EZY 60min report
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EZY 60min report
Can any of the EZY chaps/chappesses let me know how well the 60min report works at the company. To me, this would result in a rushed briefing, which can only be regarded as against every principle of safety we have been endoctrined with.
Also, is it a current bone of contention within the majority? ie would you prefer 75min report?
Any thoughts from the eazy folk?
Will
Also, is it a current bone of contention within the majority? ie would you prefer 75min report?
Any thoughts from the eazy folk?
Will
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The 60' report was also in use with my last 3 companies.
Works very well indeed in that almost no individual turns up at -60 but rather at -80 or even -90. So, no rushed briefing.
Chief pilots, managers and accountants all love flight crew to work for peanuts
Then it also depends on the time needed from the crew room to the aircraft, e.g. LGW being one the longest around thanks to gate location and questionable security checks
live 2 fly 2 live
Works very well indeed in that almost no individual turns up at -60 but rather at -80 or even -90. So, no rushed briefing.
Chief pilots, managers and accountants all love flight crew to work for peanuts
Then it also depends on the time needed from the crew room to the aircraft, e.g. LGW being one the longest around thanks to gate location and questionable security checks
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Almost all the european short haul operators I know work to a 60 minute report time. It works very well, loads of time to check the weather, decide on the fuel, meet the cabin crew, have a moan about the day ahead to others in the crew room and wonder out! On most days 45 minutes would suffice
I actually do report at 60 mins, but invariably find that my F.O. has been there for at least 15 minutes and has already got the paperwork ready - so I suppose I cheat a bit.
If the pre-flight requires extra time then so be it and I annotate the Journey Log accordingly. The trouble then come with the requirement to be at the a/c 35 mins before the STD, or we get reported by the handling agents for being late - tough. Again on the Journey Log. It takes at least 15 minutes to walk to the a/c and on the remote stands even longer.
We do get an extra 15 minutes for early Line Training days though.
My attitude is that a proper briefing and safety over-ride everything else - that said we get away on time unless there is a problem on the day - lo vis procs, pax problems, security checks on pax etc.
If the pre-flight requires extra time then so be it and I annotate the Journey Log accordingly. The trouble then come with the requirement to be at the a/c 35 mins before the STD, or we get reported by the handling agents for being late - tough. Again on the Journey Log. It takes at least 15 minutes to walk to the a/c and on the remote stands even longer.
We do get an extra 15 minutes for early Line Training days though.
My attitude is that a proper briefing and safety over-ride everything else - that said we get away on time unless there is a problem on the day - lo vis procs, pax problems, security checks on pax etc.
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...and
Just to highlight that CRM at easy is second to none, and I can say without word of a lie that I have reported at 60 mins, to find my Captain has got the paperwork ready.......luvly. :-)
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no prob here as well (sunny mxp).
Most of us report maybe a bit earlier, but it's up to us..
If We get there -60 and that day the wx is crap, a/c with mel or etc.. Then I am sure we will take some more time and note it on the journey log!
So far no pobs...
Then to make it even quicker, you just go for 1 ton extra
steady guys, just joking
Speevy
Most of us report maybe a bit earlier, but it's up to us..
If We get there -60 and that day the wx is crap, a/c with mel or etc.. Then I am sure we will take some more time and note it on the journey log!
So far no pobs...
Then to make it even quicker, you just go for 1 ton extra
steady guys, just joking
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Have had 45 min report airside for a few years but changes to the airport now starting to hamper reporting on time, might have to increase to 60mins but its going to have a problem with starting on earlies after days off.
regards
keepitlit
regards
keepitlit
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Ok, so by the sounds of it, the 60min report works only due to the crew coming in early, and punctuality is sacrificed at the expense of safety (MEL etc) which is fine by me.
Is it a current problem at EZ? ie do people want to increase it to 75mins, or are they happy? GB pilots will be reporting with 75mins to off blocks, so it could be a chance to increase to 75mins?!
Will
Is it a current problem at EZ? ie do people want to increase it to 75mins, or are they happy? GB pilots will be reporting with 75mins to off blocks, so it could be a chance to increase to 75mins?!
Will
On a normal day the 60 min report seems to work fine, even if you both show up at report time.
The cabin crew don't start briefing until after report, and we give them 10-15 min to complete thier stuff before we go over and say hello.
If the IT is working well (its not always), then all the days Met, Notams and Plogs come out in one pack & is fairly easily reviewed.
At STN we walk to the aircraft, to get to the aircraft STD -35.
This of course can turn to a can of worms with perhaps a crewing cock up, aircraft change, or performance problem (but then we just go when its sorted & safe to do so).
I'm sure they won't change the report time to the GB 75 min, as one or two of the 4 sector days are amazingly close to max FDP........
I don't hear too many complaints about the length of the report times at the moment.
The cabin crew don't start briefing until after report, and we give them 10-15 min to complete thier stuff before we go over and say hello.
If the IT is working well (its not always), then all the days Met, Notams and Plogs come out in one pack & is fairly easily reviewed.
At STN we walk to the aircraft, to get to the aircraft STD -35.
This of course can turn to a can of worms with perhaps a crewing cock up, aircraft change, or performance problem (but then we just go when its sorted & safe to do so).
