Paying for flight training without a confirmed date
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: California
Age: 62
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paying for flight training without a confirmed date
I'm leaving the continent around Nov 8-ish for an extended stay, and wanted to complete a type rating before I go. So, I started a correspondence with a company that offers the training that I want. I also filled out their contract, which is big on getting money, but offers virtually nothing in the way of guaranteeing any performance, or even some very basic stuff, like specifying when the training is.
Since I'll be leaving, whatever I do needs to be complete before I leave. It can't be delayed for any reason, or it has no value to me if I can't complete it.
Here's the notes; let me know what y'all think.
Tony
***********note I got************
We are ready to go! We have 2 instructira that can complete your training between the 2 and 7th [Nov2008]!
The next step is to send in your registration and pay the $5000 and we will get you started on your online training. Of you could do that before the end of business today, that would help. Our OPS girl is going on vacation until Tuesday and she is the one that will set up your online learning!
Thanks!
**********************************
I did fill out a registration already (for type certificate training). And I have specified what I want in terms of results. I need you to specify the who, what, why, when and where before I pay the big bucks.
I'll give you a call Monday, or you can call me Monday morning: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Thanks,
me
******the reply********
We have a limited window of time to get you ready for training (FAA Online Required Hours) and that window is getting smaller! We have instructors ready to go on the dates you specified. They can accomplish your training between the 2-7th of November, and you will be done in time to leave.
I have completed my side of the bargain, now we just need you to send your registration and payment so we can get you started! We will not confirm any class date until we receive payment. That is our policy, and it is non-negotiable.
Since I'll be leaving, whatever I do needs to be complete before I leave. It can't be delayed for any reason, or it has no value to me if I can't complete it.
Here's the notes; let me know what y'all think.
Tony
***********note I got************
We are ready to go! We have 2 instructira that can complete your training between the 2 and 7th [Nov2008]!
The next step is to send in your registration and pay the $5000 and we will get you started on your online training. Of you could do that before the end of business today, that would help. Our OPS girl is going on vacation until Tuesday and she is the one that will set up your online learning!
Thanks!
**********************************
I did fill out a registration already (for type certificate training). And I have specified what I want in terms of results. I need you to specify the who, what, why, when and where before I pay the big bucks.
I'll give you a call Monday, or you can call me Monday morning: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Thanks,
me
******the reply********
We have a limited window of time to get you ready for training (FAA Online Required Hours) and that window is getting smaller! We have instructors ready to go on the dates you specified. They can accomplish your training between the 2-7th of November, and you will be done in time to leave.
I have completed my side of the bargain, now we just need you to send your registration and payment so we can get you started! We will not confirm any class date until we receive payment. That is our policy, and it is non-negotiable.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: California
Age: 62
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Naturally, one of the issues is that their training is significantly cheaper than the competition. So, yes, I agree that the easy answer is move on, I do want to at least play this out to check mate.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tony,
That sounds very suspect. The communication is nothing like what should should be expected from a company offering a type rating.
Which country is this facility located in ?
That sounds very suspect. The communication is nothing like what should should be expected from a company offering a type rating.
Which country is this facility located in ?
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 627
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you need a good training facility in TX for a Boeing Rating I can get you the details and you can rest assured that the outcome is good and the price is a fair value. I know both owners since 10 years and they are liable and honest. I refered 5 Pilots to them and all came back with the Rating in the pocket after the set time. No delays and no hassle.
Pay for a set course date until 10 days before starting date. Or jump into a last minute slot. I agree that a lot of Pilots do not show up for the starting date without telling the School that do not take the slot. A simple E-mail would do it and state that you are unable to attend. Do that in time and everyone is benefitting from that. Strikt policies came in place as too many schools are waiting for the Student to show up.......... They paid a price before and now the "protection mode is on". Too many Students paid money for nothing else then books and the "protection mode is on" as well. Find a secure way in between for both sides.
The cheapest is not always cheap enough at the end. Is your accomodation includet in $ 5.000.-- or is it on top....
Fly safe and land happy
NG
Pay for a set course date until 10 days before starting date. Or jump into a last minute slot. I agree that a lot of Pilots do not show up for the starting date without telling the School that do not take the slot. A simple E-mail would do it and state that you are unable to attend. Do that in time and everyone is benefitting from that. Strikt policies came in place as too many schools are waiting for the Student to show up.......... They paid a price before and now the "protection mode is on". Too many Students paid money for nothing else then books and the "protection mode is on" as well. Find a secure way in between for both sides.
The cheapest is not always cheap enough at the end. Is your accomodation includet in $ 5.000.-- or is it on top....
Fly safe and land happy
NG
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: California
Age: 62
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I never suggested a guaranteed pass. Obviously, they have no control over my ability to pass a course.
But, they do have the ability to schedule the course. I do not have the luxury of taking this course "whenever". The time I have alloted is just that.
