Idiotic JAA
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Idiotic JAA
Well this post is more of a statement.....
I am a dual US/Citizen of a European Nation.
I have been looking in to converting my US ATP with multiple type ratings and several thousand hours of flight time.
The conversion process is extremely idiotic, meaningless and bureaucratic in nature, for no reason other than being difficult.
You have to sit in on 14 written test that is designed to be extremely difficult, with a very high failure rate, even after you have proven yourself as an experienced aviator....then the buffoonery is not over yet, you have to take additional check rides in an airplane to prove to the European member states you can fly an airplane.
I have no idea who came up with this rules(read the UK) for the European member states. This does NOT promote additional safety in ANY way or fashion. This only hampers and prevents any safe operations of European aerospace. Right now they hire extreme low time copilots that possess the
JAA license, but with NO experience instead of hiring the best they can from overseas or worse yet park airplanes because of pilot shortage.
I think the European aviation authorities should be ashamed of them self for this legislation and meaningless rule making.
This does not promote any additional measure of safety, other than limiting airlines in Europe from hiring the best qualified pilots they can get. After all this is a global economy. I believe if you have a work permit or citizenship in a EU or European member state, possessing a pilot license from a ICAO or FAA country it should be fairly easy to convert a commercial or ATP license.
The FAA in the USA is very accommodating and helpful in converting a JAA European pilots license. This is ludicrous as I am sure most of my fellow aviators would agree. I am going to file complaints with FAA, and also with congressmen that is involved with the FAA legislation to start retaliation against this unfair practice., the FAA practices very fair and non discriminatory practices regarding this. If you want to work in the US you need a Green Card or Citizenship, something thats very fair.
Shame on you Europe for the JAA system.......
I am a dual US/Citizen of a European Nation.
I have been looking in to converting my US ATP with multiple type ratings and several thousand hours of flight time.
The conversion process is extremely idiotic, meaningless and bureaucratic in nature, for no reason other than being difficult.
You have to sit in on 14 written test that is designed to be extremely difficult, with a very high failure rate, even after you have proven yourself as an experienced aviator....then the buffoonery is not over yet, you have to take additional check rides in an airplane to prove to the European member states you can fly an airplane.
I have no idea who came up with this rules(read the UK) for the European member states. This does NOT promote additional safety in ANY way or fashion. This only hampers and prevents any safe operations of European aerospace. Right now they hire extreme low time copilots that possess the
JAA license, but with NO experience instead of hiring the best they can from overseas or worse yet park airplanes because of pilot shortage.
I think the European aviation authorities should be ashamed of them self for this legislation and meaningless rule making.
This does not promote any additional measure of safety, other than limiting airlines in Europe from hiring the best qualified pilots they can get. After all this is a global economy. I believe if you have a work permit or citizenship in a EU or European member state, possessing a pilot license from a ICAO or FAA country it should be fairly easy to convert a commercial or ATP license.
The FAA in the USA is very accommodating and helpful in converting a JAA European pilots license. This is ludicrous as I am sure most of my fellow aviators would agree. I am going to file complaints with FAA, and also with congressmen that is involved with the FAA legislation to start retaliation against this unfair practice., the FAA practices very fair and non discriminatory practices regarding this. If you want to work in the US you need a Green Card or Citizenship, something thats very fair.
Shame on you Europe for the JAA system.......
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The FAA in the USA is very accommodating and helpful in converting a JAA European pilots license.
Shame on you Europe for the JAA system.......
p.s. Don't be mistaken to think that the JAA makes it any easier for EU nationals to convert an FAA license.
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Really? Off the top of my head I can name about two dozen europeans working in the U.S., and I have met dozens more. I can't think of a single U.S. citizen working in Europe, though.
And yes, what the JAA requires you to do to convert your FAA ticket is nothing short of harassment.
And yes, what the JAA requires you to do to convert your FAA ticket is nothing short of harassment.
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FAA
Yes of course there is tons of Europeans working in the US thats my point...the FAA is very lenient and accommodating with foreign nationals....as opposed to the Europeans. Where it is a brick wall of lunacy
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I got my CFI in 1991 and eagerly put my name on the list at the local FBO.
Didn't get many students though - three dutch fellows were living in a pop-up camper behind the hangar, sweeping floors and answering phones for free, and they got first crack at any prospective students.
