BA 747 rostering
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sickBocks
So you are saying that to get command is completely a matter of seniority irrelevant of fleet as long as a vacancy exists you can go to left seat - even if you never flew the type before (of course this happens in many airlines taking Direct Entry Captains)
Would there be any instance whereby it would be quicker, as you say, to sit 7 years on RHS of 400, go to LHS 320 and then through seniority be able to bid back to the LHS of the 400 (or equivalent) at a later stage rather than just sit and wait your turn on the 400.
Is it genuine that command time will drop on the LH fleet in the future or is this just "pie in the sky". Of course for some guys command isn't a priority and for others it is but just trying to get a realistic picture.
So you are saying that to get command is completely a matter of seniority irrelevant of fleet as long as a vacancy exists you can go to left seat - even if you never flew the type before (of course this happens in many airlines taking Direct Entry Captains)
Would there be any instance whereby it would be quicker, as you say, to sit 7 years on RHS of 400, go to LHS 320 and then through seniority be able to bid back to the LHS of the 400 (or equivalent) at a later stage rather than just sit and wait your turn on the 400.
Is it genuine that command time will drop on the LH fleet in the future or is this just "pie in the sky". Of course for some guys command isn't a priority and for others it is but just trying to get a realistic picture.
Time to command in BA is determined by seniority alone.
Currently the most junior commands are at LGW (737 becoming Airbus) followed by the Airbus at LHR. LH commands are the most senior with the 777 being perhaps marginally more so than the 747 at present.
Which route you take to command depends on you to a large extent.
If say a LHR airbus command would take 10 years, it makes no difference if you say spent 10 yrs RHS 747 or 5 years RHS LHR Airbus followed by 5 years LHS LGW Airbus. Type changes are usually subject to a 4 yr freeze.
The difference is lifestyle.
Regards
Currently the most junior commands are at LGW (737 becoming Airbus) followed by the Airbus at LHR. LH commands are the most senior with the 777 being perhaps marginally more so than the 747 at present.
Which route you take to command depends on you to a large extent.
If say a LHR airbus command would take 10 years, it makes no difference if you say spent 10 yrs RHS 747 or 5 years RHS LHR Airbus followed by 5 years LHS LGW Airbus. Type changes are usually subject to a 4 yr freeze.
The difference is lifestyle.
Regards
Weekend trips are often more fun (junior captains and fos more to do downroute etc)
Hotel Mode Elderley 747 Captain here. You couldn't have had more fun than I did in HKG last week 
You don't have to be under 40 to enjoy this fleet..........Peeke hope to see you on line soon (strikes permitting ) and bring your golf clubs.............and "something for the weekend" 
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dj-M.75,
No matter what your previous experience, you will join at the bottom of the seniority list with 2 stripes and on pay point 1. Having larger jet time obviously makes you more suitable to go straight on to a longhaul fleet but other than that, I'm afraid you dont join any higher up the ladder.
No matter what your previous experience, you will join at the bottom of the seniority list with 2 stripes and on pay point 1. Having larger jet time obviously makes you more suitable to go straight on to a longhaul fleet but other than that, I'm afraid you dont join any higher up the ladder.
Junior trash
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Oi Hotel Mode Elderley 747 Captain here. You couldn't have had more fun than I did in HKG last week You don't have to be under 40 to enjoy this fleet
And it is impossible to have more fun than in HKG.
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I think there's some confusion as to BA's seniority list system.
When you join you are given a number in date of joining order about 3300 probably at the moment, this will get changed annually as people retire/leave so next year you might be 3250 etc etc. This is the only thing that matters for bidding to other fleets, so long as you are out of freeze and your seniority number is high enough you will get a course. Your seniority in your current fleet isnt relevent for this. There are guys 50 from the bottom of the 747 FO list who have commands this year because A320 commands at LGW are down to 2540 ish.
When you join you are given a number in date of joining order about 3300 probably at the moment, this will get changed annually as people retire/leave so next year you might be 3250 etc etc. This is the only thing that matters for bidding to other fleets, so long as you are out of freeze and your seniority number is high enough you will get a course. Your seniority in your current fleet isnt relevent for this. There are guys 50 from the bottom of the 747 FO list who have commands this year because A320 commands at LGW are down to 2540 ish.
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i've averaged 1 2man trip each month (JFK most often) 2 3 man (generally a 4 day and a 3 day) and 1 4man
What happens in a 3 or 4 man trip? who does what? Is one (or 2) of the FO's a 'cruise relief' pilot for the whole trip or is the handling for all the T/o and landing divvied out between all the FO's? Is it rostered before hand or does the captain decide who does what in the briefing room?
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Its rostered. You'll either be cruise pilot outbound or inbound, normally only 1 of the FOs will get a landing though. Often the Capts are generous and give both away. 4 man crews have 2 capts and 2 fos each working as a crew normally one crew operate out the other back.