I'm sure they won't change the report time to the GB 75 min, as one or two of the 4 sector days are amazingly close to max FDP........
I don't hear too many complaints about the length of the report times at the moment.
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Have followed this thread as an interested outsider, and one working to a 30-45 min report for a turboprop outfit, which never causes any problems.
The tone of your post to me is inflammatory Will. I have many mates at EZY, some have been there since day 1, and goodness knows I have heard many many moans about the company over the last 10 years or whatever. But do you know what the one thing I have never heard them moan about is Will - that's right, the report time!!!! You may not like the fact you are soon going to be part of the huge orange machine, but stop looking for problems where there are none.
The tone of your post to me is inflammatory Will. I have many mates at EZY, some have been there since day 1, and goodness knows I have heard many many moans about the company over the last 10 years or whatever. But do you know what the one thing I have never heard them moan about is Will - that's right, the report time!!!! You may not like the fact you are soon going to be part of the huge orange machine, but stop looking for problems where there are none.
Not sure I would be best impressed if I had to report 15 mins earlier. At the moment I can choose when I am early i.e. when conditions suggest more briefing time required. Most times 60 mins is more than enough.
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Sadly people who report voluntarily 15 mins early are only making a rod for their own, and their colleagues' backs. It is a silly and short-sighted habit, and should be made to stop.
They do it from keenness and enthusiasm, of course, and I don't blame them for that - we were all keen enthusiastic FOs once, BUT...
If the brief is extended by complex weather, ATC, operational difficulties or inop computers then turning up early merely hides the problems from official view, and although it helps the Holy Grail of schedules, allows the company to get away with shoddy support (eg IT) and ignoring the fact that briefings often take longer than the short time allocated, ie an unrealistic allocation of duty time pre-flight, which is just dishonest.
The only way companies can be made to understand that a CAVOK, nil notam, nil malfunction, nil operational problem day is NOT the norm is by late departures (where they so occur) annotated as "Insufficient time for pre-flight briefing* on report forms. I bet this never, ever happens.
An excess of zeal to "help" the company is not a commendable or Professional attitude, and here it voluntarily perpetuates an inadequate and manipulative system.
The CAA have a responsibility too, and with computerised crew check-in systems should be looking hard at how the company clearly put de-facto pressure on pilots to turn up early "in order to get the job done". The frequency of early reports should be carefully analysed, and appropriate action taken. If this were done properly I suspect the implications would be large, far reaching and serious. Which is why I don't think it is likely to actually happen.
Reporting early may well be a violation of duty hours. It should therefore NEVER happen in a Professional environment, unless it is honestly accounted for with respect to actual, as opposed to notional report times. If the actual report time is not recorded (why is it not mandatory for the computer recorded report time to be the actual time of start of FDP? CAA, you are shirking your responsibility here...) then this is a deliberate falsification of flight documentation, isn't it?
The commonly held view that early reports are required to secure positive "attitude" scores for promotion is utterly shameful, and the mere existence of such a view is a sad indictment on a promotion system that thus appears punitive, oppressive and manipulative.
You ain't paid to be there out of hours. Just don't do it. Late schedules due to insufficient briefing time are their problem, not yours!
They do it from keenness and enthusiasm, of course, and I don't blame them for that - we were all keen enthusiastic FOs once, BUT...
If the brief is extended by complex weather, ATC, operational difficulties or inop computers then turning up early merely hides the problems from official view, and although it helps the Holy Grail of schedules, allows the company to get away with shoddy support (eg IT) and ignoring the fact that briefings often take longer than the short time allocated, ie an unrealistic allocation of duty time pre-flight, which is just dishonest.
The only way companies can be made to understand that a CAVOK, nil notam, nil malfunction, nil operational problem day is NOT the norm is by late departures (where they so occur) annotated as "Insufficient time for pre-flight briefing* on report forms. I bet this never, ever happens.
An excess of zeal to "help" the company is not a commendable or Professional attitude, and here it voluntarily perpetuates an inadequate and manipulative system.
The CAA have a responsibility too, and with computerised crew check-in systems should be looking hard at how the company clearly put de-facto pressure on pilots to turn up early "in order to get the job done". The frequency of early reports should be carefully analysed, and appropriate action taken. If this were done properly I suspect the implications would be large, far reaching and serious. Which is why I don't think it is likely to actually happen.
Reporting early may well be a violation of duty hours. It should therefore NEVER happen in a Professional environment, unless it is honestly accounted for with respect to actual, as opposed to notional report times. If the actual report time is not recorded (why is it not mandatory for the computer recorded report time to be the actual time of start of FDP? CAA, you are shirking your responsibility here...) then this is a deliberate falsification of flight documentation, isn't it?
The commonly held view that early reports are required to secure positive "attitude" scores for promotion is utterly shameful, and the mere existence of such a view is a sad indictment on a promotion system that thus appears punitive, oppressive and manipulative.
You ain't paid to be there out of hours. Just don't do it. Late schedules due to insufficient briefing time are their problem, not yours!
Last edited by Agaricus bisporus; 18th Feb 2008 at 19:12.