Cityjet Recruitment Ban

[CamelhAir]

I seem the recall that recently IALPA tried to organise the cityjet pilots. Unfortunately the company offered a payrise and the effort came to nothing. I predicted at the time that your inability to learn from the ryanair experience would cost you. And so it has.
When the hell will pilots learn that being bought off with illusory payrises is no compensation for being effectectively organised? You got some money, but your conditions are being destroyed. A la ryr. You were bought off, blinded and sucker punched.
Management knew this was coming when offering you the money, the sole aim of which was no doubt to make IALPA go away. Regrettably you played along and were too stupid to learn from the experience of the big company on your doorstep.
I hope you see the light now and this is the straw that breaks the camels back.
I also hope the non-paris pilots get involved too. Surely having seen what's happened, you can't be so stupid as to think you'll be safe from some other threat. Divide and conquer works if you don't take steps to prevent. You have created another ryr by blind unwillingness to learn.
The best of luck in organising a union asap. And if you are not taking such steps, WHY NOT??

[cityworld]

base change

this is nor,al practice in cityjet for years the french based cabin crew were always payed a higher salary than the dub base cabin crew and the dub based cabin crew spent anything up to five nights per week in cdg and elsewhere while these people had the pleasure of going to there homes every night to be with their familys.a number of years ago the chief pilot and the head of cabin crew came to cdg to tell the dub base crew that there was no more work in dub as the companys network was being restructured we accepted this and got on with it .But this occasion you people have the opportunity to still be in cdg and ory more than you are now the package that you are being offered is quite good and you have helth care which the dub base crew never had it payed by the company so quit moaning if you dont like it france is a big country with huge opportunities go and change your career and stop moaning

[cityworld]

the pilots were two afraid to stand up to the management so they made their bed so lie on it what can they expect

[cityworld]

cabin crew are being treated like that as the attitude is they are two a penny they only have to go to spain or anywhere else in europe as the money cityjet pay is more than they can earn in their country.very soon the pilots will be treated the same they will just get more americans to fill the seats behind the wheels wait and see

[cityworld]

you must be asleep unity in cityjet between crews never i was there for years they are all talk and you sound the same

[gobsmack3d]

Hey, that's real sweet Ciyworld.....
You're right, moaning sucks-and you don't sound at all like a moaner.....
You don't sound at all bitter either

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion, only I wonder would you say the same if you ever found yourself tangled up in a situation similar to what these guys are going through right now?

[cityworld]

we were in that situation

hi gobsmack3d
our situation was worse as i was in cityjet when investors came and went like the weather and our jobs we never really knew what was happening sometimes.
In dublin we often commuted to cdg for work and didnt return for five or six days i was paying a mortgage for a place i hardly ever used i classed the holiday inn in roissy as home but we made the most of it we partyd hard and did stuff when we were off and went to see places the company is requesting you to move to dublin or lcy if you want but if you choose the option to commute its not that bad either ........
hey its the airline industry changes happen get used to it i did and made the most of it these people are being given a good offer but if they look at the bigger picture they will be home in cdg just as much as they are now they are not being realistic.
your roster will involve you starting from dublin on day 1 and finishing in dublin on day 4 or five but more than likely all of your night stops will be in cdg and hey this is home for these people that are moaning possibly it may involve you having to stay one to two nights a month in dublin or london are these daft people thinking at all because the majority of your work is from cdg .for this inconvenience they are being offered up to 15k a year extra for moving for the first year.
hey......... tell them to get over it or get out as life is too short to be miserable

[gobsmack3d]

Cityworld, I was also in CJ back when the Holiday Inn was our second home
There are a few details of this "commuting" option you may not be aware of, things have changed a lot since then...
Commuting does not guarantee nightstops in Paris, there is a proposed roster pattern of 6 on 3 off with nightstops in CDG which in one of the communications meetings was described as "theoretical" by the big man himself. It looks like the plan is to move CJ out of Paris altogether.
Also, dont forget that these guys were told they would have to make a decision within days of the changes being announced and that they would have to move to either Dub or Lcy before January, although there had been roumors circulating for months which indicates that this is not a last-minute decision....
You might remember that this isn't the first time (FLR base?)
If I tried to desribe to you how bad the treatment (of the cabin crew and pilots especially) has been in the last years, I wouldn't even know where to begin.. Cliques, favoritism, discriminaton...
All I'm saying is it's easy to judge from the outside.
We all make our own beds, that's true, but just look at the big picture...

