Why are Pilots such Idiots!!!
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Why are Pilots such Idiots!!!
Please excuse the title but it got your attention!!
I have just flicked through FI job section and I am mortified to see that almost every position available is through one of the parasitic agencies.
Typically the salary being offered by these outfits is WAY below the salary one would expect for an experienced professional. When I first looked at KAL many years ago the salary was the same 10K that it is now!!!
Are we idiots?!!! The agencies are keeping salaries pegged and they are taking a large commission. What do they do for such a large chunk of our salary? Do we REALLY need them to hold our hand and help us get a Job?
I am dismayed that apparently so many of my colleges deal with these parasites. I have never used them and never will.
I Herby appeal to all concerned to boycot these outfits and apply DIRECT to the airline stating salary expectations and your unwillingness to deal through these agents. Only by sticking together will we rid ourselves of this parasitic disease that is driving down the COS in our hard earned professions
I have just flicked through FI job section and I am mortified to see that almost every position available is through one of the parasitic agencies.
Typically the salary being offered by these outfits is WAY below the salary one would expect for an experienced professional. When I first looked at KAL many years ago the salary was the same 10K that it is now!!!
Are we idiots?!!! The agencies are keeping salaries pegged and they are taking a large commission. What do they do for such a large chunk of our salary? Do we REALLY need them to hold our hand and help us get a Job?
I am dismayed that apparently so many of my colleges deal with these parasites. I have never used them and never will.
I Herby appeal to all concerned to boycot these outfits and apply DIRECT to the airline stating salary expectations and your unwillingness to deal through these agents. Only by sticking together will we rid ourselves of this parasitic disease that is driving down the COS in our hard earned professions
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...to boycot these outfits and apply DIRECT to the airline stating salary expectations and your unwillingness to deal through these agents. Only by sticking together will we rid ourselves of this parasitic disease that is driving down the COS in our hard earned professions
In many cases, work through the agency...or do without.
A simple concept to understand.
Next...
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Typically the salary being offered by these outfits is WAY below the salary one would expect for an experienced professional.
And the Brits said "Hire two Ozzie's and they'll form a labour union!"
Of course, hire an American and he'll quit when a job driving the lav truck opens up back home...
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Why are Pilots such Idiots!!!
The local labor laws prevent direct employment of foreign professionals, hence Agency… I believe that the companies like KAL, ANA, Asiana would like to bypass the same but… By the way the salary is not as high as the ones (used to be) in US or somewhere else, but unfortunately thanks to deregulation and some other forces the others had come down… Annual salary of US$ 150,000 is not that low any more… still better than the food stamps with Uncle Sam… In this industry if one (Captain or Senior F/O) wants to change the company, airline, for better pay he/she has to start from the junior F/O level… How come that we protect the seniority and the doctors, professors, managers, engineers and like don’t? Why the Captain from any american airline with (still) 6 digit salary on heavy equipment has to start after the years of services in the same airspace, same type, and same license at the junior F/O pay scale? We are doing it to ourselves… 
Last edited by Brave heart; 28th Oct 2009 at 03:48. Reason: Title change
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I Herby appeal to all concerned to boycot these outfits and apply DIRECT to the airline stating salary expectations and your unwillingness to deal through these agents. Only by sticking together will we rid ourselves of this parasitic disease that is driving down the COS in our hard earned professions
! When the meeting convenes... take a head count... 1... that's you
.Sorry Mick... but time for a reality check.
We are doing it to ourselves
? Pity.
Last edited by captjns; 29th Oct 2009 at 18:07.
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We have ALPA regional carriers bidding competitively for lowball contracts, undercutting each others' labor cost to win agreements with mainline carriers - which, of course, amounts to more outsourced labor from yet another another ALPA carrier.
ALPA carriers are being pit against each other on a daily basis, and there doesn't seem to be a labor group in the country that is capable of doing anything about it.
ALPA carriers are being pit against each other on a daily basis, and there doesn't seem to be a labor group in the country that is capable of doing anything about it.
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ALPA carriers are being pit against each other on a daily basis, and there doesn't seem to be a labor group in the country that is capable of doing anything about it.
