On strike with Ryanair!
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I too sympathise with the new guys but you have to ask yourself the following. Over the last years (the good ones) Management have taken much away from pilots' T & Cs. This was without any negotiation and whilst making a million pounds a day. The next years are going to be tough so who knows what is next to go. Each generation of Captain has worse T & Cs than the last so what will it be for the new guys in 3 years unless they make a stand now? There needs to be a clear structure for negotiation so that FR can be a place to build a career.
Its just a shame that FR are fighting it. At the end of the day, everyone wants the company to be profitable.
Its just a shame that FR are fighting it. At the end of the day, everyone wants the company to be profitable.
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backwardsman and rednex,
you are model Ryanair employees (as far as the mangement are concerned !)
You have swallowed all of the management bull**** and believe it wholeheartedly. You are now in fear of your job.
Exactly where the management wants you to be ......
You're young, you'll learn .......
you are model Ryanair employees (as far as the mangement are concerned !)
You have swallowed all of the management bull**** and believe it wholeheartedly. You are now in fear of your job.
Exactly where the management wants you to be ......
You're young, you'll learn .......
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biz airfrance,
was mighty AirFrance that good as it is to you today when it all started?
I don't think so and your unions have worked hard for you to have the T&C you can enjoy today.
And that's what we are talking about here now, Ryanair is only 10 years old and just like a teenager it has to grow up and become an adult.
And to do that we don't need to hear how good you are but we need your support in fighting our cause so that the companies like your can become the model and not Ryanair as it is today.
Tu ai bien compris?
was mighty AirFrance that good as it is to you today when it all started?
I don't think so and your unions have worked hard for you to have the T&C you can enjoy today.
And that's what we are talking about here now, Ryanair is only 10 years old and just like a teenager it has to grow up and become an adult.
And to do that we don't need to hear how good you are but we need your support in fighting our cause so that the companies like your can become the model and not Ryanair as it is today.
Tu ai bien compris?
Thread Starter
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In Air France, we have a a better filiere (?), we are recruit(ing) like cadets with no aeronautique (aeronautical) experience, then we do the cpl, ir, mcc, atpl theoric, and we reach a good level (IN ENGLISH?). then we go in (to) QT (=Type rating) a320. We have (a) free training and we have (a) salary when (while) study(ing) .
But of course, selection is more strict than in ryanair.
I think, when I read your words, that you passed the Famous Air France english test!
, Do you think you have the ICAO level 4? (no more than 2!)
your friends that are french maybe did not have the capacity for be a good Air France CDB, but I do not cry against them.
BiZ (cadet) OPL Airbus Air France
I am fully sorry for this asshol, He is not representative of the French pilots, don't take his words in account!
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Ryanair Pilots, please accept Air France Capt's humble Apologies !!!
Hello all,
I am presently flying for Air France, as an A320 Cpt.
I have come accross the different postings by "BIZ_airfrance" who portraits himself as an Air France Cadet.
The contents of his posts, both through form and meaning are an embarrassment to the entire Air France pilots corporation...
Let me express to all of you our deepest apologies for the rantings of this unchecked individual !
Let me also express my SERIOUS DOUBTS as to the veracity of his claim to be an F/O at AF. Especially a Cadet, as they now have very high standards for their English tests.
I agree it has not always been the case in our beloved company, but the lessons of the past have been learned, and the "new" (last 10-15 years) recruits ALL have a very good grasp on the English language.
So, sorry about that folks !
Now, about the strike:
His situation (if he really is at AF) is the fruit of years of union fighting. How dare he be against anyone in the industry trying to improve his working conditions that way (often, the only way ! !)
@ BIZ-Airfrance:
Arrête tes conneries, tu nous fait honte ! ! Si tu es vraiment de la boite, va faire des stages d'anglais !
Il existe une fraternité des pilotes, même d'autres compagnies...
I am presently flying for Air France, as an A320 Cpt.
I have come accross the different postings by "BIZ_airfrance" who portraits himself as an Air France Cadet.
