Safety issues in UK locos
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: India
Safety issues in UK locos
Met a couple of ex Easy and Ryan pilots now working in Asia...was curious why they had left as I have seen the salaries advertised. Seemed good money to me. They told me that there are lots of safety issues but declined to elaborate; maybe not to embarrass their 1st world compatriots to a 3rd world bloke. I find this interesting as I found 1st world blokes takes every chance to hit at 3rd world airlines and pilots; but now we have these fellas screaming to get into our poor 3rd world dowdy airlines!
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Lost
Correct me if I'm wrong but technically India is 1st World
In a nut Shell, along with USA, Australia, NZ, Singapore, France, Poland, Holland, (even Russia at the time) etc........ie anyone who was aligned with the "Allied Forces" during WW2.
2nd world was anyone allied with the "Axis Forces" during WW2 ie, Japan, Italy, etc.
All the rest were classed as 3rd World.
History lesson over!
BR.
In a nut Shell, along with USA, Australia, NZ, Singapore, France, Poland, Holland, (even Russia at the time) etc........ie anyone who was aligned with the "Allied Forces" during WW2.
2nd world was anyone allied with the "Axis Forces" during WW2 ie, Japan, Italy, etc.
All the rest were classed as 3rd World.
History lesson over!
BR.
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Germany
There are no "safety issues" at EZY. They are very, very cautious to deliver a "safe" product.
Otherwise the company could run downhill very fast!!!
What could be an issue, fatique! The job ainīt easy! Donīt feel it within 2-3 years, but after that time, lot guys are looking for part time.
Otherwise the company could run downhill very fast!!!
What could be an issue, fatique! The job ainīt easy! Donīt feel it within 2-3 years, but after that time, lot guys are looking for part time.
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2,372
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From: Asia
Salaries good but taxes and living costs VERY high, hence money saving ability not good. Lots of short sectors and high hours in busy airspace, after fifth early in a row you will be very tired, getting up at 4.30am in the middle of winter not so great.
Low cost = low benefits. Crew meals, ID travel, insurance etc
Come to India, salary paid nett of tax, free luxury accommodation, low cost of living, ID travel, 10 weeks on 2 weeks off. Spend the off time on the beach in Thailand, South of France etc
Sounds great
Low cost = low benefits. Crew meals, ID travel, insurance etc
Come to India, salary paid nett of tax, free luxury accommodation, low cost of living, ID travel, 10 weeks on 2 weeks off. Spend the off time on the beach in Thailand, South of France etc
Sounds great
Guest
Posts: n/a
High hours, fatigue and poor dispatch support ARE SAFETY ISSUES, are they not?
Poor dispatch a safety risk? - NOPE!!
Fatique a safety risk? - YES!! - So go to bed in due time when you have 5 days early.
I don't know aboyt RYR, but EZY is having a very safety minded culture, probably more than many airlines
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: England.
Don't you think that if there were safety issues something would have happened?
Beats me why there aren't craters everywhere. There have been a few, for reasons never properly revealed, I think. They've come close on other occasions, but got away with it. Maybe it's like buses.....none for ages, then a whole bunch at once. It's certainly an ongoing mystery.
Of course, the CAA (or whatever) won't be doing anything about it. "No prangs, no problem" is the perfectly understandable easy option. Being proactive requires an incentive and the public sector doesn't work like that.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: UK
Can't say much about FR but have worked with EZY and many, many other carriers over a lot of years.
You will look far and wide to find a better carrier than this in terms of their safety culture.
They have robust and challenging systmes. They do look to improve on the 'standard'. Was it not EZY that commissioned outside experts to look at pilot fatigue? Did they not change their crew rostering against the findings? Did the CAA not acknowledge the work done as thorough and competent?
I've never been employed by EZY but have worked along side their people. They have a lot of very good individuals but like all large employers, they have a few of plonkers as well. Same for BA, KLM, AF, TUI, AA, CO etc that I've experienced.
Statistics say that, sooner or later, one of these carriers will suffer a mishap. Hopefully not for a long, long time. No Doubt when it does happen the press will crucify them due to being low cost. I often wonder when the legacy people and press will understand that loco does not mean cheap; just efficient use of resources.
You will look far and wide to find a better carrier than this in terms of their safety culture.
They have robust and challenging systmes. They do look to improve on the 'standard'. Was it not EZY that commissioned outside experts to look at pilot fatigue? Did they not change their crew rostering against the findings? Did the CAA not acknowledge the work done as thorough and competent?
I've never been employed by EZY but have worked along side their people. They have a lot of very good individuals but like all large employers, they have a few of plonkers as well. Same for BA, KLM, AF, TUI, AA, CO etc that I've experienced.
Statistics say that, sooner or later, one of these carriers will suffer a mishap. Hopefully not for a long, long time. No Doubt when it does happen the press will crucify them due to being low cost. I often wonder when the legacy people and press will understand that loco does not mean cheap; just efficient use of resources.
