easyJet to BA: how is it?
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Mrs W says she misses the 5 star hotels too. Doesn't much like having to slum it in a 4 star most of the time when we go places.
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I left the easy LGW chaos 2 years ago to join the 777 fleet with BA. Took a bit of a paycut as I had been a skipper at easy. I pick up an extra trip each month to supplement the paycheck.
Must say that my life now feels like a permanent holiday compared with easy.
Must say that my life now feels like a permanent holiday compared with easy.
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HS and Supadupa,
Just over two years ago. For my last two years I had as many long slips as I wanted, as many stand-overs as I wanted and rarely reported before midday. Admittedly I was fairly senior on the fleet by then - pages 2 and 1.
Are you telling me you don't stay in the likes of ****** in Vienna or the ***** in Rome any more?
Just over two years ago. For my last two years I had as many long slips as I wanted, as many stand-overs as I wanted and rarely reported before midday. Admittedly I was fairly senior on the fleet by then - pages 2 and 1.
Are you telling me you don't stay in the likes of ****** in Vienna or the ***** in Rome any more?
Last edited by Wingswinger; 22nd May 2008 at 07:43.
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Not withstanding the fact that I'd prefer you to delete the names of the hotels we stay(ed) in, I think the Rome one has changed, not that there was much to like about the place other than it's location. Vienna is still good, but you can offset that against the naff hotels we stayed in in LYS,NCE,BRU,ABZ or ARN. Lets also not forget that nightstops are now particularly short, with an early HEL meaning you cannot legally have a beer and any of the Milans leaving you with less than 12 hours at the hotel.
With the greatest respect, I don't think that as a former page 1/2 senior Captain you are really offering the kind of advice that the prospective EZ/BA switcher is looking for. Perhaps it was an easy life at the top of the list, picking up LCA standovers and late report midweek tours. When I left the Airbus fleet I was relatively senior but still got to 'enjoy' the early 5 day tours with 4am wake up calls and 4 sector days in between. I used to particularly enjoy the 3am wake up call in RIX on the last day to fly RIX/LHR/MUC/LHR, or latterly RIX/LHR/MAD/LHR. We don't go to RIX any more, but that was the kind of thing you'd be looking at if you weren't on page 1. I'm sure that sort of thing was a shock to you when you joined Easy, but it's standard fare for the junior BA pilot. Yes you'll get some late tours, but with a long commute to LHR you often found yourself getting home at midnight after a 5 day tour yet having to leave at 8am the next day to fly LED return. I believe that a few 5 sector days have been creeping into the bidpack recently.
In essence, the guys here want a flavour of what they'll see when they join BA, and thats not the lifestyle of a page 1 seniority Captain. If you ever flew the gruelling trips at the bottom of the list then your views would be more valid, but I think it's a bit rich to be calling BA pilots wimps when you've been creaming off the easy trips for years.
With the greatest respect, I don't think that as a former page 1/2 senior Captain you are really offering the kind of advice that the prospective EZ/BA switcher is looking for. Perhaps it was an easy life at the top of the list, picking up LCA standovers and late report midweek tours. When I left the Airbus fleet I was relatively senior but still got to 'enjoy' the early 5 day tours with 4am wake up calls and 4 sector days in between. I used to particularly enjoy the 3am wake up call in RIX on the last day to fly RIX/LHR/MUC/LHR, or latterly RIX/LHR/MAD/LHR. We don't go to RIX any more, but that was the kind of thing you'd be looking at if you weren't on page 1. I'm sure that sort of thing was a shock to you when you joined Easy, but it's standard fare for the junior BA pilot. Yes you'll get some late tours, but with a long commute to LHR you often found yourself getting home at midnight after a 5 day tour yet having to leave at 8am the next day to fly LED return. I believe that a few 5 sector days have been creeping into the bidpack recently.
In essence, the guys here want a flavour of what they'll see when they join BA, and thats not the lifestyle of a page 1 seniority Captain. If you ever flew the gruelling trips at the bottom of the list then your views would be more valid, but I think it's a bit rich to be calling BA pilots wimps when you've been creaming off the easy trips for years.
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Folks, I haven't added anything to your discussion for the same reason I started it, but I am lurking and reading and as with the others, am very grateful for all of your input! Thanks for taking the time to contribute to what is turning into quite an interesting discussion.
