once your fully trained with Ryanair!
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It has been something that has always been in my family. I am the 3rd generation of pilot.
The only reason I am flying commercially is because I was to old to by a few months to join the RAF once I had finished my Uni courses and various other things. I passed all the apptiude tests and the like.
I think that almost everyone that enjoys flying dreams of the RAF. (I know that is a huge generalisation).
I think you will find that if you really enjoy flying GA, then flying commercially sucks. There is no free thinking. There is nothing other then "follow the magenta line". Sure, you can take the AP out and fly by hand, but at the end of the day, you can only operate as the company wants you to.
Real flying like PPL, and flight training doesn't happen in the world of the airlines.
If you are truely passionate about flying for a living, and enjoy what ACTUAL aviating is about, then I think you not going for one of the flying divisions of the various Armed Forces is a really big mistake.
If your idea of flying is; sitting for 12 hours in a 6x6 foot box with someone else saying "Are you high, low, or on profile", having a company breathing down your neck because you used 100kg of extra fuel on a sector because the wind on the computer generated flight plan was not correct; then commercial aviation, and especially Ryanair is for you.
I might be slightly out of line, but you just don't sound like you are really in it for the actual "flying" flying. I have met people that wanted to become a pilot because they liked the idea of flying to nice places, seeing the world, and meeting lots of hosties. In reality, unless you are flying Private or Corporate, you are going to be joining an aviation wide rat-race, that is becoming more and more thankless everyday.
People expect to get on a plane, leave on time, arrive on time, and then have the right to complain about the pilot making a "possitve arrival". Airline flying now is very much becoming a bus service of the sky. HOWEVER, it still requires skill and knowledge that has always been required by the pilots since flying first came about. There may be more automation now, but remember when the AP fails, you still have to fly and land that plane. Look at what happened to the FEDEX in Tokyo. Not to sure what happened, but it shows how quickly things go wrong. We are human at the end of the day, and it is all to easy to make a mistake and you're dead seconds later.
I am not trying to insinuate or suggest anything, or say that you shouldn't do it. I think that becoming a pilot these days costs so much money, and it will only get worse as the industry will follow Ryanair's lead and charge for everything and anything as long as they know people will pay for it. You are still young enough by the sounds to still get somone else to pay for it. To enjoy genuinly flying all over the world, meeting amazing people, having the time of your life and getting paid for it. All of that without outlaying a single penny. The real cost to you would be taking a real good hard look at what you actually want out of your career. If it is real flying that you want, then go for the forces, if it is an easy career that you want then go airlines.
Sorry to have gone on for so long, and I am sure there are lots of people that will disagree violently with me, but that is my opinion. I regret everyday not going for my selections 6 months earlier. It is something that I have to put up with now forever. Flying airlines is not a bad substitute, but it is not where my heart is. When I have covered the cost of all my flight training and type ratings and all of those things, then I would love to seriously consider flying GA or island hopping, because in my opinion, that is real flying where you make your own choices and have to rely on your ability, not on the magenta line and AutoPilot.
The only reason I am flying commercially is because I was to old to by a few months to join the RAF once I had finished my Uni courses and various other things. I passed all the apptiude tests and the like.
I think that almost everyone that enjoys flying dreams of the RAF. (I know that is a huge generalisation).
I think you will find that if you really enjoy flying GA, then flying commercially sucks. There is no free thinking. There is nothing other then "follow the magenta line". Sure, you can take the AP out and fly by hand, but at the end of the day, you can only operate as the company wants you to.
Real flying like PPL, and flight training doesn't happen in the world of the airlines.
If you are truely passionate about flying for a living, and enjoy what ACTUAL aviating is about, then I think you not going for one of the flying divisions of the various Armed Forces is a really big mistake.
If your idea of flying is; sitting for 12 hours in a 6x6 foot box with someone else saying "Are you high, low, or on profile", having a company breathing down your neck because you used 100kg of extra fuel on a sector because the wind on the computer generated flight plan was not correct; then commercial aviation, and especially Ryanair is for you.
I might be slightly out of line, but you just don't sound like you are really in it for the actual "flying" flying. I have met people that wanted to become a pilot because they liked the idea of flying to nice places, seeing the world, and meeting lots of hosties. In reality, unless you are flying Private or Corporate, you are going to be joining an aviation wide rat-race, that is becoming more and more thankless everyday.
