the public opinnion is certainly not supportive of the pilot force in Finland due to the percieved or actual T&C of the said pilots especially as I know these to be in league with the best in the world.
I do understand that after having many good years with increasing benefits, it is difficult to adapt to present situation and perhaps even the unwillingness to accept what is happening. But what would one prefer, to drop some benefits and reduce income and retirement with a chance to re-negotiate at a later date, or have the hand thats feeding you cut and go out of business? I know what I would choose, do you?
First Finnair is far from being a laughing stock. A well established and reputable company offering a good product to the customers. Tickets are from from being "Cheap". SAS on the otherhand with its Sidekick-Joe's around the Nordic are quickly becoming exactly what was mentioned above.
Have a look at the fleet age and condition. Compare the market up North. Finnair has the newest, cleanest fleet with probably the best service onboard out of all carriers based from that area. SAS certainly does not offer much competition on fleet age/service areas.
However I would urge Finnair pilots or rather the union leadership to pull their head out of their a.sses and really think if it is worth it in the long run to strike, especially during the present economic situation. Inflexible union has been the destructive force behind many a company demise in the history of aviation. Further the public opinnion is certainly not supportive of the pilot force in Finland due to the percieved or actual T&C of the said pilots especially as I know these to be in league with the best in the world.
I do understand that after having many good years with increasing benefits, it is difficult to adapt to present situation and perhaps even the unwillingness to accept what is happening. But what would one prefer, to drop some benefits and reduce income and retirement with a chance to re-negotiate at a later date, or have the hand thats feeding you cut and go out of business? I know what I would choose, do you?
Join Date: May 2006
Location: U.S.
Age: 53
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know the details about the negotiations, but that is a clever way for the company to introduce B-scale workers to do much of the narrow body flying. Passengers like the Embraer product and it has a decent range. There's many a former 320/737 pilot in the USA who wishes that unions would have taken a stand against outsourcing when they had the chance.
Thread Starter
IFALPA requests sympathy action in support of the Finnish pilots union:
https://www.sllpilots.fi/public/tied...ce-Finland.pdf
https://www.sllpilots.fi/public/tied...ce-Finland.pdf
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: One hump; two if you're pretty.
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DAGs of the world, UNITE!
Attention Finnair pilots.
We, the doomed, salute you.
Let's join together to form the Doomed Airline's Group, the DAG. Tiny populations, grossly inflated fleets, fur-lined pilots with an inflated sense of their own values, and enough combined ego to choke a donkey.
Forget market forces! Unite or Perish.
Rattle your DAGS DAGS DAGS.
We, the doomed, salute you.
Let's join together to form the Doomed Airline's Group, the DAG. Tiny populations, grossly inflated fleets, fur-lined pilots with an inflated sense of their own values, and enough combined ego to choke a donkey.
Forget market forces! Unite or Perish.
Rattle your DAGS DAGS DAGS.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Finland
Age: 77
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't speak Finnish but my wife does so I am speaking second hand here.
I am told this is essentially the same arguement as Balpa had with BA in the late 90's.
It is about "scope" and in that respect every BA pilot should be supporting these guys.
We won that arguement then and that is why the pilots at LGW are on the same deal as those at LHR.
It is a pity that the cabin crew did not follow our lead.
Their (BA cabin crew) current situation is in part due to them not following our lead.
I am told this is essentially the same arguement as Balpa had with BA in the late 90's.
It is about "scope" and in that respect every BA pilot should be supporting these guys.
We won that arguement then and that is why the pilots at LGW are on the same deal as those at LHR.
It is a pity that the cabin crew did not follow our lead.
Their (BA cabin crew) current situation is in part due to them not following our lead.
Thread Starter
At present, there are no negotiations scheduled until after the strike has started, so the strike may last who knows for how long:
NewsRoom Finland
NewsRoom Finland
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Negotiations concerning the Finnair pilots collective agreement and especially Scope issues/outsourcing have been unsuccessful. Finnair is aggressively going further with its plans to crew Finnair cockpits with
pilots not included in the Finnair seniority list, using various loopholes in EU-OPS."That was from IFALPA:
https://www.sllpilots.fi/public/tied...ce-Finland.pdf
Sounds like a valid reason to go on strike. The airlines are using today's difficult business environment to get their emplyees to accept anyting.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmondshire
Age: 66
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How wonderful. Leo Hairy Camel, a modern Lord Haw-Haw, aka William Joyce, is treating readers with his views on the topic in question. I wonder whether his shrill little friend Slim Shandy will be joining the party?
For any Finnish readers not familiar with Lord Haw-Haw (I know you do a good line in resisting belligerent outside elements), he was a World War 2 Nazi radio propagandist of British origin who broadcast into English homes during the war. After the German defeat, he was hung by the British as a traitor.
It's good to see unlike the pygmy pilots of Ryanair and elsewhere, some in Europe are willing to make a stand.
Best of luck!
For any Finnish readers not familiar with Lord Haw-Haw (I know you do a good line in resisting belligerent outside elements), he was a World War 2 Nazi radio propagandist of British origin who broadcast into English homes during the war. After the German defeat, he was hung by the British as a traitor.
It's good to see unlike the pygmy pilots of Ryanair and elsewhere, some in Europe are willing to make a stand.
Best of luck!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said Barden
There was also a bit of previous with the (re) introduction of Aero Airlines by Finnair about 5 years ago to operate routes with Estonian based crews although I remember the pilots were primarily Finnish.
Aero was the original Finnair and in its recent form operated domestic and regional routes with ATRs.
It was closed 3 years ago and the independent Finncomm took over its routes with its own crews. The F/O's where straight from the sausage factories and there where a number of safety incidents.
At the time of Aero's introduction I believe there was union negotiations taking place and Aero appeared to be a company negotiating tool.
Current issues are related to the rise of Finncomm so unlike the US pilots who wish they should have fought harder with their scope clauses, the Finns have the round objects to stand up for themselves and their profession.
Good on them and shame on those weaklings who justify their own cowardice
by criticising the brave minority.
History repeats itself.
There was also a bit of previous with the (re) introduction of Aero Airlines by Finnair about 5 years ago to operate routes with Estonian based crews although I remember the pilots were primarily Finnish.
Aero was the original Finnair and in its recent form operated domestic and regional routes with ATRs.
It was closed 3 years ago and the independent Finncomm took over its routes with its own crews. The F/O's where straight from the sausage factories and there where a number of safety incidents.
At the time of Aero's introduction I believe there was union negotiations taking place and Aero appeared to be a company negotiating tool.
Current issues are related to the rise of Finncomm so unlike the US pilots who wish they should have fought harder with their scope clauses, the Finns have the round objects to stand up for themselves and their profession.
Good on them and shame on those weaklings who justify their own cowardice
by criticising the brave minority.
History repeats itself.
Thread Starter
It was revealed in a press conference that the company managementīs proposal was to outsource 20 % of the smaller aircraft, meaning E-jets, and also 7 "bigger jets". The wording in the proposal would in fact give the management a free hand to outsource seven of the widebodies 
so itīs no wonder the pilots did not accept this kind "offer".
so itīs no wonder the pilots did not accept this kind "offer".