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HS, my dear fellow, I wasn't offering advice re the hotels in the first place. I was making a flippant comment. Hotel names duly deleted. Even the naff hotels you describe are a notch or two above the hotels which EZY uses when the need arises. And, as I'm sure you are aware, no matter how senior you are it is impossible to avoid the less attractive work totally. I didn't "cream off" easy trips for years. How could I since I was only in BA for 17 years as you could have read in my original post?
I am well aware of the nature of the early HEL (did a few over the years) and RIX (liked going there). I don't believe that they were a constant feature on lines for those with limited bidding power, were they? They were fairly well scattered up and down the TL as I recall.
I was junior once too and had to do my fair share of the unpopular work on both the 75/76 as an FO and the 'bus as a Capt. At no time did I find it as relentlessly fatiguing as life at EZY. I am talking about falling-asleep-at-the-wheel-while-driving-home fatigue. In my original post on this thread I referred to the commuting which adds significantly to fatigue. At my base (LGW), lots of young FOs live close to the airport in shared, rented accommodation. Some captains whose domicile is elswhere also rent rooms or flats. However, there are many who have a commuting drive of an hour or more (as I do). As a result, there is frequently only 9-10 hours available for rest at home between duties. Normal life is suspended during a five-day block and going to the pub is out of the question. This summer we also have the joys of 2300-0300 simulator slots to which, being a TRI/TRE, I am exposed. At least at BA there is someone else to drive you to and from hotels during your tour and you could choose to have an afternoon nap as soon as you had checked in (as I would often do on an "early" tour).
Another aspect of this is that any additional work which one needs to do has to be done in one's own time. At BA, if I had to do some ops manual study or prepare for a simulator check, my books went into my nightstop bag and I did the work in a hotel room on tour so that it wouldn't impinge upon my time at home. I would also deal with private business that way. At EZY that is not an option.
In spite of that, I enjoy EZY and I still find it a breath of fresh air after BA as do many ex-BA skippers who are here. I don't find myself bad-tempered at work now which used to be a feature of my working life at BA from time to time due to all the silly internal bickering, jealousies and the frustrations of LHR. I stand by my original comments on fatigue. Having done both BA and EZY, I think I am in the better position to pass judgement on the last aspect, don't you?
I am well aware of the nature of the early HEL (did a few over the years) and RIX (liked going there). I don't believe that they were a constant feature on lines for those with limited bidding power, were they? They were fairly well scattered up and down the TL as I recall.
I was junior once too and had to do my fair share of the unpopular work on both the 75/76 as an FO and the 'bus as a Capt. At no time did I find it as relentlessly fatiguing as life at EZY. I am talking about falling-asleep-at-the-wheel-while-driving-home fatigue. In my original post on this thread I referred to the commuting which adds significantly to fatigue. At my base (LGW), lots of young FOs live close to the airport in shared, rented accommodation. Some captains whose domicile is elswhere also rent rooms or flats. However, there are many who have a commuting drive of an hour or more (as I do). As a result, there is frequently only 9-10 hours available for rest at home between duties. Normal life is suspended during a five-day block and going to the pub is out of the question. This summer we also have the joys of 2300-0300 simulator slots to which, being a TRI/TRE, I am exposed. At least at BA there is someone else to drive you to and from hotels during your tour and you could choose to have an afternoon nap as soon as you had checked in (as I would often do on an "early" tour).
Another aspect of this is that any additional work which one needs to do has to be done in one's own time. At BA, if I had to do some ops manual study or prepare for a simulator check, my books went into my nightstop bag and I did the work in a hotel room on tour so that it wouldn't impinge upon my time at home. I would also deal with private business that way. At EZY that is not an option.
In spite of that, I enjoy EZY and I still find it a breath of fresh air after BA as do many ex-BA skippers who are here. I don't find myself bad-tempered at work now which used to be a feature of my working life at BA from time to time due to all the silly internal bickering, jealousies and the frustrations of LHR. I stand by my original comments on fatigue. Having done both BA and EZY, I think I am in the better position to pass judgement on the last aspect, don't you?
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Life at BA is what you make of it. The most frustrating thing by far, and I mean even above the operational hastles at LHR, is the interdepartmental politics. Most of which contribute a large proportion of the aforementioned aggrevation.