The contents of his posts, both through form and meaning are an embarrassment to the entire Air France pilots corporation...
Let me express to all of you our deepest apologies for the rantings of this unchecked individual !
Let me also express my SERIOUS DOUBTS as to the veracity of his claim to be an F/O at AF. Especially a Cadet, as they now have very high standards for their English tests.
I agree it has not always been the case in our beloved company, but the lessons of the past have been learned, and the "new" (last 10-15 years) recruits ALL have a very good grasp on the English language.
So, sorry about that folks !
Now, about the strike:
His situation (if he really is at AF) is the fruit of years of union fighting. How dare he be against anyone in the industry trying to improve his working conditions that way (often, the only way ! !
)@ BIZ-Airfrance:
Arrête tes conneries, tu nous fait honte ! ! Si tu es vraiment de la boite, va faire des stages d'anglais !
Il existe une fraternité des pilotes, même d'autres compagnies...
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To cut a long story short, the individual behind "BiZ_Airfrance" is someone who has some sort of gripe against another member of the forum (BiZ2000). I can assure you BiZ_Airfrance DOES NOT work for Air France, and has nothing to with Air France whatsoever. So please stop yourselves getting wound up by this guy.
He sounds a bit like the infamous "nuageblanc".
Now, back to the topic.
He sounds a bit like the infamous "nuageblanc".
Now, back to the topic.
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Anything to do with BiZ has nothing to do with Air France.
Biz Air France is obnoxious, boastful, has a cr@p english, ON PURPOSE, so as to make people at Air France look so. He wants to make pilots from all horizons feel as if AF pilots despise the rest of the world which is so untrue !!!
This guy is mentally ill. He's named himself the name of an AF pilot who signs up as "BiZ" on the PPrune's French equivalent, Radiocockpit where he calls him "bizette" which translates fairly correctly as "sissie" and he maintains a constant and high level of agressiveness towards him.
"BiZ Air France" messages are laughable if they were not that degrading for the French "Biz" and for Air France pilots in general.
Sorry for the disturbance. This is purely French turmoil exported to the world. You guys should not be spattered with all this ****.
Biz Air France is obnoxious, boastful, has a cr@p english, ON PURPOSE, so as to make people at Air France look so. He wants to make pilots from all horizons feel as if AF pilots despise the rest of the world which is so untrue !!!
This guy is mentally ill. He's named himself the name of an AF pilot who signs up as "BiZ" on the PPrune's French equivalent, Radiocockpit where he calls him "bizette" which translates fairly correctly as "sissie" and he maintains a constant and high level of agressiveness towards him.
"BiZ Air France" messages are laughable if they were not that degrading for the French "Biz" and for Air France pilots in general.
Sorry for the disturbance. This is purely French turmoil exported to the world. You guys should not be spattered with all this ****.
Last edited by AF jockey; 18th Jun 2009 at 10:11.
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@ AF Jockey,
I have told BIZ2000, I am not BIZ AF !!!
I may have a lot of bad habits, but not that one to be a liar !
I don t have time to waste, pretending to be BIZ2000 or whatsoever he calls himself..
For me the debate is closed !
I rest my case .
I have told BIZ2000, I am not BIZ AF !!!
I may have a lot of bad habits, but not that one to be a liar !
I don t have time to waste, pretending to be BIZ2000 or whatsoever he calls himself..
For me the debate is closed !
I rest my case .
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For those of you thinking that Ryanair will not deal with Balpa, Take a look at their filing to the US SEC .
Quote "#
relations in the Company and could impact the Company’s business or results of operations.
This Info can be found in the Investor Relations section of the Ryanair Website.
Quote "#
In addition, in the United Kingdom, the British Airline Pilots Association
(“BALPA”) in 2001 unsuccessfully sought to represent Ryanair’s U.K.-based pilots in their negotiations with the
Company. BALPA may request that a new ballot on representation be undertaken among Ryanair’s U.K. pilot
body, which, if successful, would allow the U.K. pilots to be represented by BALPA in negotiations over pilot
salaries and working conditions.(“BALPA”) in 2001 unsuccessfully sought to represent Ryanair’s U.K.-based pilots in their negotiations with the
Company. BALPA may request that a new ballot on representation be undertaken among Ryanair’s U.K. pilot
body, which, if successful, would allow the U.K. pilots to be represented by BALPA in negotiations over pilot
Labor Relations Could Expose the Company to Risk.