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411a you are an idiot and always have been so I wont even bother.
I am not posting this because I am looking for a job. Im not.
However, As stated companies like KAL and ANA are restricted by national legislation. I put it to you if no one accepted these crap jobs then the legislation would CHANGE. That is the very nature of the law.
I have and will continue to stand by my principles and will NOT work for these pirates. I would rather change my profession then lend a hand in its demise.
Other professionals also stand by their principles and that is why Doctors lawyers managers etc are not treated as blue collar workers the way that we are.
Our industry is being destroyed by this current generation of pilots placing their petty self interest before their principles.
I call for those of you with the BIG PICTURE to refuse to deal with the agencies and protect this profession for the generations to follow.
I am sure that many of you will snigger at such a suggestion but it is because of the likes of you and your truck driver attitude to your profession that we are where we are now.
I am not posting this because I am looking for a job. Im not.
However, As stated companies like KAL and ANA are restricted by national legislation. I put it to you if no one accepted these crap jobs then the legislation would CHANGE. That is the very nature of the law.
I have and will continue to stand by my principles and will NOT work for these pirates. I would rather change my profession then lend a hand in its demise.
Other professionals also stand by their principles and that is why Doctors lawyers managers etc are not treated as blue collar workers the way that we are.
Our industry is being destroyed by this current generation of pilots placing their petty self interest before their principles.
I call for those of you with the BIG PICTURE to refuse to deal with the agencies and protect this profession for the generations to follow.
I am sure that many of you will snigger at such a suggestion but it is because of the likes of you and your truck driver attitude to your profession that we are where we are now.
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There are many reasons why pilots are, "such idiots," as you put it. First & foremost we need to look at ourselves & take the majority of the responsibility. A pilot's job is still perceived as glamorous by many people outside of the aviation business (even though the glamour left sometime in the late eighties, early nineties, never to return) & therefore there is a constant flow of young people who want to get into it, still. Therefore supply outstrips demand & in basic economic terms drives down our worth.
Secondly the pathetic union activity which perpetuates a ridiculous seniority system whereby an experienced person virtually always starts in a new company at the foot of the table (& always does if that company is unionized). How the hell can this be right? Friends of mine who are solicitors, doctors, engineers, accountants etc., cannot believe that we tolerate such bull****, but, of course, we do. The only crew who benefit from this are those on the top 10% of the lists but I suppose that's some compensation for being fat & bald 
As for pilots standing together: forget it. Do you remember Cathay about nine years ago? When those 50 or so guys stood up for what they believed in & tried to safeguard one of the few remaining places 'to be' in aviation most of their so called friends & colleagues took one step back & let them hang; now look at the shambles of Cathay today! They admitted in 2007 that they couldn't even fill in the recruitment/selection dates because we all know how low they have sunk. So where do we go?
In my case I was working for the biggest pirate of them all, flying low cost around Europe. Before that I worked for Jet2: the nastiest, & lowest T&Cs bashing company in the UK right now, at times they can make O'Leary look like Mother Teresa. Before that I was flying holiday makers down to Greece for peanuts but that was better than the turbo prop jobs I'd had prior. Where was I going to go? BA or Virgin with their above mentioned stupid union driven seniority lists, whereby Little Nigel who started with them before me but has only limited experience gets the best of everything: trip requests, vacation, promotion prospects, salary? Not a chance.
By far the best choice in my circumstances was to become a contractor. It gives me a lifestyle that most of my compatriots living & working in the UK on permanent contracts can only dream of with more cash in hand, more time off & I get a shot at a command in a very reasonable space of time. In short it changes my circumstances from having a dead-end job to having a career.
On the down side, Mick Jagger, I agree with you that the salaries have remained static for a long time now, in real terms, but where haven't they? It's not just a phenomenon of the contracting world; if you look at the equivalent salaries of all pilots compared to 20 years ago we've all been going down, so I fail to see why you save such angst for the agencies? As for pilots all standing together to be counted; well there's more chance of an amoeba growing a backbone!