I've been in over a decade now, and I can't remember a time when we haven't been on the brink of war about something. That however is how the scribblies like to have things, their lives are much less interesting without constantly fighting with the staff.
Keeping that in proportion, which can be difficult I admit, you will still have a rich variety of flying in all kinds of theatres of operation. The equipment is some of the newest, and some of the oldest in the industry. I still find it interesting and engaging, and there's enough choice in the rostering system for a work life balance to be struck.
My advice, yes, come and join Aunty for all her faults. Make learning the industrial agreement your first priority so that you're nobody's fool. Be patient, seniority will ooze for the next few years, but you will have years to make it up in the future. Some of our pilots have a potential 35 year career with us. (If the industry lasts that long
). The pension is not what it was euphamistically speaking, but it is still a pension.
But the thing that makes me happiest is the huge range of people I fly with. A rich vein of experiences, talents, and warstories. With 3300 pilots, you will rarely come across the very few Jodrell bankers, and they are clearly marked if you want to swap the trip.
Snapshot perhaps, but please don't believe everything you read here about BA. Come on in and make your own mind up.We're big enough for everyone to find a niche. Some pilots come here for five minutes just to get BA on the CV, screw everything up and then poke off with wads of cash - WHOOPS! What am I saying
I've been in over a decade now, and I can't remember a time when we haven't been on the brink of war about something. That however is how the scribblies like to have things, their lives are much less interesting without constantly fighting with the staff.
Keeping that in proportion, which can be difficult I admit, you will still have a rich variety of flying in all kinds of theatres of operation. The equipment is some of the newest, and some of the oldest in the industry. I still find it interesting and engaging, and there's enough choice in the rostering system for a work life balance to be struck.
My advice, yes, come and join Aunty for all her faults. Make learning the industrial agreement your first priority so that you're nobody's fool. Be patient, seniority will ooze for the next few years, but you will have years to make it up in the future. Some of our pilots have a potential 35 year career with us. (If the industry lasts that long
). The pension is not what it was euphamistically speaking, but it is still a pension.But the thing that makes me happiest is the huge range of people I fly with. A rich vein of experiences, talents, and warstories. With 3300 pilots, you will rarely come across the very few Jodrell bankers, and they are clearly marked if you want to swap the trip.
Snapshot perhaps, but please don't believe everything you read here about BA. Come on in and make your own mind up.We're big enough for everyone to find a niche. Some pilots come here for five minutes just to get BA on the CV, screw everything up and then poke off with wads of cash - WHOOPS! What am I saying
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Made the switch not to long ago. Was at LTN on the 73 then moved to LHR on the Scarebus. . . . apart from the fact that I prefered flying the 737 I've made the right move for me.
I'm very junior on the fleet but thats changing every week with lots of new DEP's and SSP's starting.
I enjoy going on tours, its nice to see a bit of europe. As for the miserable old gits in the left hand seat. . . . I cant say I've flown with any yet, generally a good bunch of guys and will usually always go for a beer in the bar. As for the crew, if you make the effort you will get one or two out, very rarly will the entire crew come out though. Command is much further off than it was at easy but I can wait, that time will be split up by moving longhaul for a bit and having a crack at the 747 or 777!
The major problem with the company is as the seemingly low moral, as MS says there is a lot of interdepartmental bollocks going on, openskies and court cases etc.
Personally as an FO I think BA are less prescriptive that easyjet but that may be just me. The biggest shock to the system is the size of the BA machine. . . get used to just being a number (quite literally, outside the aircraft, all people are interested in is your 5 letter code and seniority!)
I havent been in anywhere near as long as HS but I've done 1 4 sector day since i've been at BA (on lone since early Jan), My roster isnt all earlys. . . infact i only do 5 or 6 a month and most nightstops I get are between 14- 18 hours. Some hotels are crap but even those are better than the ones I stayed in at easy. . . and whilst the hotel in ARN is rubbish it has free porn which makes it all OK!
For me it was a good move, but I can see why its not for everybody. I do mostly trips and my days are 1/2/3 sectors. . . LHR does have an effect on you and it becomes quite tiring but T5 has made a huge difference in my opinion. Constantly living out of a suitcase also has an effect, so i would say i work just as hard as I did at easyJet. . . . i'm certainly doing more hours each month!
ccc
I'm very junior on the fleet but thats changing every week with lots of new DEP's and SSP's starting.
