Aer Lingus to open US base with locally recruited crews
How can three aircraft be required ? Washington to Madrid, even if daily, is not going to require more than one.
And how can Aer Lingus hope to achieve anything commercially in two markets, Washington and Madrid, where it is a newcomer in the first and has never done anything other than a small amount of European business to Dublin at the second ? Even Air France, well-established in both London and Los Angeles, had a complete commercial fiasco with their service between the two and had to give up ?
And how can Aer Lingus hope to achieve anything commercially in two markets, Washington and Madrid, where it is a newcomer in the first and has never done anything other than a small amount of European business to Dublin at the second ? Even Air France, well-established in both London and Los Angeles, had a complete commercial fiasco with their service between the two and had to give up ?
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Gentlemen, you all must understand that this is not about Aer Lingus or UAL making money on the IAD/MAD route. Open Skies is not about competition or free consumer choice. It is about driving labor to the lowest common denominator..
Thus, the proposed route is not slated to operate with either Aer Lingus or UA staffing. My guess is that the pay will be substandard, by alot, and thus will attract minimally qualified crew with draconian working conditions. Multi crew licensing anyone?
Yes, the guise of open skies across the Atlantic was supposed to be competition for consumer value...What the consumer really is going to get is the lowest common denominator in flight crew staffing..
Again, open skies is a vehicle to destroy organized labor and bring labor costs to the lowest possible.
At least now, pilots on both sides of the pond are figuring it out..
Now, what are they going to do about it??
Cheers!
Thus, the proposed route is not slated to operate with either Aer Lingus or UA staffing. My guess is that the pay will be substandard, by alot, and thus will attract minimally qualified crew with draconian working conditions. Multi crew licensing anyone?
Yes, the guise of open skies across the Atlantic was supposed to be competition for consumer value...What the consumer really is going to get is the lowest common denominator in flight crew staffing..
Again, open skies is a vehicle to destroy organized labor and bring labor costs to the lowest possible.
At least now, pilots on both sides of the pond are figuring it out..
Now, what are they going to do about it??
Cheers!
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It is a means for UA to offer a IAD-MAD service at a significantly lower development and operating costs then doing it on its own.
It will be up to UA to funnel and disburse pax in and out of IAD. It will be up to UA to fill the seats.
As for Aer Lingus, this seems like a desperate (but perhaps shrewed) move to fend of a certain "gentleman" from FR
A very unusual move indeed!
It will be up to UA to funnel and disburse pax in and out of IAD. It will be up to UA to fill the seats.
As for Aer Lingus, this seems like a desperate (but perhaps shrewed) move to fend of a certain "gentleman" from FR
A very unusual move indeed!
Rebel PPRuNer
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I wonder if Mannion has "negotiated" a large break fee with UA so that if MOL took over and tried to kill the UA link he'd have to pay a whack of money to UA - a relatively small but annoying poison pill if you will.
Mannion is rather fond of large termination fees on takeover
Mannion is rather fond of large termination fees on takeover
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Gentlemen, you all must understand that this is not about Aer Lingus or UAL making money on the IAD/MAD route. Open Skies is not about competition or free consumer choice. It is about driving labor to the lowest common denominator.
However, reduction in labour costs is clearly not an aim of the treaty, largely as flight crews remain tied to carriers within the USA / EU respectively.
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The only thing this venture is going to do is sap up a lot of EI cash.
Mannion is not exactly know for his excellence of thinking up ideas for generating income is his? More a slash and burn man.
Mannion is not exactly know for his excellence of thinking up ideas for generating income is his? More a slash and burn man.
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Utter rubbish. Openskies is designed to permit greater consumer choice, and allow move flights to more destinations than has ever previously been possible.
However, reduction in labour costs is clearly not an aim of the treaty, largely as flight crews remain tied to carriers within the USA / EU respectively.
You must work for one of the two carriers.
If this was not about destroying labor, then why would they need a new, separate, pilot group?
However, reduction in labour costs is clearly not an aim of the treaty, largely as flight crews remain tied to carriers within the USA / EU respectively.
You must work for one of the two carriers.
If this was not about destroying labor, then why would they need a new, separate, pilot group?
