What is (was, will be) your command upgrade bond?
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,427
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From: Correr es mi destino por no llevar papel
Thank you people, your posts confirmed my suspicion that my illustrious MGT's is being economical with the truth when claiming that this type of bonding is nowadays widely spread and accepted.
And now to some fan mail.
Europe. Yes, there are countries in Europe that don't comply with the second world standards.
We're state owned, have the same name as the country and the supervisory board is a bunch of pollitically selected... individuals, who were unable to guess the exact number of aeroplanes in the fleet, when asked by local economics weekly (it was eleven). I guess I'm sure.
True. However, I'm not sure it's applicable to my situation: 8 years with the company, 4000TT. Unable to move elsewhere due to passport, which makes some overzealous visa officials ask straight faced: "Sir, have you ever commited a war crime or know someone who did?"
We're renewing the fleet so training is included in the price of the new aeroplanes. I don't think that manufacturer gives price breakdown that would show how much pilots' trainning actually costs. And my company doesn't call it "bond". The term used is "contractual penalty".
My union's lawyer suggested me to sign the contract now and complain later. The union board basically said that we're on our own and it won't interfere. They felt offended when I labeled them as corrupt.
I've used the term advisedly, having Marlon Brando in mind. It wasn't an offer, it was a directive. Despite me telling the head of training that terms of contract are grossly unfair and that I won't sign it, my wife was informed by the telephone that her husband's training starts in a month. My cellphone was switched off because I was flying at the time. Also my name didn't appear on 6-months OPC roster. Currently it seems that MGT counts on giving me the trainning now and forcing me into signing the contract later.
We have abolished seniority 2 years ago. What little has been left of collective agreement is constantly being trampled by MGT and my fellow pilots have taken the stance: "We're doing fine, they haven't started beating us yet."
And now to some fan mail.
Where is this third world outfit?
Are you sure it's a "flag" carrier ?
To be fair, if the employer forks out and then the new Cpt does a bunk to another airline then its a bit unfair on the company, especially if its an early Command.
Generally speaking, an employer is not legally allowed to bond for more than the actual cost of what they're offering you
I'd suggest also that the 5 years and non-reducing bond in the circumstances are also a dodgy ask legally. You need to talk to a pilot union or a local employment lawyer to check
You call that an offer you can't refuse!
If you have a contract and seniority for uprgradings and the bond is not in the contract there should not be any.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 272
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From: Ireland
Yuck - management sucks, the union sucks, and you're on your own. You can't sort out management, and the union wimping out leaves you without the ability to face it collectively. Actually, manufacturers costings based on contracted training credits can be far worse than your local TRTO who have to compete with others. "How much are my training credits worth?" can easily generate an inflated answer.
The only solution seems to be to stop paying your union fees and use the money saved to pay a solicitor who knows local and EU employment law to advise, being in the EU could make a big difference. Or/and you could try contacting IFALPA individually, as they could have some European law having lobbied on behalf of other EU ALPAs, or possible legal precedents from other unfortunates in other EU countries. It's not just the amount, the time period and non-reducing "contractual penalty" are all worth running by a solicitor who knows employment law.
Good luck.
The only solution seems to be to stop paying your union fees and use the money saved to pay a solicitor who knows local and EU employment law to advise, being in the EU could make a big difference. Or/and you could try contacting IFALPA individually, as they could have some European law having lobbied on behalf of other EU ALPAs, or possible legal precedents from other unfortunates in other EU countries. It's not just the amount, the time period and non-reducing "contractual penalty" are all worth running by a solicitor who knows employment law.
Good luck.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 96
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From: Sandpit
"Currently it seems that MGT counts on giving me the trainning now and forcing me into signing the contract later."
Well, start learning and screw them later
By that time you will have 2 ratings on your licence and if they won't let you fly ... with 4000 TT you will get something.
Well, start learning and screw them later
By that time you will have 2 ratings on your licence and if they won't let you fly ... with 4000 TT you will get something.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,427
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From: Correr es mi destino por no llevar papel
being in the EU could make a big difference
once/if you move company (and country), how would they be able to collect, that is the real and only question...
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 206
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From: DSOTM
Clandestino, I guess you're being thoroughly shafted up the !!!!ter, so to speak. Whatever did happen with your employment or contract? My fleet chief went to ZGB several times to do some low-visibility training/certification i believe for the Q400 a while back and he told me he had a really nice impression of the outfit.
I am aware that Croats are just a *tad* nationalistic. Are you sure everyone gets a bond like that when they get an upgrade? Because surely that must be illegal if that is not the case.
Really curious what happened to your situation or maybe even more information about the airline.
I am aware that Croats are just a *tad* nationalistic. Are you sure everyone gets a bond like that when they get an upgrade? Because surely that must be illegal if that is not the case.
Really curious what happened to your situation or maybe even more information about the airline.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,427
Likes: 5
From: Correr es mi destino por no llevar papel
I'm sorry, but IAW local laws and some pieces of paper I've signed, I can not either confirm or deny I was referring to Croatia.
There were some good cop - bad cop games and after a bit of friendly persuasion, I signed. Currently I have completed 2 sim sessions and there are 8 to go. Good news is it isn't 32 K€ bond, it's mere 28500. Phew!
Starting last year, yes. Five year upgrade bond was common practice in my company, but until last year it was reducing every month and starting amount was smaller, although one couldn't reallistically repay it until it was brought down to appx 30%. A year ago we've started phasing out certain franco-italian turboprop and pilots forced into changing type, but keeping their seat, would get three year bond, F/Os upgrading would get five year bond. Also bonding one's employees for training provided by the company is widespread practice in our beautiful homeland, with no set limits to amount or length of the bond.
There were some good cop - bad cop games and after a bit of friendly persuasion, I signed. Currently I have completed 2 sim sessions and there are 8 to go. Good news is it isn't 32 K€ bond, it's mere 28500. Phew!
Are you sure everyone gets a bond like that when they get an upgrade?