[cityworld]

hi gobsmack3d

sounds like they are making life hell since i left which was only this year.
im still in the industry and heard last april or may that this was happening a bit mean of them to give such short notice i think anyway.maybe we flew together and back then things were ba d sounds like they are worse now .But i dont mean to sound negative these people are going to go ahead with the change anyway they dont and never have given a s**t about anybody so good luck im just glad to say im gone

[spilldbeans]

how bad exactly

Hello City, just to give you an idea

cliques, favouritism, discrimination...

Here's how bad...:

-Not so recently a procedure was put in place requiring all crew to report directly to the a/c. This essentially ruled out the chance of a proper pre-flight brief for the cc. A report was sent in to the FSO who brought it to the attention of the cc boss in DUB (lets call her the Queen) highlighting the safety issue. She in turn forwarded this to the cc Manager in CDG
(we ll call her the Princess) asking her to investigate.
A memeo was issued asking cabin supervisors to limit briefings to "essential info", keep it short and ensure it is done IN THE CREW BUS(!!!!)
The ensuing investigation was comprised of "subtle" questioning in CDG and some speculation between Qeen and Princess on WHO MADE THE REPORT- because thats whats important; Briefings still rare on early morning flights in cdg...

-What about the supervisor who has been accused countless times by numerous people-including other supervisors and line checkers-of bullying crews and has never had any consequences? On the contrary, any such report is efficiently burried and any "internal investigation" without fail has concluded that the bullied party should be severely reprimanded for making "unsubstantiated claims". Quite obviously this supervisor is a member of court, therefore untouchable.We all expect her to be promoted soon.

-What about the aspiring line-checker/member of court, who frequently sends the Princess reports marked "Private and Confidential" bringing to her attention such important issues as "I saw the grooming instructor wearing a big necklace" and so-and-so called sick but I know they werent"
You would think a reprimand would be appropriate for such unethical behaviour-after all, if you're going to report a colleague you should have the nuts to do it openly? Not in this company.
Instead, this person is always thanked for the valuable info.
You see, just as Medieval times, the Princess relies on her snitches so she can in turn score points with the Queen..
Ratting is seen as the ultimate path to promotion- ethics.

-What about hte company policy on sick pay:"up to seven days paid sick leave unless you are a friend of Her Royal Highness in which case you will never be deducted" Fact.

-What about the Captain who got sick on a flight and reported it might have been water contamination?
Not only was the report never investigated but an order was sent straight away from the queen to the Ch.P to "sort this guy out asap"

-What about the queenbee in Rostering, who after years of late rosters, mistakes,complaints and reports still has her arse (and a huge one at that) firmly glued to her seat and receives bonuses year-in year-out?
She is also training each newbie in her department nipping any chance of future improvement at the bud

I could go on and on but I think you get it.
Take CityJetUnions advice and stay away.
For your own sake, you dont want to work for these people, believe me.
I turned my back to this company recently and I am so much better off for it.
Gobsmack3d is right: You dont want to find yourself in these peoples shoes.

Take care,
S.

[Teddy Robinson]

Think "Spilld" has hit the nail squarely on the head, in fact there is much left out. It's bad, really bad, and getting worse by all accounts .. AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE ... as for any london city based flight deck, .. Join BALPA, individually fast: if you get singled out for "special treatment" their links with IALPA are worthwhile, and tangible.

[cityworld]

my god

hi spill d beans
my god it really has gone to the dogs literally a few years ago it was agreat place to work great fun in cdg and in the nice base we had a ball but the bullying needs to stop and has to stop has the cabin crew thought of one of the unions to represent them.
they really need it i worked in ryanair years ago to and this never happened does the head of cabin crew who really is the head of training and standards who is based in dublin fly anymore she needs to get out there and see whats happening or does she care.the head of cabin crew line ops is just a title with no authority .i hear impact is a really good union but the cabin crew must unite in their decision and stick together before they were all chickens there is things you can do to make things better.the pre flight briefingsmy memory of them were big bullying sessions yet they still let an ifs keep her position when she failed her seps .