People expect to get on a plane, leave on time, arrive on time, and then have the right to complain about the pilot making a "possitve arrival". Airline flying now is very much becoming a bus service of the sky. HOWEVER, it still requires skill and knowledge that has always been required by the pilots since flying first came about. There may be more automation now, but remember when the AP fails, you still have to fly and land that plane. Look at what happened to the FEDEX in Tokyo. Not to sure what happened, but it shows how quickly things go wrong. We are human at the end of the day, and it is all to easy to make a mistake and you're dead seconds later.
I am not trying to insinuate or suggest anything, or say that you shouldn't do it. I think that becoming a pilot these days costs so much money, and it will only get worse as the industry will follow Ryanair's lead and charge for everything and anything as long as they know people will pay for it. You are still young enough by the sounds to still get somone else to pay for it. To enjoy genuinly flying all over the world, meeting amazing people, having the time of your life and getting paid for it. All of that without outlaying a single penny. The real cost to you would be taking a real good hard look at what you actually want out of your career. If it is real flying that you want, then go for the forces, if it is an easy career that you want then go airlines.
Sorry to have gone on for so long, and I am sure there are lots of people that will disagree violently with me, but that is my opinion. I regret everyday not going for my selections 6 months earlier. It is something that I have to put up with now forever. Flying airlines is not a bad substitute, but it is not where my heart is. When I have covered the cost of all my flight training and type ratings and all of those things, then I would love to seriously consider flying GA or island hopping, because in my opinion, that is real flying where you make your own choices and have to rely on your ability, not on the magenta line and AutoPilot.
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You have to remember that in order for Ryanair to reach 300 aircraft you have to train lots of pilots. You start training them the year before for each succesive years growth, therefore, it is natural to have too many FO's around December every year as they are pilots trained with the spring deliveries in mind. When the growth stops, then musical chairs stops and the 'fast trick to command' also stops. That is what you need to factor in to your plans. This is definitely not the place to get stuck in the right seat.
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in my last airline
Thanks for your comment mate when you think about what you said it does make sense- its still not fair but i suppose managers are there to make money not to treat pilots fairly! But how long would it take a rookie to reach command- after what you said it must be more than 3 years
?
?
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When the growth stops, then musical chairs stops and the 'fast trick to command' also stops. That is what you need to factor in to your plans. This is definitely not the place to get stuck in the right seat.
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It must be extremely difficult to plan any airlines crewing requirements in the present turmoil. Ryanair were always 'lucky' because, 'til now they simply needed as many pilots as they and their external TRTO's could train. Now, given the uncertainty, they will probably still go ahead and train at least 3/4 of their requirements for 2009 projections and then panic train the final 1/4 if they are needed. With regards to joining, you should have a best case scenario and a worst. Best is 850 hours per year and a command when you have 3000 hours and the worst would be (guessing here) 600 hours a year and a command at 3000hours. Between 3 and 5 years realistically. However, as I said before, in 5 years from now will there be any growth left in Ryanair? Not based on current orders!
I enjoyed many years at Ryanair but have enjoyed fresher pastures and a kinder management style for the last couple of years elsewhere, but still have many reasonably happy friends there.
I enjoyed many years at Ryanair but have enjoyed fresher pastures and a kinder management style for the last couple of years elsewhere, but still have many reasonably happy friends there.
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Jay might be missing a trick here. When you fly, it matters not who for or how many pax or how far etc. You fly for yourself, you fly to be better everyday and search for the perfect flight. You pit your wits against the elements, the variables and contollables and you strive to master them. Whether you fly a Tornado, Cessna or airliner it's all the same. I liken it to yacht racing, anyone can go from A to B following the GPS but who can do it faster more accurately using less provisions and make it look easy. Yes I am very competitive, against myself, working well within the SOPs at all times but enjoying doing the job in my own style and making sure the pax enjoy a safe, smooth and effeicient ride at all times. Can anyone do that, no only those pilots who enjoy the challenge. Therefore it matters not where or what you fly as long as you enjoy it keep a sense of humour and never accept your second best.
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Cloud Pilot so you’re saying if you want to build 3000 hours quick Ryanair is the best place? It seems like eventually they HAVE TO give you command as there are not enough experienced Captains at Ryanair?
In my last airline- I think you nailed it on the head. Different people have different preferences when it comes to flying. Some airline pilots may not want to fly a Tornado across the Atlantic at Mach 2 as they may feel air sick? Military flying is not for everyone. Personally I would much rather fly straight and level in the day and upside down at the weekends!
In my last airline- I think you nailed it on the head. Different people have different preferences when it comes to flying. Some airline pilots may not want to fly a Tornado across the Atlantic at Mach 2 as they may feel air sick? Military flying is not for everyone. Personally I would much rather fly straight and level in the day and upside down at the weekends
!