Should I agree to an open ended date, I risk the very real chance of them scheduling when I'm in a far away place. The only thing I really want is exactly what the email says. Training in the sim will be from Nov 2 to the 7th. Simple. Write it in the contract.
And tell me where the sim is. Sounds simple. What the course is supposed to accomplish (training for a CL-65 type and ATP). Not earth shattering stuff.
If they change it to some other time, I want my money back, 'cuz I'm not available. And I won't be around to fight them, either.
Here's what I imagine. Even if they write it in a contract, at the last minute saying, "oh, the sim is broken, our guys are sick, blah, blah, so we'll just reschedule you for next week". That won't work, and they've got my money. And if I don't have it in the contract that we agreed when the training is, I'm screwed. Money gone. No type rating.
If they're worried about cancellation, put in a clause about that. Heck, I'd agree to that. But they haven't asked for that. Just pay first, then, "we'll let cha know".
I guess I'm getting a call in the morning, so we'll see if we can get past this basic stuff.
But, they do have the ability to schedule the course. I do not have the luxury of taking this course "whenever". The time I have alloted is just that.
Should I agree to an open ended date, I risk the very real chance of them scheduling when I'm in a far away place. The only thing I really want is exactly what the email says. Training in the sim will be from Nov 2 to the 7th. Simple. Write it in the contract.
And tell me where the sim is. Sounds simple. What the course is supposed to accomplish (training for a CL-65 type and ATP). Not earth shattering stuff.
If they change it to some other time, I want my money back, 'cuz I'm not available. And I won't be around to fight them, either.
Here's what I imagine. Even if they write it in a contract, at the last minute saying, "oh, the sim is broken, our guys are sick, blah, blah, so we'll just reschedule you for next week". That won't work, and they've got my money. And if I don't have it in the contract that we agreed when the training is, I'm screwed. Money gone. No type rating.
If they're worried about cancellation, put in a clause about that. Heck, I'd agree to that. But they haven't asked for that. Just pay first, then, "we'll let cha know".
I guess I'm getting a call in the morning, so we'll see if we can get past this basic stuff.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: California
Age: 62
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
5000 quid for a type rating looks dangerously cheap...
I already have the CL-65 "SIC" type... this course will remove the SIC limitation, so the actual training is shortened significantly from a initial course.
But, I have seen full blown B737 courses that cheap.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The desert...
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I already have the CL-65 "SIC" type... this course will remove the SIC limitation, so the actual training is shortened significantly from a initial course.
I hope it works out good for you and they give you exactly what you're looking for.
Let us know, would you?
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tony,
Read your additional posted comments..
what raises my hackles is...
"I have completed my side of the bargain"
and
"We will not confirm any class date until we receive payment. That is our policy, and it is non-negotiable"
Asking, who, when, where, what is only a fair question, if these cannot be answered then there is little interest in actually providing a service.
If dates are being filled and this outfit is in demand then these questions will be known. If not, then there has to be some degree of question as to the authenticity of what is being entered into.
If they cannot provide basic information then either move on, or take the gamble. you could of course always shove the funds into escrow.
Read your additional posted comments..
what raises my hackles is...
"I have completed my side of the bargain"
and
"We will not confirm any class date until we receive payment. That is our policy, and it is non-negotiable"
Asking, who, when, where, what is only a fair question, if these cannot be answered then there is little interest in actually providing a service.
If dates are being filled and this outfit is in demand then these questions will be known. If not, then there has to be some degree of question as to the authenticity of what is being entered into.
If they cannot provide basic information then either move on, or take the gamble. you could of course always shove the funds into escrow.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: All over the place
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tony, I have to say this sounds very like a company that NEEDS the money !! This cannot be good for you getting what you paid for in advance !! With the current economic slow down having quite an effect on self sponsored type rating candidates available, you need to watch your back.
When you are ready there will ALWAYS be someone willing to offer the training, dont let yourself be pushed.
Remember Caveat Emptor
Good luck
Mondeoman
When you are ready there will ALWAYS be someone willing to offer the training, dont let yourself be pushed.
Remember Caveat Emptor
Good luck
Mondeoman
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids
Age: 49
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I owned a flight school for awhile, and I was always willing to negotiate. I am deeply suspicious of anyone who is not. Of course, if you want more out of them, you should be prepared to pay more. Any competent training organization should be able to provide you with a syllabus with dates and instructor names and classroom locations, as a matter of course. I did that regularly with a very small organization.
I would run away screaming, personally.
I would run away screaming, personally.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: California
Age: 62
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I seriously thought about it, trying to find a middle ground. But, I could find none.
I sent an email telling them I won't be using their services.
I sent an email telling them I won't be using their services.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: California
Age: 62
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if you want more out of them, you should be prepared to pay more. Any competent training organization should be able to provide you with a syllabus with dates and instructor names and classroom locations, as a matter of course. I did that regularly with a very small organization. I would run away screaming, personally.
Fortunately, I don't need the training, and I may have a lead on company sponsored training.