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If It Ain't Broke, Let's Try And Fix It Anyway . . .
A friend of mine spoke with a recruiter for Cathay Pacific at a job fair in Los Angeles a few months ago and that airline was doing the same thing.
It is apparently related to lodging costs and the desire to reduce those costs.
The bean counters feel that, in the long run, it would be cheaper for the airline to use ONE hotel at its "hub" city (In Cathay Pacific's case, that obviously would be Hong Kong; in Aer Lingus' case, that would be Dublin) for the layovers of crews who would be based at a wide range of outlying foreign cities, instead of the present arrangement where the crews are based at the "hub" city and lay over at a wide range of foreign "spoke" cities.
It sounds goofy and would probably be a logistical nightmare. In the case of Cathay Pacific, would that mean that a LAX based flight attendant or pilot would only be limited to working the LAX-HKG-LAX run? If those employees were used on any other route, the cost-savings of this proposal would be defeated. The airline would have to cover lodging costs at both HKG and whatever outlying city they would be going to.
When all is said and done, I wonder if they'll save all that much money?
ONTPax
It is apparently related to lodging costs and the desire to reduce those costs.
The bean counters feel that, in the long run, it would be cheaper for the airline to use ONE hotel at its "hub" city (In Cathay Pacific's case, that obviously would be Hong Kong; in Aer Lingus' case, that would be Dublin) for the layovers of crews who would be based at a wide range of outlying foreign cities, instead of the present arrangement where the crews are based at the "hub" city and lay over at a wide range of foreign "spoke" cities.
It sounds goofy and would probably be a logistical nightmare. In the case of Cathay Pacific, would that mean that a LAX based flight attendant or pilot would only be limited to working the LAX-HKG-LAX run? If those employees were used on any other route, the cost-savings of this proposal would be defeated. The airline would have to cover lodging costs at both HKG and whatever outlying city they would be going to.
When all is said and done, I wonder if they'll save all that much money?
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Right Reheat.... And how is that Open Skies staffing working out for the BA pilots?
I noticed scarcasm, but certainly not a successful attempt at irony.
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Wouldn't mind returning to the West.
See that AL are advertising internally for A330 positions in Washington
Assuming that there will be terrible CoS for those guys and that they'll have to pay for a 330 type rating themselves .
Is it likely then with little or no internal uptake that the positions will be advertised publicly or do United get the next snap at the apple?
I suppose the Irish pilot's union are opposed to it.
V
See that AL are advertising internally for A330 positions in Washington
Assuming that there will be terrible CoS for those guys and that they'll have to pay for a 330 type rating themselves .
Is it likely then with little or no internal uptake that the positions will be advertised publicly or do United get the next snap at the apple?
I suppose the Irish pilot's union are opposed to it.
V
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Another nail in the Aerlingus coffin. Again they amaze me with the way money is thrown at ridiculous ventures.
When I first read this post I couldn't believe that this was happening.
Pity MOL hasn't got more of a hand involved! I would love to see the genius it shake up!
When I first read this post I couldn't believe that this was happening.
Pity MOL hasn't got more of a hand involved! I would love to see the genius it shake up!
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Bean counters and hub hotel
it would be cheaper for the airline to use ONE hotel at its "hub" city
only be limited to working the LAX-HKG-LAX run?
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Dublin sinking
You do not have to be Albert Einstein to see that Aer Lingus will have problems surviving in this new tough market. The figures from Dublin Airport speaks for it self. I cannot understand why pilots always fail to see the thruth until it is to late.
I think that the only way to survive is to make up with MOL. Look at RYR last profit. But maybe the pilots in RYR works more and complains less
Good luck to all involved
Teddy
I think that the only way to survive is to make up with MOL. Look at RYR last profit. But maybe the pilots in RYR works more and complains less
Good luck to all involved
Teddy
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This low-wage crewing plan reminds me of all our 'wonderful' regionals where the FO makes much less than a living wage and must have a second job and endure a thousand-mile commute to a place s/he can sleep for cheap. I'd much rather have both drivers well-fed and free to worry about aviating. Let's hope the FAA study makes that happen.