!
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captdivs, I am confused if I was you I would set my sights a little higher, why not aim for BA, Emirates or Cathay. And if you end up at Ryan then so be it, Im worried that if you aspire for Ryan and miss, you could end up flying rubber dog sh*t out of Southend for years.
Aim high my boy, aim high.
Aim high my boy, aim high.
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DooblerChina
Of course i will set my heights higher- but i don't want to put all my eggs in one basket like many other wanabees.. you have to be realistic but ideally i would like to fly long haul for BA( like many pilots) did you get stuck in the ****ter in your early years as a pilot dooblerChina?
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1. Don't bother with uni - complete waste of time if you're going to fly..
2. Learn correct grammer. Use of less compared to fewer for example. (That one is my pet hate)
3. Don't prostitute yourself at Ryanair. It's the bl00dy whorehouse of aviation. Paying for training, uniform, recurrent sim etc is undermining our profession - don't join the bloodsuckers!!
All that said - good luck
2. Learn correct grammer. Use of less compared to fewer for example. (That one is my pet hate)
3. Don't prostitute yourself at Ryanair. It's the bl00dy whorehouse of aviation. Paying for training, uniform, recurrent sim etc is undermining our profession - don't join the bloodsuckers!!
All that said - good luck
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White knight
''1. Don't bother with uni - complete waste of time if you're going to fly..''
White Knight don't you think that is a bit of a vague statement. Of course university is not a waste of time, it matures you and teaches you priceless new skills. Plus a degree is always a good back up plan- anyone agree?
Regards.
White Knight don't you think that is a bit of a vague statement. Of course university is not a waste of time, it matures you and teaches you priceless new skills. Plus a degree is always a good back up plan- anyone agree?
Regards.
Btw what course are you doing in University?
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If you are certain you want to be a pilot for a living and are going to demonstrate that by paying £60000 + for your training then YES a degree is completely and utterly pointless. It is anyway, unless you want to be an engineer or a doctor etc. I know that when I decided to pay all of my money for training ACTUALLY becoming an airline pilot was the ONLY option. Forget the degree. If you want to get life skills before hand, join the military.
No, you sound like the Labour government......and it's once YOU'RE fully trained not your. I am not trying to be an ar*ehole but that is not acceptable.
Of course university is not a waste of time, it matures you and teaches you priceless new skills.
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If you, or your father, can afford both a university education PLUS a CPL/ATPL course, then you're a very fortunate young man.
For mere mortals, one or the other would be adequate. If you want to fly, really want to fly, then do it now, not in 2012. Either enrol in a school tomorrow or try the RAF.
If you want an University education, wait either until you need one due to redundancy or do what I did and wait until you're 45 and use the Open University! Although an adequately graded pass in Physics is merely something to hang on the wall rather than any practical use!
For mere mortals, one or the other would be adequate. If you want to fly, really want to fly, then do it now, not in 2012. Either enrol in a school tomorrow or try the RAF.
If you want an University education, wait either until you need one due to redundancy or do what I did and wait until you're 45 and use the Open University! Although an adequately graded pass in Physics is merely something to hang on the wall rather than any practical use!
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Few univeristies like Kingston actually gives training on PPL and ATPL + some engineering knowledge. I'm not exactly sure but you can find details on thier website. So it's not exactly like you go to university, get a degree in something else and then do you pilot training later. However, there aren't much univerisities that do pilot training, most of them that do tend to emphasise more towards engineering than the training.
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Those degrees are pointless as well, if you want to be a pilot then do your training. Those degrees say to me that somebody can't make up their mind. Pick a route and stick with it whether it is being a pilot or not. Don't try and use some hybrid way of satisfying your dreams and your fears as a way in. It is weak and and a waste. Just decide.
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TheBeak
are you off your rocker?
who cares if its your or you're or blah blah,,, you dont need 100% grammer as a pilot, would be nice as i (sorry I) cant spell for sh*% or use correct grammer, thats what MS Word is for when sending an important letter, as for when flying i always say the same, when the wings are on fire and your decending like a love sick bird in think soup ATC dont need you to spell MAY DAY! they know what you mean!
if grammer is what you want go be an english teacher.
are you off your rocker?
who cares if its your or you're or blah blah,,, you dont need 100% grammer as a pilot, would be nice as i (sorry I) cant spell for sh*% or use correct grammer, thats what MS Word is for when sending an important letter, as for when flying i always say the same, when the wings are on fire and your decending like a love sick bird in think soup ATC dont need you to spell MAY DAY! they know what you mean!
if grammer is what you want go be an english teacher.