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On the -400 there is a proper rest area with 2 bunks. On a 4-man, take an hour or so off the flight time and divide the remainder in 2, that's your rest.
It's not quite as good as it sounds always - try sleeping through turbulence! A long flight (HKG, GRU, SIN) can be very tiring. Your body clock gets shot to pieces after a few months. I'm quite fed up of listening to the wife snoring all night, then finally dropping off to be woken by the postman, binman etc etc.
It's not quite as good as it sounds always - try sleeping through turbulence! A long flight (HKG, GRU, SIN) can be very tiring. Your body clock gets shot to pieces after a few months. I'm quite fed up of listening to the wife snoring all night, then finally dropping off to be woken by the postman, binman etc etc.
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Other than what hotel mode has said the only difference is how much inflight rest you get in the bunks, 2 man, obviously none and those routes are limited to sectors of up to around 7-8 hrs.
3 man, the majority of trips on the jumbo, gives you around 3-3.5 hrs rest,the "heavy" crew member usually taking the first break from shortly after t/o and then on duty for the rest of the flight until around an hour before landing when the operating crew take over again for the landing.
4 man, at the moment HKG, SIN, GRU, BKK only, 2 full crews, its up to the operating crew exactly how they want to work the rest but its usually around 6hrs rest for each crew.
Who does what is all rostered and you soon get a personel preference as to whether or not you prefer being heavy inbound or outbound, that said its not uncommon for guys to swap around at the briefing stage.
3 man, the majority of trips on the jumbo, gives you around 3-3.5 hrs rest,the "heavy" crew member usually taking the first break from shortly after t/o and then on duty for the rest of the flight until around an hour before landing when the operating crew take over again for the landing.
4 man, at the moment HKG, SIN, GRU, BKK only, 2 full crews, its up to the operating crew exactly how they want to work the rest but its usually around 6hrs rest for each crew.
Who does what is all rostered and you soon get a personel preference as to whether or not you prefer being heavy inbound or outbound, that said its not uncommon for guys to swap around at the briefing stage.
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Hi guys
Can anyone just clarify - are the routes for 744 and 777 very similar or do they vary quite significantly?
And with regards to overtime, how easy it is to get an overtime trip? Heard a rumour you can log on somewhere and just drag and drop....
I've got the sim stage in a month so really keen on passing it - over 2000hrs so looking like 744 or 777 perhaps?? so any info would help massively!
Cheers
Can anyone just clarify - are the routes for 744 and 777 very similar or do they vary quite significantly?
And with regards to overtime, how easy it is to get an overtime trip? Heard a rumour you can log on somewhere and just drag and drop....
I've got the sim stage in a month so really keen on passing it - over 2000hrs so looking like 744 or 777 perhaps?? so any info would help massively!
Cheers
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The Heavy refers to the extra pilot in the cruise.
The big difference between the 747 and 777 is that the 777 out of a fleet of 47 only has 15 aircraft with bunks, only some of which have first class. This will increase with the 4 new orders but as all 57 747s have bunks they will be the mainstay of the Long range trips (10hrs ish +) until the 380s and 787s arrive in 2012. The 777 has some nice work in the Caribbean and SIN SYD if you like that but you wont see much of either at the bottom of the list.
The other big plus on the 747 is seeded blind lines. This means that although at the first stage your roster is blank to be filled up by rostering after everyone elses bids, there is one (long range) trip already there. This guarantees your days off either side so are perfect for that vital weekend when you're too junior to get it off any other way. The 777 just has blank blind lines so you've really got no say in your eventual roster at all.
The drag and dropping of open trips is coming in in the next few months so we dont really know the details yet.
The big difference between the 747 and 777 is that the 777 out of a fleet of 47 only has 15 aircraft with bunks, only some of which have first class. This will increase with the 4 new orders but as all 57 747s have bunks they will be the mainstay of the Long range trips (10hrs ish +) until the 380s and 787s arrive in 2012. The 777 has some nice work in the Caribbean and SIN SYD if you like that but you wont see much of either at the bottom of the list.
The other big plus on the 747 is seeded blind lines. This means that although at the first stage your roster is blank to be filled up by rostering after everyone elses bids, there is one (long range) trip already there. This guarantees your days off either side so are perfect for that vital weekend when you're too junior to get it off any other way. The 777 just has blank blind lines so you've really got no say in your eventual roster at all.
The drag and dropping of open trips is coming in in the next few months so we dont really know the details yet.
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Heavy is the term given to the extra crew members, usually the extra first officer but in the case of a 4 man crew the heavy would refer to the extra capt and fo.
inbound/outbound was refering to in or out of london.
everybody is different, but most people cant for example sleep for 3 hrs at 7pm, which is what you would be trying to do if you were heavy on say the early Jo'burg, or at midday on a USA west coast.
I dont mind being heavy on daylight sectors out of the uk, but on night sectors middle or last break will break the flight up a bit and usually give me a better chance of sleeping.