Secondly the pathetic union activity which perpetuates a ridiculous seniority system whereby an experienced person virtually always starts in a new company at the foot of the table (& always does if that company is unionized). How the hell can this be right? Friends of mine who are solicitors, doctors, engineers, accountants etc., cannot believe that we tolerate such bull****, but, of course, we do.
The only crew who benefit from this are those on the top 10% of the lists but I suppose that's some compensation for being fat & bald As for pilots standing together: forget it. Do you remember Cathay about nine years ago? When those 50 or so guys stood up for what they believed in & tried to safeguard one of the few remaining places 'to be' in aviation most of their so called friends & colleagues took one step back & let them hang; now look at the shambles of Cathay today! They admitted in 2007 that they couldn't even fill in the recruitment/selection dates because we all know how low they have sunk. So where do we go?
In my case I was working for the biggest pirate of them all, flying low cost around Europe. Before that I worked for Jet2: the nastiest, & lowest T&Cs bashing company in the UK right now, at times they can make O'Leary look like Mother Teresa. Before that I was flying holiday makers down to Greece for peanuts but that was better than the turbo prop jobs I'd had prior. Where was I going to go? BA or Virgin with their above mentioned stupid union driven seniority lists, whereby Little Nigel who started with them before me but has only limited experience gets the best of everything: trip requests, vacation, promotion prospects, salary? Not a chance.
By far the best choice in my circumstances was to become a contractor. It gives me a lifestyle that most of my compatriots living & working in the UK on permanent contracts can only dream of with more cash in hand, more time off & I get a shot at a command in a very reasonable space of time. In short it changes my circumstances from having a dead-end job to having a career.On the down side, Mick Jagger, I agree with you that the salaries have remained static for a long time now, in real terms, but where haven't they? It's not just a phenomenon of the contracting world; if you look at the equivalent salaries of all pilots compared to 20 years ago we've all been going down, so I fail to see why you save such angst for the agencies? As for pilots all standing together to be counted; well there's more chance of an amoeba growing a backbone!
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Well Hello Mickey!
I have no idea what your circumstances are, but many of us started our lives with very little. I started out as line boy and have worked my way to a 747-400 captain. I may not have the best paying job in the world, I have no retirement other than what I have saved for, but I have worked very hard to be where I am, and am somewhat proud of my accomplishments.
I have no idea where you work, but I can surmise that you have it pretty good. most likely due to luck!
WE all do what we have to do to pay the mortgage. I sure hope you never have to make the decision of whether to take that low paying job, or stick by your brethren, and gome homeless and eat in the soup kitchen. I have an idea of what the outcome would be.
I have no idea what your circumstances are, but many of us started our lives with very little. I started out as line boy and have worked my way to a 747-400 captain. I may not have the best paying job in the world, I have no retirement other than what I have saved for, but I have worked very hard to be where I am, and am somewhat proud of my accomplishments.
I have no idea where you work, but I can surmise that you have it pretty good. most likely due to luck!
WE all do what we have to do to pay the mortgage. I sure hope you never have to make the decision of whether to take that low paying job, or stick by your brethren, and gome homeless and eat in the soup kitchen. I have an idea of what the outcome would be.
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Seems 'ole Mickey is just a tad misinformed (why are we not surprised...)
Just today spoke to a friend of mine that did nine years with NCA, working through an agency, and here is what he had to say....
'Best job I ever had, big bucks, well maintained aircraft, the agency paid on time and looked after us well. And, best of all, plenty of time off, at my home here in Arizona'.
So, there it is...works good, lasts a long time.
Me thinks poor' ole Mickey was turned down, hence the sour grapes.
)Just today spoke to a friend of mine that did nine years with NCA, working through an agency, and here is what he had to say....
'Best job I ever had, big bucks, well maintained aircraft, the agency paid on time and looked after us well. And, best of all, plenty of time off, at my home here in Arizona'.
So, there it is...works good, lasts a long time.
Me thinks poor' ole Mickey was turned down, hence the sour grapes.
Well, obviously if you can enjoy all your time off in the Eden that is Arizona money is probably not even a consideration ..
And just think, you get to share the state with 411a, God's gift to aviation
And just think, you get to share the state with 411a, God's gift to aviation