A variety of factors, including, but not limited to, the
Company’s recent profitability, may make it more difficult for Ryanair to maintain its current base salary levels
and current employee productivity and compensation arrangements. Consequently, there can be no assurance that
Ryanair’s existing employee compensation arrangements may not be subject to change or modification at any
time. However, given deterioration in the economic prospects of the Company, the Company has sought to freeze
certain employees’ pay and eliminate redundant positions. These steps may lead to deteriorations in labor
Company’s recent profitability, may make it more difficult for Ryanair to maintain its current base salary levels
and current employee productivity and compensation arrangements. Consequently, there can be no assurance that
Ryanair’s existing employee compensation arrangements may not be subject to change or modification at any
time. However, given deterioration in the economic prospects of the Company, the Company has sought to freeze
certain employees’ pay and eliminate redundant positions. These steps may lead to deteriorations in labor
relations in the Company and could impact the Company’s business or results of operations.
This Info can be found in the Investor Relations section of the Ryanair Website.
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Oddly enough a similar statement is lacking from the Southwest Airlines Investor Relations page.
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Guys, have a look at what's going on at British Airways and BALPA 
... Do you really think that Balpa will make Ryanair do a 180 degrees turn in terms of conditions, salary, etc?? 
Come on guys, as said before many times in this topic, the King is Michael O Leary, he will do what HE wants with his airline. He can easily sack any disturbing guys with a crap brookfield contract, in just one second with no explanation. I am sure that many new cadets who be willing to pay their type rating for twice more than it is now, and they will put their trouser down and accept to do 500 hours for free.
After all Ryanair is not that bad. 5/4 roster, new aircraft, many bases all over europe, no nightstops, nice cabin crews, planes are always full, many destinations, money is OK.
Ryanair will never improve, but also, I am sure that other legacy airlines will get their salary and conditions worse and worse.
... Do you really think that Balpa will make Ryanair do a 180 degrees turn in terms of conditions, salary, etc?? Come on guys, as said before many times in this topic, the King is Michael O Leary, he will do what HE wants with his airline. He can easily sack any disturbing guys with a crap brookfield contract, in just one second with no explanation. I am sure that many new cadets who be willing to pay their type rating for twice more than it is now, and they will put their trouser down and accept to do 500 hours for free.After all Ryanair is not that bad. 5/4 roster, new aircraft, many bases all over europe, no nightstops, nice cabin crews, planes are always full, many destinations, money is OK.
Ryanair will never improve, but also, I am sure that other legacy airlines will get their salary and conditions worse and worse.
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as for U.S. SEC filings Ryan Air can say what they want. unless it's a financial disclosure, it their opinion. Buy some shares and go to a stockholder meeting then ask some questions.
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Vexed I agree with you 
The thing is Ryanair used to recruit experienced FOs with 1500 hours Jar25 and they had the type rating bonded for 5 years, and a Ryanair contract (not the crappy Brookfield one) which was very good indeed. Now, this is old story because Ryanair found out that it is cheaper to recruit wannabes willing to pay for everything, with pilots flying even when they are sick, or willing to fly maximum hours even on days off to get more cash, and untill there is no air disaster as a consequence of that, Ryanair will make maximum monney.
The problem is not MOL, but wannabe cadets and SFOs looking for command at any cost, those guys should go away
The thing is Ryanair used to recruit experienced FOs with 1500 hours Jar25 and they had the type rating bonded for 5 years, and a Ryanair contract (not the crappy Brookfield one) which was very good indeed. Now, this is old story because Ryanair found out that it is cheaper to recruit wannabes willing to pay for everything, with pilots flying even when they are sick, or willing to fly maximum hours even on days off to get more cash, and untill there is no air disaster as a consequence of that, Ryanair will make maximum monney.
