Longhaul Direct Entry Captains......
Join Date: Dec 2005
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long haul v short haul
gday guys
was a 737 driver in europe lhs in the loco sector doing 900 hrs a year now on 340 rhs doing 750 hrs a year.
as someone pointed out there isnt really much of a difference......except quite rightly the boredom,hotel rooms on christmas day,jetlag which is an awful feeling,if you are relief on a long sector you mightnt even manipulate the controls (you become a well dressed well paid passenger).
if you are a hands on kinda guy give long haul a miss,however time off is good.
was a 737 driver in europe lhs in the loco sector doing 900 hrs a year now on 340 rhs doing 750 hrs a year.
as someone pointed out there isnt really much of a difference......except quite rightly the boredom,hotel rooms on christmas day,jetlag which is an awful feeling,if you are relief on a long sector you mightnt even manipulate the controls (you become a well dressed well paid passenger).
if you are a hands on kinda guy give long haul a miss,however time off is good.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
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I think some airlines would prefer a DEC to have previous long haul experience because the DEC will have been there and done that and won't be at the back of a rather mild and fairly short learning curve.
Short haul tend to remain within their own climatological region whereas on long haul it can change from trip to trip, e.g. Singapore this trip east coast of the USA in winter next sort of thing and you may only get to visit some very busy destinations with variable ATC and en route procedures once every two or three months.
When they employ you as a DEC the company is hoping to be buying your relevant experience as well, if they are desperate then they will teach you the differences but would prefer not to have to. My two cents worth.
Short haul tend to remain within their own climatological region whereas on long haul it can change from trip to trip, e.g. Singapore this trip east coast of the USA in winter next sort of thing and you may only get to visit some very busy destinations with variable ATC and en route procedures once every two or three months.
When they employ you as a DEC the company is hoping to be buying your relevant experience as well, if they are desperate then they will teach you the differences but would prefer not to have to. My two cents worth.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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I know a B737 captain hired by Qatar Airways directly on the A330.
If you don't mind living in the sandpit, you could give it a try, and negociate with them if they only offer you the A319 fleet.
Korean Airlines might be another one. (Heard they take non-rated captains, now)
If you don't mind living in the sandpit, you could give it a try, and negociate with them if they only offer you the A319 fleet.
Korean Airlines might be another one. (Heard they take non-rated captains, now)
Join Date: May 1999
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Why? the poster didn't say that the chap only had ATR experiance.Maybe he had heavy jet experiance before ATR.
This used to happen regularly at BA, we even had chaps go LHS on turboprop to LHS Concorde.
This used to happen regularly at BA, we even had chaps go LHS on turboprop to LHS Concorde.
I can understand the ever going discussion about shorthaul vs. longhaul. Personally I think ego has a lot to do about it, but hey what do I know!
What I cannot understand is the term 'wide-body experience'.
Why would a corporate Gulfstream V PIC not be 'able' to apply for a 777 captaincy?
Is it because of the longer wings?
Is it the pressure to please more women in the back?
Heavier usually flies easier so...
What is this so called wide-body experience?
What I cannot understand is the term 'wide-body experience'.
Why would a corporate Gulfstream V PIC not be 'able' to apply for a 777 captaincy?
Is it because of the longer wings?
Is it the pressure to please more women in the back?
Heavier usually flies easier so...
What is this so called wide-body experience?
In all honesty, I changed to longhaul to facilitate a change of lifestyle, not to please my ego. And I really do net regret this. Now I joined of course at the bottom of a list, and would not see why a guy, who happened to have joined an airline during the heydays should have "priority". By the time I'll be captain we are talking around 16 years FO time.. I guess it would be problematic to put me up with a DEC in my 15th year! 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Hi ARTAX
Have you considered Flyglobespan they have a requirement for 737 Captains at the moment.
They were operating 737s across to the states last year, not sure at the moment with there ETOPs issues, but I think they are still doing Canada.
They also have a wet lease contract in KL for two 73s.
They also type rate pilots off the 737 onto the 767, mostly FOs at the moment, and 767 FOs back to the 737 for commands.
Try Wynnwith or Zenon if you're interested they do the recruitment.
Enos
Have you considered Flyglobespan they have a requirement for 737 Captains at the moment.
They were operating 737s across to the states last year, not sure at the moment with there ETOPs issues, but I think they are still doing Canada.
They also have a wet lease contract in KL for two 73s.
They also type rate pilots off the 737 onto the 767, mostly FOs at the moment, and 767 FOs back to the 737 for commands.
Try Wynnwith or Zenon if you're interested they do the recruitment.
Enos
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So lets flip the debate around do those longhaul pilots who wish to go short haul feel that they are suitably qualified for a DEC on something smaller that say does a 4 sector day into demanding european airports or Greek or Egyptian. That have very little or no ATC and a very "hooky" looking Vor/DME that threads you through the hills at 4am??? If the answer is yes then we are then saying that long haul is the pinacle of aviation experience !!! It equips you to fly anything.