Some guys like last break into LHR because they may have a longdrive home etc etc.
Everyones different and you will soon learn what suits you and try and bid for trips accordingly.
As for destinations, east coast of the USA they both do a bit, with the 74 doing the majority of the JFK.
The 744 does all the major cities, SFO, LAX,HKG,SIN,CPT,JNB,GRU etc and apart from SIN for the time being the 777 does none of these. Its hard to pick up a 74 roster without at least one of these destinatiions on it. The 777 has some great LGW beach destinations and although it does do some nice cities eg. Shangai it also has alot of lower hour shorter trips like Tel aviv and kuwait so at the bottom of the seniority list you are unlikely to see some of these better destinations.
I'd say on average 4 trips a month for the 747 and 5 on the 777.
inbound/outbound was refering to in or out of london.
everybody is different, but most people cant for example sleep for 3 hrs at 7pm, which is what you would be trying to do if you were heavy on say the early Jo'burg, or at midday on a USA west coast.
I dont mind being heavy on daylight sectors out of the uk, but on night sectors middle or last break will break the flight up a bit and usually give me a better chance of sleeping.
Some guys like last break into LHR because they may have a longdrive home etc etc.
Everyones different and you will soon learn what suits you and try and bid for trips accordingly.
As for destinations, east coast of the USA they both do a bit, with the 74 doing the majority of the JFK.
The 744 does all the major cities, SFO, LAX,HKG,SIN,CPT,JNB,GRU etc and apart from SIN for the time being the 777 does none of these. Its hard to pick up a 74 roster without at least one of these destinatiions on it. The 777 has some great LGW beach destinations and although it does do some nice cities eg. Shangai it also has alot of lower hour shorter trips like Tel aviv and kuwait so at the bottom of the seniority list you are unlikely to see some of these better destinations.
I'd say on average 4 trips a month for the 747 and 5 on the 777.
Last edited by spoilers yellow; 6th Feb 2008 at 11:01.
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everybody is different, but most people cant for example sleep for 3 hrs at 7pm, which is what you would be trying to do if you were heavy on say the early Jo'burg, or at midday on a USA west coast.
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A few other matters,,
Hi guys,
About the 747 rostering, A few other matters not covered but important to many of us, Thankyou in advance
1-Can you fly part-time? for ie, 2 routes instead of 4 a month,
2-Which are the routes that after completing a way and return to base least affect you in terms of jet lag, maybe the African routes??
3-What is it with stby time, how far away can you be from airport, time, etc, and is it for a whole month a year?
4-How many days do you spend in a given destination, is it minimum rest? could you choose to spend more or less time at destination,
5-Maybe its mentioned, but to clarify, can they allocate you days off at destination ports?
6-Are there any go and return in the same day routes with the 747?
7-What are the routes which best allow you to commute with a minimum spending time/not sleeping the day before in the heathrow area, and are they difficult to bid? (any commuters can answer accordingly to this)
8-For similar reasons as the one before, say you have or bid a JFK, is there any chance of also bidding for the latest/earliest one of the day?
Now for a bit of time at the flightdeck
1- what is your general satisfaction from handling the 747, do you feel as if the SOPs let you handle alot of manual flying. Or is it very strict?
2-for f/o´s : Whats your GENERAL impression of skippers in BA, tough, easygoing, rather demanding, friendly ?
3-Hows the general mood in a long haul flights, is it relaxed, are you going to be on the mouth by others if you take out say a magazine or reading book?
other comments appreciated, thanks
B.F
[/B]
About the 747 rostering, A few other matters not covered but important to many of us, Thankyou in advance
1-Can you fly part-time? for ie, 2 routes instead of 4 a month,
2-Which are the routes that after completing a way and return to base least affect you in terms of jet lag, maybe the African routes??
3-What is it with stby time, how far away can you be from airport, time, etc, and is it for a whole month a year?
4-How many days do you spend in a given destination, is it minimum rest? could you choose to spend more or less time at destination,
5-Maybe its mentioned, but to clarify, can they allocate you days off at destination ports?
6-Are there any go and return in the same day routes with the 747?
7-What are the routes which best allow you to commute with a minimum spending time/not sleeping the day before in the heathrow area, and are they difficult to bid? (any commuters can answer accordingly to this)
8-For similar reasons as the one before, say you have or bid a JFK, is there any chance of also bidding for the latest/earliest one of the day?
Now for a bit of time at the flightdeck
1- what is your general satisfaction from handling the 747, do you feel as if the SOPs let you handle alot of manual flying. Or is it very strict?
2-for f/o´s : Whats your GENERAL impression of skippers in BA, tough, easygoing, rather demanding, friendly ?
3-Hows the general mood in a long haul flights, is it relaxed, are you going to be on the mouth by others if you take out say a magazine or reading book?
other comments appreciated, thanks
B.F
[/B]