Pilots in China forced to pay employers
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Pilots in China forced to pay employers
Picked up this bit of news!!
In China, Pilots Fined For Quitting
In China, if quit your job as an airline pilot, you could end up owing your former employer more than $102,000. China's carriers are struggling to hold onto their crews as demand for air travel creates opportunities for pilots worldwide. Now, Air China, China Eastern Airlines and China Southern Airlines, China's largest carriers, have taken to enforcing lifetime crew contracts. And a Chinese government regulation issued in May of 2006 designed to prevent bidding wars for experienced pilots penalizes those pilots who seek opportunity abroad by allowing airlines to demand compensation for lost staff. "Everyone should follow the rules," Chen Feng, chairman of Grand China Air, told Bloomberg news. "If someone insists on leaving, he should pay the price." The situation has drawn attention from the International Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations, which views the practice as unrelated to reality and almost like slavery. Pilots in China have begun their own work condition protests -- in March and April, crews turned around 21 flights mid-route. Others have staged hunger strikes.
As high demand in China for a limited supply of pilots continues to push salaries higher, Chen Jianguo, who is fighting his case in the courts, says, "No matter how much I earn, I should have the basic right to quit or give up the earnings." For now, the government and the Chinese airlines are trying to make sure he, and other pilots who might aspire to be like him, has the requirement to pay his former employer, as well.
In China, Pilots Fined For Quitting
In China, if quit your job as an airline pilot, you could end up owing your former employer more than $102,000. China's carriers are struggling to hold onto their crews as demand for air travel creates opportunities for pilots worldwide. Now, Air China, China Eastern Airlines and China Southern Airlines, China's largest carriers, have taken to enforcing lifetime crew contracts. And a Chinese government regulation issued in May of 2006 designed to prevent bidding wars for experienced pilots penalizes those pilots who seek opportunity abroad by allowing airlines to demand compensation for lost staff. "Everyone should follow the rules," Chen Feng, chairman of Grand China Air, told Bloomberg news. "If someone insists on leaving, he should pay the price." The situation has drawn attention from the International Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations, which views the practice as unrelated to reality and almost like slavery. Pilots in China have begun their own work condition protests -- in March and April, crews turned around 21 flights mid-route. Others have staged hunger strikes.
As high demand in China for a limited supply of pilots continues to push salaries higher, Chen Jianguo, who is fighting his case in the courts, says, "No matter how much I earn, I should have the basic right to quit or give up the earnings." For now, the government and the Chinese airlines are trying to make sure he, and other pilots who might aspire to be like him, has the requirement to pay his former employer, as well.
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Yes, well, two things I don't really understand either.
Number one: If you go to a place like China, what do you expect? To get a present? That they like you? No way - they need you for a while, and will drain as much out of you as they possibly can - then dispose of you. You really wouldn't be the first one to discover this.
Number two, and this one is not cynical: How are they going to claim it from you? Do it the nice way, and resign properly, keeping the notification-period and talking to your boss. If they let you go, then the problem is solved.
If they try to play games with you, then why don't you just get on a plane and never come back.
I don't see a problem in this.
These clauses are actually not really aimed against foreigners, but against the Chinese themselves, because Chinese airlines don't want to lose pilots to each other. Sure they'll take the money from you too, if they can.
Number one: If you go to a place like China, what do you expect? To get a present? That they like you? No way - they need you for a while, and will drain as much out of you as they possibly can - then dispose of you. You really wouldn't be the first one to discover this.
Number two, and this one is not cynical: How are they going to claim it from you? Do it the nice way, and resign properly, keeping the notification-period and talking to your boss. If they let you go, then the problem is solved.
If they try to play games with you, then why don't you just get on a plane and never come back.
I don't see a problem in this.
These clauses are actually not really aimed against foreigners, but against the Chinese themselves, because Chinese airlines don't want to lose pilots to each other. Sure they'll take the money from you too, if they can.
Last edited by Nightfire; 14th Jul 2008 at 17:27.
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Well, this sure ain't no news!
Met a couple of ex Air China pilots 3 years ago that just had to flee from China (well, they just packed up their belongings and told everyone they were off on vacations)...
Ahhh, the lure of the grand lady (747)
live 2 fly 2 live
Met a couple of ex Air China pilots 3 years ago that just had to flee from China (well, they just packed up their belongings and told everyone they were off on vacations)...
Ahhh, the lure of the grand lady (747)
live 2 fly 2 live
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please excuse my ignorance while I ask this ( as China is one of the few places I have not worked in 40 years ! ) , but is it possible to be 'sick' often enough that you finally get the bullet ( if you will pardon the analogy ) ??
On second read , I suppose we are only talking Chinese nationals here ?
On second read , I suppose we are only talking Chinese nationals here ?
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Attention: A330 CaptainsExciting Opportunities exist in China / Australia / Germany for ICAO / JAA / FAA licence holders
Ongoing screening. Please visit www.parcaviation.aero for more detailsor email [email protected] for more info
Ongoing screening. Please visit www.parcaviation.aero for more detailsor email [email protected] for more info
Noticed this banner at the top of this thread, wonder why China is the first country mentioned!!