However if we are saying no, you would need say 6 months RHS to get used to the 4 sectors and the problems we face in europe, then it would seem that both long and short haul have mutually transferable skills that need focussing on the relevant type of flying be it long haul and short haul.
Now surely command is all about aircraft management skills and nothing to do with being a "stick and rudder man/woman". These things have autopilots and personally i encourage my right seater to keep that in as long as humanly possible, stops the coffee being spilt.
So the story about the ATR captain swapping, surely a good captain is a good captain ie a good manager. There are a lot of not so great guys with lots of experience running around. So IMHO a good skipper on an ATR making close decisions getting into a Sligo on a windy day will make the same good decisions landing the 777 into miami on wet and windy day. Now maybe airlines put people DEC heavy who they have noted as good captains, who have made command decisions.
Who would you rather have in your left seat on the 777 a guy who has 10 years jet command say on a A320 who has made the decisions for 10 years flying with say an F/O with 5years on 777 who can fly. Or a Guy with 6 years F/O experience and no Command experience ?? Sometimes the hardest decision a captain has to make ist to tell the company that he/she is not taking the aircraft out no matter what the commercial pressure.. That ability comes with experience and confidence in your command experience..
Maybe that confidence is why some operators take DEC's on wide body after all the weight of the aircraft is just a number.
However if we are saying no, you would need say 6 months RHS to get used to the 4 sectors and the problems we face in europe, then it would seem that both long and short haul have mutually transferable skills that need focussing on the relevant type of flying be it long haul and short haul.
Now surely command is all about aircraft management skills and nothing to do with being a "stick and rudder man/woman". These things have autopilots and personally i encourage my right seater to keep that in as long as humanly possible, stops the coffee being spilt.
So the story about the ATR captain swapping, surely a good captain is a good captain ie a good manager. There are a lot of not so great guys with lots of experience running around. So IMHO a good skipper on an ATR making close decisions getting into a Sligo on a windy day will make the same good decisions landing the 777 into miami on wet and windy day. Now maybe airlines put people DEC heavy who they have noted as good captains, who have made command decisions.
Who would you rather have in your left seat on the 777 a guy who has 10 years jet command say on a A320 who has made the decisions for 10 years flying with say an F/O with 5years on 777 who can fly. Or a Guy with 6 years F/O experience and no Command experience ?? Sometimes the hardest decision a captain has to make ist to tell the company that he/she is not taking the aircraft out no matter what the commercial pressure.. That ability comes with experience and confidence in your command experience..
Maybe that confidence is why some operators take DEC's on wide body after all the weight of the aircraft is just a number.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Bear in mind also that the 'suitably' experienced DEC with wide body and long haul hours probably has already done the four sector day ad infinitum.
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Im my opinion flying with a long haul capt vs shorthaul is like chalk and cheese.
The precision, calmness and overall atmosphere in the cockpit with the long haul guys is miles different to the short haul rapid fire guys.
Experience most definitely shows, and it does take years.
Its like flying with an old kung foo master vs karate kid!
The precision, calmness and overall atmosphere in the cockpit with the long haul guys is miles different to the short haul rapid fire guys.
Experience most definitely shows, and it does take years.
Its like flying with an old kung foo master vs karate kid!
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The precision, calmness and overall atmosphere in the cockpit with the long haul guys is miles different to the short haul rapid fire guys.
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I think the previous makes the short haul sound as though you go around with your hair on fire. Flying a mix of both 6/7 hour sectors and the 40 mins to amsterdam. There is no difference of level of activity on a flight deck. I am sure the level activity approaching JFK is no different to approaching amsterdam on a busy monday morning. You get weather you brief, the only difference is the amount of time between flap retraction and 10,000 feet that you have to either "scoff" your breakfast or chew every mouthfull 15 times.
Still not convinced. Agreed the ETOPs element is different, howevere many shorthaul are flying tango routes to the canaries already. Same decisions being made if you lose an engine. You either divert to marakesh on the canaries or you go to Greenland with the 767...
Either way its no black art, it aint rocket science, planes go up and planes come down and how you manage the inbetween is all down to how good your CRM and command skills are.
Still not convinced. Agreed the ETOPs element is different, howevere many shorthaul are flying tango routes to the canaries already. Same decisions being made if you lose an engine. You either divert to marakesh on the canaries or you go to Greenland with the 767...
Either way its no black art, it aint rocket science, planes go up and planes come down and how you manage the inbetween is all down to how good your CRM and command skills are.
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I knew a guy, who upgraded from LHS of an ATR-72 directly to LHS of a 777. Now, this idea gives me wet dreams!
Many people know/knew a guy who went from RHS is a very aristocratic sounding UK airline to Chief Training Captain (yes, it's true!) of a very smarmy sounding one.
He didn't last long, but he sacred the crap outa lotta folks in the meantime.