[spilldbeans]

Hi again,

…head of cabin crew line ops is just a title with no authority .

Not much official authority but believe me she has influence. She does her best to be perceived as the “innocent party” who just follows orders though she sneaks in her views whenever she can.

Does the head of training still fly? No, not for years. But believe me she knows what the story is. She sanctions it.

….in fact there is much left out

I’m never one to disappoint Teddy, so here’s another example which will also demonstrate the authority issue raised above:

- A junior cc who failed SEPs was put on training for C Supervisor. After the longest training in history, a failed line-check and a lot of recommendations to take him off training altogether, he was not only promoted, but also considered to be the best candidate for an upcoming Flight Safety Officer position….
Might it have something to do with the fact that this guy is a very close friend and one-time houseguest of the Princess herself? Hmmmm


Uhhh… bag open, beans EVERYWHERE!!!!

I see your point about a union like IMPACT but the things I’m talking about are so well covered and subtle it wouldn’t help, its just easier to walk away and give your hard earned experience as advice to those who are thinking about joining.

And one question:
Is it true that they have engineers on flights counting noise levels in the cabin?
Does it have anything to do with the line-checker who had her ears destroyed on the 146?
(another hush-hush thing that was going on when I left -Have they got her to resign yet?)

Can anyone in Cityjet shed some light?

[gobsmack3d]

The ratters rise to the top of this organisation by hanging those who in many cases did nothing wrong and are then rewarded with promotions.

and

That culture has now infested every corner of the company

I might be missing something but arent you and spilld basically saying the same thing?

[cityworld]

the head of training has resigned

hey guys whats happening the head of training has resigned heard he was a sound guy are u lads moving to dublin whats happening with the cabin crew is the so called head of training flying yet ''''''''''''''or is she too lazy like the rest of the gimps that ran that department who never flew anyway jobs for the girls they hadnt a clue when i operated as 146 crew member

[Captain Greaser]

The reason this once proud ragtag outfit has no union is because the pilots themselves,in effect voted not to have one. All you guys had to do was return a ballot paper. U didn't even had to be a member. U could do it annonymousely. You didn't even had to do as I done. Be one of only 3 pilots who bothered to turn up at the IALPA meeting in Dublin. Hence I , who was allready earmarked,was bullied out into EasyJet. Thanks very much. Alot happier now. Now you guys who wouldn't stand up on your own behalfs expect the rest of us to "boycot recruiting"!!!! If you cant stand up to management,when the market is awash with jobs, what hope is there of you guys doing it in a recession. Are you men or mice????

[blackred1443]

couldn't agree more with mr. greaser.whats happened had been coming for a long time hence the reason so many left when they did recently.hardly a surprise!!.tho alot of sympathy goes to those that remain who did try to improve things.when it comes to cityjet management you can't expect much,and i use the word management quite loosely because all it appeared like to me was demonic bullying.as the saying goes all you can expect from an ass is a kick.if theres a pilot shortage of sorts now and people are still being treated like sh1t one can only imagine what will happen when the market turns again.its does make me wonder and i don't want to be rude but when things are that bad why people dont either change things or leave.surely its time for some serious crm or teamwork in cityjet and a change,thats permenantly going to make those that left wish they hadn't.it cant be that hard can it??having joined a company where managers can actually manage it makes me ever so appreciative of where i am now.for those left in cityjet,whats there to lose.even less now i would have thought since the last ialpa attempt

[ragnarok]

No need to worry they will be in for a ride in France and in the UK soon enough.

[PAPI-74]

I am thinking of coming over (Flight deck) but I get a really -ve feeling from Dublin when I call. No info on the terms, loosing C.V's 5 times, web site has incorrect STD's on it (if it indeed works).....if the little things are not taken care of, what happend to the big things.

In a nut-shell, I don't want to leave an OK first job on a TP for a load of hassle and grief. I am the sort who will be on the phone if I get pi##ed about too much (a bit goes with the job), so maybe if their reaction is back door punishment, I should take another opportunity.

What do you think?

[ragnarok]

"The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences." Winston Churchill