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China is running out of pilots and only a very few of the foreign pilots are chinese speaking. Can you imagine a foreign F/O with a broken English speaking chinese CPT in an emergency situation? CRM will be not existing at all.
Chinese airlines, like so many in other Asian countries, expect you to stay with the company for your whole working life. For Chinese nationals, mobility of labour is virtually unknown. The airlines are not in the business of teaching you to fly for another company so you effectively have a lifetime bond. This works both ways, they have you for life and you have a job for life. There are also lots of invisible perks, assistance with house purchase, medical treatment for your family etc. In extremis if you lose you medical for any reason they will continue to employ you at something like 70%-80% salary until retirement and then pay you a pension. Should you not relish the thought of sitting around doing nothing for twenty-odd years then you can leave because you are not flying for another airline.
As far as T&Cs are concerned there is a level playing field because they would run out of recruits if there wasn’t. There is also an element of moonlighting. I know of one China Southern pilot who took a weeks leave, flew for another airline, pocketed RMB10,000 and then went back to work.
The same criterion does not apply to foreign pilots. You are already trained and are on fixed term contracts. The only problem starts if you try to leave before the end of your contract for the simple reason that they have had the expense of obtaining your Chinese licence plus all your company OPCs. If a company wants you to pay these costs in advance then close the door behind you.
Except for a few start-ups all the F/Os are Chinese. An English comprehension test is required for their licence and as English has been taught in all Chinese high schools for the last fifteen years the standard is quite high. This is helped by the large number of native English speaking teachers in China who teach English as opposed to Chinglish.
There is a different way of doing things in China that has been established over the last three thousand years. You cannot impose your rules so you have to accept theirs. It can be frustrating or downright bloody unfair, but you cannot change it. If you don’t think you can cope with it, don’t come.
As far as T&Cs are concerned there is a level playing field because they would run out of recruits if there wasn’t. There is also an element of moonlighting. I know of one China Southern pilot who took a weeks leave, flew for another airline, pocketed RMB10,000 and then went back to work.
The same criterion does not apply to foreign pilots. You are already trained and are on fixed term contracts. The only problem starts if you try to leave before the end of your contract for the simple reason that they have had the expense of obtaining your Chinese licence plus all your company OPCs. If a company wants you to pay these costs in advance then close the door behind you.
Except for a few start-ups all the F/Os are Chinese. An English comprehension test is required for their licence and as English has been taught in all Chinese high schools for the last fifteen years the standard is quite high. This is helped by the large number of native English speaking teachers in China who teach English as opposed to Chinglish.
There is a different way of doing things in China that has been established over the last three thousand years. You cannot impose your rules so you have to accept theirs. It can be frustrating or downright bloody unfair, but you cannot change it. If you don’t think you can cope with it, don’t come.
What do you expect from a bunch of Mugabe collaborators
Human rights mean nothing to these guys
Human rights mean nothing to these guys
The Chinese supply tactic support and finance for Mugabe not for ideological or because they like him but purely for business reasons. Just over thirty years ago there was another country that was in a ruinous social and financial state with mass illegal emigration and starvation. It was, and still is, called China. When Deng opened up China it was one the most astounding U-turns in 20th Century history. As sure as the dawn follows the night one day Zimbabwe will do the same and not necessarily with a regime change. The Chinese will then be ideally positioned to supply the expertise and investment for the new Zimbabwe.
How does one define human rights? I define it as the pursuit of happiness. To enjoy a full social life without worrying about thought police looking over your shoulder. To enjoy the privacy of your own home knowing that should an intruder come in he can be carried out with a broken neck without fear of you being sued or prosecuted. To walk down the street without being monitored by cameras any time of the day or night and not being afraid of being mugged, assaulted, insulted or have some drunk vomit over the pavement in front of you. A place where a woman has the same rights. Should the unthinkable happen she will know that in the courtroom she will not be grilled on her sexual history or be accused of wearing provocative clothing by some lawyer paid for by the State. She knows that the perpetrator will, like murderers, kidnappers, child molesters and other scum of the earth, get a bullet in the back of his head.
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they have you for life and you have a job for life.
There are also lots of invisible perks, assistance with house purchase, medical treatment for your family etc.
In extremis if you lose you medical for any reason they will continue to employ you at something like 70%-80% salary until retirement and then pay you a pension.
Except for a few start-ups all the F/Os are Chinese. An English comprehension test is required for their licence and as English has been taught in all Chinese high schools for the last fifteen years the standard is quite high. This is helped by the large number of native English speaking teachers in China who teach English as opposed to Chinglish.
But anyway, this is beside the point.
There is a different way of doing things in China that has been established over the last three thousand years. You cannot impose your rules so you have to accept theirs. It can be frustrating or downright bloody unfair, but you cannot change it. If you don’t think you can cope with it, don’t come.
Nope. If you lose your medical as an expat,
There are also lots of invisible perks, assistance with house purchase, medical treatment for your family etc.
I've seen guys getting demoted to be a First Officer prior to retirement after 17 years
Go and listen to LAX-ATC and you'll see what I mean.
there is an English-test which is not easy at all.
