VA - no more pilot group, we want pilots and CC together
Join Date: Jul 2005
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This from:
Interesting:
Hmmmmm?
ring any bells?
Not my quote, simply passing it along but as piloting falls into a recognised professional group though it might be worth posting :-)
Australian Council of Professions
'A disciplined group of individuals who adhere to high ethical standards and uphold themselves to, and are accepted by, the public as possessing special knowledge and skills in a widely recognised, organised body of learning derived from education and training at a high level, and who are prepared to exercise this knowledge and these skills in the interest of others.
Inherent in this definition is the concept that the responsibility for the welfare, health and safety of the community shall take precedence over other considerations.'
Inherent in this definition is the concept that the responsibility for the welfare, health and safety of the community shall take precedence over other considerations.'
possessing special knowledge and skills in a widely recognised, organised body of learning derived from education and training at a high level
Not my quote, simply passing it along but as piloting falls into a recognised professional group though it might be worth posting :-)
Join Date: May 2008
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"and who are prepared to exercise this knowledge and these skills in the interest of others."
Probably where your argument falls down, a more self-interested bunch than pilots would be hard to find, even within their own ranks.
Probably where your argument falls down, a more self-interested bunch than pilots would be hard to find, even within their own ranks.
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It's a bit ironic then, that our 'self interest' revolves around getting the entire aircraft, crew and passengers safely from A to B expeditiously often in less than ideal weathers and, in some cases, circumstances. I don't generally wish to go to many of the places I fly to, same as a surgeon probably doesn't want to do yet another breast op or a dentist is fed up of filling teeth. But it still gets done.
Do I want to protect the terms and conditions I have worked so hard over the years to achieve? Yes. Do I want to allow another 'department' within a company to have a majority vote over my future, benefits and working conditions? Ones that many from this thread have made patently clear, have no interest in what pilots actually do and just demean their efforts without giving concrete facts, examples or reasons for such a deal? Nope.
CC and pilots will be moaning about each other until long after we are all dead and buried. God forbid that CC ever have a voting right over my terms and conditions.
Do I want to protect the terms and conditions I have worked so hard over the years to achieve? Yes. Do I want to allow another 'department' within a company to have a majority vote over my future, benefits and working conditions? Ones that many from this thread have made patently clear, have no interest in what pilots actually do and just demean their efforts without giving concrete facts, examples or reasons for such a deal? Nope.
CC and pilots will be moaning about each other until long after we are all dead and buried. God forbid that CC ever have a voting right over my terms and conditions.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Wasn't there a high court decision on this very topic about the working conditions of pilots being so unique ,the Court deemed pilot's conditions to be SUI GENERIS>
Legal applications
In law, it is a term of art used to identify a legal classification that exists independently of other categorizations because of its uniqueness or due to the specific creation of an entitlement or obligation. Courts have used the term in describing cooperative apartment corporations, mostly because this form of housing is considered real property for some purposes and personal property for other purposes. In intellectual property there are rights which are known as being sui generis to owners of a small class of works, such as intellectual property rights in mask works, ship hull designs, databases, or plant varieties. When referring to case citations and authorities, lawyers (and Judges) may refer to an authority cited as being 'sui generis', meaning in that context, it is one confined (or special) to its own facts, and therefore may not be of broader application. This is also the modern view that courts are holding when deciding judgments based on Oil and Gas leases.
Why are these clowns in HR even going down this path????
Legal applications
In law, it is a term of art used to identify a legal classification that exists independently of other categorizations because of its uniqueness or due to the specific creation of an entitlement or obligation. Courts have used the term in describing cooperative apartment corporations, mostly because this form of housing is considered real property for some purposes and personal property for other purposes. In intellectual property there are rights which are known as being sui generis to owners of a small class of works, such as intellectual property rights in mask works, ship hull designs, databases, or plant varieties. When referring to case citations and authorities, lawyers (and Judges) may refer to an authority cited as being 'sui generis', meaning in that context, it is one confined (or special) to its own facts, and therefore may not be of broader application. This is also the modern view that courts are holding when deciding judgments based on Oil and Gas leases.
Why are these clowns in HR even going down this path????
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johnny767 you are well overdue a course in crm. in the company i work for, pilots and cabin crew are in the same union. however we each negotiate our own terms and conditions and i must say, to date, the cabin crew union section have being doing a much better job. we are treated with respect and courtesy by our pilots and as a result the inflight dymamic works extremely well. cabin crew appreciate that you have trained long and expensively to achieve your flight crew position. we are aware that you have much responsiblity for the lives of pax and crew. you on the otherhand, seem to have 0 awareness of how cabin crew contribute to the safety of a flight for everyone. we respect your role and would like you to equally respect ours.
Sadly there is too much Willy waving going on in this thread and it has gone completely off topic.
The intolerance and arrogance demonstrated by both parties shows why the company would want you all to join together.
You lot wouldn't be able to organise a p*ss up in a brewery, as you would be argueing about who is first to be served, who can drink the most and who should be the designated driver.
Very purile...and that is very rich comming from me.
Divided we stand...divided we fall...
The intolerance and arrogance demonstrated by both parties shows why the company would want you all to join together.
You lot wouldn't be able to organise a p*ss up in a brewery, as you would be argueing about who is first to be served, who can drink the most and who should be the designated driver.
Very purile...and that is very rich comming from me.
Divided we stand...divided we fall...