I enjoy going on tours, its nice to see a bit of europe. As for the miserable old gits in the left hand seat. . . . I cant say I've flown with any yet, generally a good bunch of guys and will usually always go for a beer in the bar. As for the crew, if you make the effort you will get one or two out, very rarly will the entire crew come out though. Command is much further off than it was at easy but I can wait, that time will be split up by moving longhaul for a bit and having a crack at the 747 or 777!
The major problem with the company is as the seemingly low moral, as MS says there is a lot of interdepartmental bollocks going on, openskies and court cases etc.
Personally as an FO I think BA are less prescriptive that easyjet but that may be just me. The biggest shock to the system is the size of the BA machine. . . get used to just being a number (quite literally, outside the aircraft, all people are interested in is your 5 letter code and seniority!)
I havent been in anywhere near as long as HS but I've done 1 4 sector day since i've been at BA (on lone since early Jan), My roster isnt all earlys. . . infact i only do 5 or 6 a month and most nightstops I get are between 14- 18 hours. Some hotels are crap but even those are better than the ones I stayed in at easy. . . and whilst the hotel in ARN is rubbish it has free porn which makes it all OK!
For me it was a good move, but I can see why its not for everybody. I do mostly trips and my days are 1/2/3 sectors. . . LHR does have an effect on you and it becomes quite tiring but T5 has made a huge difference in my opinion. Constantly living out of a suitcase also has an effect, so i would say i work just as hard as I did at easyJet. . . . i'm certainly doing more hours each month!
ccc
I'm an easyjet guy who turned a 777 job down. Madness! I here you say. It was of course a tough decision which caused a few sleepless nights. So far I have not regretted it but ask me in another 5 years and you may get a different answer.
The main reason for me was age. I would have been 37 on joining BA and even with the increase in retirement age I would have spent more time in the bottom half of seniority lists than the top half. Money was of course an issue, long haul FO versus Easyjet Captain. The salary difference is significant and whilst it would gradually reduce over time and eventually become significantly more at BA it would have taken a very long time for gross earnings at BA to catch up and equal my Easyjet Command gross earnings.
If any easyjet guys are approaching command you would be surprised at the pay difference over the first 10 years. Have a look at some of the published pay scales for BA/Easy use your best guess for a BA command date and sector pay and add it all up year for year until they equal each other.
Also, factor in pension contributions over your career. The loss of the BA final salary pension was significant.
The main reason for me was age. I would have been 37 on joining BA and even with the increase in retirement age I would have spent more time in the bottom half of seniority lists than the top half. Money was of course an issue, long haul FO versus Easyjet Captain. The salary difference is significant and whilst it would gradually reduce over time and eventually become significantly more at BA it would have taken a very long time for gross earnings at BA to catch up and equal my Easyjet Command gross earnings.
If any easyjet guys are approaching command you would be surprised at the pay difference over the first 10 years. Have a look at some of the published pay scales for BA/Easy use your best guess for a BA command date and sector pay and add it all up year for year until they equal each other.
Also, factor in pension contributions over your career. The loss of the BA final salary pension was significant.
Sorry, but it's not a simple calculation and everybody will come up with a different answer depending on time to Command at Easyjet and whether they are going to take the first short haul command available at BA or live the long haul dream for xx years in the RHS. Go to http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com and have a look at the figures.
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That's bizarre airbrake. I have friends in both camps and generally those on the LH fleets in BA are earning the same or more as EZY Captains. Are you sure you got your sums right? These guys are not particularly senior either.
Other issues highlighted were the requirement in future to take commands abroad in EZY on local contracts and the bosses unstoppable desire to turn it into orange Ryanair. With demand now exceeding supply for EZY commands I suspect the contracts may take another battering.
Other issues highlighted were the requirement in future to take commands abroad in EZY on local contracts and the bosses unstoppable desire to turn it into orange Ryanair. With demand now exceeding supply for EZY commands I suspect the contracts may take another battering.