The problem is not MOL, but wannabe cadets and SFOs looking for command at any cost, those guys should go away
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BIZ Air France
Why is everybody so wound up about Biz AF?
Why is everybody so happy and supportive to accept (and defend!) 3rd world working conditions and banana republic/pikey style union bashing?
What's wrong with you people?
It's supposed to be management that wants to lower our T&C's, not us!!
Why is everybody so happy and supportive to accept (and defend!) 3rd world working conditions and banana republic/pikey style union bashing?
What's wrong with you people?
It's supposed to be management that wants to lower our T&C's, not us!!
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think there's a line beyond which the job is not so attractive anymore.
My question is : what amount of **** do we have to take to make the balance sheet for this job become negative ? Below what sort of T&Cs are we supposed to prefer other types of jobs ? What is the line below which we have NOTHING TO LOSE ?
I don't work at Ryanair anymore. I've had enough of insults, whatever their form. I now fly for a legacy company. And I am actually starting to wonder whether this job will be mine for ever. I have another 20-25 years to go and considering the pace at which our conditions are plunging, why not deviate ?
I mean nearly zero Christmasses, very few weekends, mad body-clock, partial pressure going up and down and up and down. Security checks to make you feel happy early in the morning, being provided with water on board is now nearly a perk, my salary is ok but my class-mate is now making twice as much and gets to spend regular hours with family and friends. We've had a better start with him taking more stress home (and less money) while I was flying nice powerful jets. But in the longer run, his investment has proved a better return with more money and better quality of life and less stress.
You guys have nothing to lose joining BALPA. You're going get much lower if you don't.
Come on, make their day, as they put it so mildly...
My question is : what amount of **** do we have to take to make the balance sheet for this job become negative ? Below what sort of T&Cs are we supposed to prefer other types of jobs ? What is the line below which we have NOTHING TO LOSE ?
I don't work at Ryanair anymore. I've had enough of insults, whatever their form. I now fly for a legacy company. And I am actually starting to wonder whether this job will be mine for ever. I have another 20-25 years to go and considering the pace at which our conditions are plunging, why not deviate ?
I mean nearly zero Christmasses, very few weekends, mad body-clock, partial pressure going up and down and up and down. Security checks to make you feel happy early in the morning, being provided with water on board is now nearly a perk, my salary is ok but my class-mate is now making twice as much and gets to spend regular hours with family and friends. We've had a better start with him taking more stress home (and less money) while I was flying nice powerful jets. But in the longer run, his investment has proved a better return with more money and better quality of life and less stress.
You guys have nothing to lose joining BALPA. You're going get much lower if you don't.
Come on, make their day, as they put it so mildly...
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Having BALPA in place will present a proper consultation process between agreements opposed to the useless ERC model in place. You take it or off type model.
All the LTC's should just say until the current situation is resolved we will not be line training or checking. Although this needs unity and BALPA gives that single voice.
As a previous poster put it perfectly "THE QUESTION IS WHETHER STICKING WITH THE STATUS QUO IS ANY BETTER THAN BEING UNIONISED."
off type model.All the LTC's should just say until the current situation is resolved we will not be line training or checking. Although this needs unity and BALPA gives that single voice.
As a previous poster put it perfectly "THE QUESTION IS WHETHER STICKING WITH THE STATUS QUO IS ANY BETTER THAN BEING UNIONISED."
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I will keep on training, got an almost 100 % attendancy the last 2 years which I will try to keep, left balpa and joined an independant unioun for the legal stuff, enjoying my 5/4 roster, my pension is not the best in the world but it is there, got brand new equiptment and working for an airline that does'nt suffer as much as ALL the others, my guess is that in 2 - 3 years time the situation is opposite and Ryanair will have to make better T & C to make pilots stay, has always been like that.
Wote no to Balpa and you will be better of in the future.
Wote no to Balpa and you will be better of in the future.