They were nice guys, and I admired them for working so hard to be professional pilots. I did resent, however, that I couldn't cross the pond and work in their country.
Didn't get many students though - three dutch fellows were living in a pop-up camper behind the hangar, sweeping floors and answering phones for free, and they got first crack at any prospective students.
They were nice guys, and I admired them for working so hard to be professional pilots. I did resent, however, that I couldn't cross the pond and work in their country.
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The JAA wants you to have some fundamental knowledge Wheter or not it's useful is another matter. There are LOTS of useless exams in the US (SAT, GRE) that don't tell you anything about the applicant and are likewise insulting to a foreigner's intelligence. Do the exams, or don't work in Europe.
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HO MY DEAR.....
This only hampers and prevents any safe operations of European aerospace.
-SAFETY AS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROCESS OF CONVERTING YOUR LICENCE. HAVING AN FAA LICENCE IS JUST AS SAFE AS HAVING A JAA ONE.
You have to sit in on 14 written test that is designed to be extremely difficult
-THE 14 WRITTEN EXAMS ARE DESIGNED TO GIVE YOU A MORE COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE OF AVIATION SUBJECT. IF YOU THINK THE ARE VERY DIFFICULT, YOU HAVE GOT A PROBLEM.
Right now they hire extreme low time copilots that possess the
JAA license, but with NO experience instead of hiring the best they can from overseas or worse yet park airplanes because of pilot shortage.
-WHERE YOU BORNE WITH 1000s OF HOURS LOGGED ON YOUR LOGBOOK??? I DO NOT THINK SO. IF YOU THINK YOU ARE GOD OF AVIATION YOU MIGHT HAVE ON MORE PROBLEM...
I CAN TELL YOU OF AT LEAST 10 US CITIZENS WORKING FOR MY AIRLINE IN THE EU.
THE JAA IS NOT PERFECT, BUT YOU CAN NOT EXPECT TO BE GIVEN A LICENCE JUST BECAUSE YOU WISH SO...
GOOD LUCK
This only hampers and prevents any safe operations of European aerospace.
-SAFETY AS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROCESS OF CONVERTING YOUR LICENCE. HAVING AN FAA LICENCE IS JUST AS SAFE AS HAVING A JAA ONE.
You have to sit in on 14 written test that is designed to be extremely difficult
-THE 14 WRITTEN EXAMS ARE DESIGNED TO GIVE YOU A MORE COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE OF AVIATION SUBJECT. IF YOU THINK THE ARE VERY DIFFICULT, YOU HAVE GOT A PROBLEM.
Right now they hire extreme low time copilots that possess the
JAA license, but with NO experience instead of hiring the best they can from overseas or worse yet park airplanes because of pilot shortage.
-WHERE YOU BORNE WITH 1000s OF HOURS LOGGED ON YOUR LOGBOOK??? I DO NOT THINK SO. IF YOU THINK YOU ARE GOD OF AVIATION YOU MIGHT HAVE ON MORE PROBLEM...
I CAN TELL YOU OF AT LEAST 10 US CITIZENS WORKING FOR MY AIRLINE IN THE EU.
THE JAA IS NOT PERFECT, BUT YOU CAN NOT EXPECT TO BE GIVEN A LICENCE JUST BECAUSE YOU WISH SO...
GOOD LUCK
Last edited by The cosmopolitan boy; 21st Apr 2008 at 13:30.
The Cooler King
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How about being proactive?
Instead of solving the problem, you want to double it by getting the FAA to do the same?
The JAA tests are there to weed out psycho Yanks who think they can come over here with their Orville and Wilbur store card license (it's LICENCE!....oh no, but wait, you call it a certificate don't you. And here's me thinking that certificates came on sheets of paper. Oh well.)
To borrow one of yours.....Gimme a break, dude!
Instead of solving the problem, you want to double it by getting the FAA to do the same?
The JAA tests are there to weed out psycho Yanks who think they can come over here with their Orville and Wilbur store card license (it's LICENCE!....oh no, but wait, you call it a certificate don't you. And here's me thinking that certificates came on sheets of paper. Oh well.)
To borrow one of yours.....Gimme a break, dude!
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Big Mouth
Yes Sir that what ....my point was of course there is tons of Europeans flying in the US and yes I know a couple of Yanks flying in Europe. My point was the meaningless obstacles.....