Omoko, whilst I do not want to tar all BA FOs with the same brush there does on occassion appear to be some salary inflation when speaking to individuals! Quite often you only hear about when they got drafted and were paid an extra £1300 for 3 days in the bunk if you get my drift.
Ask them directly what their basic is. Ask them what their average allowances are including months with holidays in. Also, ask them how much on average they spend on a night stop.
As a comparison take an Easyjet Captain who has been at the company 5 years.
Basic £77k
10% Bonus £7.7
Sector pay approx £10.5
Total cash £95.2k
This calculation does not account for pension/uniform allowance/ share bonus schemes/ health care and benefits of a fixed pattern roster...if it stays. Many easyjet FOs thinking of joining BA would be close to a command in a year or 2 if they stayed put. If they are under 30 I would say go straight away but once into your mid 30s it is not so clear cut.
Ask them directly what their basic is. Ask them what their average allowances are including months with holidays in. Also, ask them how much on average they spend on a night stop.
As a comparison take an Easyjet Captain who has been at the company 5 years.
Basic £77k
10% Bonus £7.7
Sector pay approx £10.5
Total cash £95.2k
This calculation does not account for pension/uniform allowance/ share bonus schemes/ health care and benefits of a fixed pattern roster...if it stays. Many easyjet FOs thinking of joining BA would be close to a command in a year or 2 if they stayed put. If they are under 30 I would say go straight away but once into your mid 30s it is not so clear cut.
Last edited by Airbrake; 24th May 2008 at 08:50.
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I used to work for an airline that did a lot of nightstops like the BA lifestlye and I got totally sick of living in a hotel away from my family trying to have a conversation with a person I didn't really want to be with. So I left and went to easyJet. Personally its the best thing I ever did. I live 10 mins aways from base and on earlies i'm usually home by midday, no traffic, no hassel, no holding, no busses from a car park Z to the office- it's bliss. And my family life is not just better it's perfect. I don't think family life truely exists in a nightstop airline. Great when your early 20's perhaps.
For me easyJet is perfect, I love the flying, I love the 'no hassel' atmosphere, I love being in bed 1 hour after arriving on stand at night and up 1 hour before report in the morning and NO M25!
Monies not the best, but i'm happy!
For me easyJet is perfect, I love the flying, I love the 'no hassel' atmosphere, I love being in bed 1 hour after arriving on stand at night and up 1 hour before report in the morning and NO M25!
Monies not the best, but i'm happy!
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Other issues highlighted were the requirement in future to take commands abroad in EZY on local contracts
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massively lucrative until the employee union body is fragmented then we'll see what comes out in the wash. Be under no illusion Easyjet is embarking on a major cost cutting spree and I would say nothing is exempt. If I were a betting man i'd say those getting the 100 or commands next year might come in for a shock. As for 92.5k..never seen anything like it in in 5 years. It's not all bad but also bear in mind there are a great many pilots in Easyjet who have never seen the outside world. Orange is not the only way but it's not the worst way either (yet).
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If you think the extra 5% from year 4 to 5 will make the difference you are sadly deluded. We shall talk again next March when, if you have 92.5k on your P60 i will gladly buy you a pint (unless you are on training increments..that would be cheating!)
The current UK command contract is most likely as good as it will ever be. It's downhill from here and unfortunately I think next year's new upgrades will face the brunt of it.
The current UK command contract is most likely as good as it will ever be. It's downhill from here and unfortunately I think next year's new upgrades will face the brunt of it.
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If you think the extra 5% from year 4 to 5 will make the difference you are sadly deluded. We shall talk again next March when, if you have 92.5k on your P60 i will gladly buy you a pint (unless you are on training increments..that would be cheating!)
The current UK command contract is most likely as good as it will ever be. It's downhill from here and unfortunately I think next year's new upgrades will face the brunt of it.
The current UK command contract is most likely as good as it will ever be. It's downhill from here and unfortunately I think next year's new upgrades will face the brunt of it.
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In reply to earlier question, bottom right hand corner is about £300 less at the moment as a 2nd year BA 777 F/O picking up an extra trip each month compared to an easy skipper 2 years ago in LGW. Pension contributions are a bit higher now since the re-jig last year.
But most importantly, I feel that unlike easy, I will be able to do this job till retirement.
But most importantly, I feel that unlike easy, I will be able to do this job till retirement.