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Thames Valley
but now we have these fellas screaming to get into our poor 3rd world dowdy airlines!
You will look far and wide to find a better carrier than this in terms of their safety culture.
There are no "safety issues" at EZY. They are very, very cautious to deliver a "safe" product.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,094
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From: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Just to add to the already long list of sensible answer to foolish comments - there are no safety issues at EZY. I have worked for 5 airlines and the safety culture here is as strong as it gets. We also employ pilots from such outstanding companies as Cathay and BA, to name only a couple - they too will say the same.
Regarding the idea that "we have these fellas screaming to get into our poor 3rd world dowdy airlines" , this is somewhat innaccurate. You may be referring to the voluntary secondment of some pilots from easyJet to Indigo for the Winter season. EasyJet trawled the company for volunteers to go but could hardly get anyone to sign up - in the end 8 FOs and not a single Captain took the bait. Not exactly "screaming to get in", but there again there is nothing as boring as the truth.
Regarding the idea that "we have these fellas screaming to get into our poor 3rd world dowdy airlines" , this is somewhat innaccurate. You may be referring to the voluntary secondment of some pilots from easyJet to Indigo for the Winter season. EasyJet trawled the company for volunteers to go but could hardly get anyone to sign up - in the end 8 FOs and not a single Captain took the bait. Not exactly "screaming to get in", but there again there is nothing as boring as the truth.
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: TOD
acbus1
So you choose the tabloid view; never let the truth get in the way of some sensationalist scaremongering.
Low cost airlines are not public sector. Everyone working for a low cost airline has a stake in a continued accident-free operation. There is big investment in people and equipment to this end despite what the tabloid media would have you think.
Beats me why there aren't craters everywhere. There have been a few, for reasons never properly revealed, I think.
Being proactive requires an incentive and the public sector doesn't work like that
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 942
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From: Thailand
Here we go, yet again, for the umpteenth time.
Akali Dal strikes me as yet another cheapo, too lazy to investigate, 4th estate type fishing for dirt to splurge on his red-top. Why do you dignify him with a reply, I wonder?
I hear that many Indian airlines ignore safety issues.
I hear that many Arabian Gulf airlines cut corners.
I hear many African airlines ignore safety issues.
I hear that many Asian airlines, particularly the LOCOs, cut corners.
All my statements are just as puerile and fantastic as his original post.
When will all this digging at LOCOs ever stop? As long as we reply to this rubbish, we just perpetuate the myths.
Ignore him and he might just go away, with any luck.
In the meantime Dal, try searching this forum for all the answers to your journo instincts.
Akali Dal strikes me as yet another cheapo, too lazy to investigate, 4th estate type fishing for dirt to splurge on his red-top. Why do you dignify him with a reply, I wonder?
I hear that many Indian airlines ignore safety issues.
I hear that many Arabian Gulf airlines cut corners.
I hear many African airlines ignore safety issues.
I hear that many Asian airlines, particularly the LOCOs, cut corners.
All my statements are just as puerile and fantastic as his original post.
When will all this digging at LOCOs ever stop? As long as we reply to this rubbish, we just perpetuate the myths.
Ignore him and he might just go away, with any luck.
In the meantime Dal, try searching this forum for all the answers to your journo instincts.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 64
From: On the road
Akali Dal - There is no issue. They are all governed by the same safety standards and if they fall short they will be grounded - end of story.
Whoever your disaffected ex-EZY/RYR friends are they are probably the same sort of person that you see all too often in this industry. People who profess to have inside knowledge of dark practices, poor procedures etc etc etc but who in reality couldn't cut it and got overlooked for promotions so resort to tall stories over a beer or 9 to impress their new and impressionable friends..like yourself!
Whoever your disaffected ex-EZY/RYR friends are they are probably the same sort of person that you see all too often in this industry. People who profess to have inside knowledge of dark practices, poor procedures etc etc etc but who in reality couldn't cut it and got overlooked for promotions so resort to tall stories over a beer or 9 to impress their new and impressionable friends..like yourself!
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 942
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From: Thailand
Well said, TT. You have it spot on there. ์Naysayers and doom-mongers crop up with monotonous regularity in bars all around the world. Posters begin threads on here without any research or reading of past posts on the issue. The likes of Akali Dall smell an opportunity to stir the sludge and see what rises to the top. Try reading the interminable posts on this subject stored in the archive and you will see that the issue is a non-issue, in spite of how much you would wish it to be otherwise.
AD, I still think you're a journo trying to dig up some salacious quotes from so-called, 'industry sources'.
Go back under your log and do some real research.
AD, I still think you're a journo trying to dig up some salacious quotes from so-called, 'industry sources'.
Go back under your log and do some real research.