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Calm down cosmo boy,
747jetdriver,
The JAA exams are a pain in the arse but they are the hoops we all have to jump through to get the shiny licence, in a perfect world there would only be one licence for everyone......but there's not and until that time if you want to come to work i Europe, which you are welcome to, I would suggest getting your head into those nasty JAA ATPL books and burn the midnight oil!!
Don't let them get to you.........the JAA I mean!!
M.
747jetdriver,
The JAA exams are a pain in the arse but they are the hoops we all have to jump through to get the shiny licence
, in a perfect world there would only be one licence for everyone......but there's not and until that time if you want to come to work i Europe, which you are welcome to, I would suggest getting your head into those nasty JAA ATPL books and burn the midnight oil!!Don't let them get to you.........the JAA I mean!!
M.
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If you shouldnt have to do the exams why should we all not get FAA licenses and convert wouldnt that be easier? yes !and it would lower the standard here .
and you said you would encourage retaliation! it sounds like the exams might give you some needed common sense!
good luck
and you said you would encourage retaliation! it sounds like the exams might give you some needed common sense!
good luck
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I am flying for a European carrier and only have US skippers all the time, and I know there are more of them on the other fleets, so it canīt be that difficult.
Most overseas pilots are flying on validations.
A friend of mine, an experienced Cpt., just converted his licence to JAA.
Yes you have to sit 14 exams for no reason and FAA might be easier on this.
The US just compensates that with immigration rules, let alone, work permits.
Itīs a global economy, but no government has heard about that so far.
You have to sit useless exams. If you do that, you get your job and most probably a better salary than at home, so whatīs your problem?
(all US pilots in Europe I know are here for the money, not the women, the food or anything else).
Most overseas pilots are flying on validations.
A friend of mine, an experienced Cpt., just converted his licence to JAA.
Yes you have to sit 14 exams for no reason and FAA might be easier on this.
The US just compensates that with immigration rules, let alone, work permits.
Itīs a global economy, but no government has heard about that so far.
You have to sit useless exams. If you do that, you get your job and most probably a better salary than at home, so whatīs your problem?
(all US pilots in Europe I know are here for the money, not the women, the food or anything else).
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I also have plenty of US colleagues (in EZY) who can live and work in the EU just because their great uncle's father's cousin's sister was Irish/British and therefore they can claim an EU passport... 
Once again, where there's a will there's a way. Just like those Dutch guys sweeping floors in the FBO in the US, Americans can also chose to work/study hard for your JAA exams and get a job in the EU. So stop complaining and get on with it!
There is nothing discriminatory about the way Americans (non-JAA) pilots are treated. EU citizens have to put up with the same idiotic exams when converting an FAA license. Whether or not these exams are realistic is an entirely different topic.
Once again, where there's a will there's a way. Just like those Dutch guys sweeping floors in the FBO in the US, Americans can also chose to work/study hard for your JAA exams and get a job in the EU. So stop complaining and get on with it!
There is nothing discriminatory about the way Americans (non-JAA) pilots are treated. EU citizens have to put up with the same idiotic exams when converting an FAA license. Whether or not these exams are realistic is an entirely different topic.
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"meaningless obstacles"
Thats what aviation has turned into in the last 20 years.
But unfortunately,I don't feel sorry for you because I(as a Dutchman) had to do the whole fr....king shaboom as well about 15 years ago.
So nothing has really changed has it?????
Still hope you get your job though
On the other hand I hope the Europeans start harrasing the US a little bit more back with finger prints before you enter the EU or sending all your credit card details and asking you a ton off silly questions on the flight downhere
Thats what aviation has turned into in the last 20 years.
But unfortunately,I don't feel sorry for you because I(as a Dutchman) had to do the whole fr....king shaboom as well about 15 years ago.
So nothing has really changed has it?????
Still hope you get your job though
On the other hand I hope the Europeans start harrasing the US a little bit more back with finger prints before you enter the EU or sending all your credit card details and asking you a ton off silly questions on the flight down
here
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Mackey
Mackey you are right on...yes you are correct. The point to my whole post its ludicrous and an insult to our profession as pilots and airmen. This does NOT promote any more safety..but just an additional hurdle that we don't need on either side of the Atlantic.
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Rotorkinight
Rotorknight I I feel for you....bu I am fine where I am at. My point to the whole thing was sort of....Europe is missing out on fine pilots that would have been an asset ......