Do Some Pilots Earn Too Much?
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GUV,
Re: Steal bread from the mouths of UK/EU crewmembers...
Look Bub,
Atlas is a US Certificated Flag Air Carrier. As such the FAA has rules about who can fly the aircraft, where the aircraft must be registered, etc, etc.
The attempt by Chowdry to open a UK base, and to hire non-US certificated flight crews is nothing more than an effort to stop the US crews from LEGALLY ORGANIZING so as to better their pay and benefits and what not. From OUR perspective it is the "European scabs" who are trying to steal bread from OUR mouths...
Now then, how many US crewmembers are invited to join an EU/UK operation? Every ad that I see for an EU/UK operator requires that one have "right of abode" in the UK/EU.
Back when I was a "low timer", we used to have to compete for a very limited number of jobs with "Europeans" who came over here to learn to fly, and then who saw fit to over-stay their visas ( in direct contravention of the law) and work ILLEGALLY in the US as pilots. These folks were "sponsored" and could afford to work for FREE. My wages were artificially held down by the influence of these illegal workers, as were the wages of many of my friends. Now there would be NO FRIGGIN WAY that a reciprocal arrangement could happen because of the PROTECTIONIST policies of the UK/EU "socialist" states. Add to that the fact that the policies of the UK/EU serve to stifle the aviation industry and therefore limit the number of available jobs even further. You guys should revolt. We would never tolerate that kind of BS over here. (oh, I forgot, you can't revolt. Your government doesn't trust you to keep and bear arms)
I don't blame a kid from Norway or wherever from taking advantage of the non-enforcement of US law. But to hear you deride US crew members because they don't want "scabs" in their organization, driving their wages down (again) is just too damn much, especially considering that a UK/EU flight crew member has NO ENUMERATED RIGHT to employment with a US Certificated Air Carrier. (neither has a US pilot any enumerated right to employment with an EU/UK air carrier, but you conveniently fail to point that out).
Move to the US dude. We'd love to have you. Become a citizen. Pay taxes. Bitch all you want. Hang out and drink beer. Teach us darts and soccer and such. Fly for Atlas.
It is apparant to even the most casual of observers that you have never earned a living as a pilot. In fact, I would be very surprised to learn that you even held a Private Pilot's License.
One other thing. I have a very good friend who flys for American. He's a Brit. Super guy. He came here LEGALLY. He stayed here LEGALLY. He flew here LEGALLY. He paid the taxes with the rest of us. He worked hard. He flew junk like the rest of us. He flew in the heat and the cold and when hungry and all the rest. Now he has the golden ring. He is an inspiration.
You should just shut up. You're an idiot.
Re: Steal bread from the mouths of UK/EU crewmembers...
Look Bub,
Atlas is a US Certificated Flag Air Carrier. As such the FAA has rules about who can fly the aircraft, where the aircraft must be registered, etc, etc.
The attempt by Chowdry to open a UK base, and to hire non-US certificated flight crews is nothing more than an effort to stop the US crews from LEGALLY ORGANIZING so as to better their pay and benefits and what not. From OUR perspective it is the "European scabs" who are trying to steal bread from OUR mouths...
Now then, how many US crewmembers are invited to join an EU/UK operation? Every ad that I see for an EU/UK operator requires that one have "right of abode" in the UK/EU.
Back when I was a "low timer", we used to have to compete for a very limited number of jobs with "Europeans" who came over here to learn to fly, and then who saw fit to over-stay their visas ( in direct contravention of the law) and work ILLEGALLY in the US as pilots. These folks were "sponsored" and could afford to work for FREE. My wages were artificially held down by the influence of these illegal workers, as were the wages of many of my friends. Now there would be NO FRIGGIN WAY that a reciprocal arrangement could happen because of the PROTECTIONIST policies of the UK/EU "socialist" states. Add to that the fact that the policies of the UK/EU serve to stifle the aviation industry and therefore limit the number of available jobs even further. You guys should revolt. We would never tolerate that kind of BS over here. (oh, I forgot, you can't revolt. Your government doesn't trust you to keep and bear arms)
I don't blame a kid from Norway or wherever from taking advantage of the non-enforcement of US law. But to hear you deride US crew members because they don't want "scabs" in their organization, driving their wages down (again) is just too damn much, especially considering that a UK/EU flight crew member has NO ENUMERATED RIGHT to employment with a US Certificated Air Carrier. (neither has a US pilot any enumerated right to employment with an EU/UK air carrier, but you conveniently fail to point that out).
Move to the US dude. We'd love to have you. Become a citizen. Pay taxes. Bitch all you want. Hang out and drink beer. Teach us darts and soccer and such. Fly for Atlas.
It is apparant to even the most casual of observers that you have never earned a living as a pilot. In fact, I would be very surprised to learn that you even held a Private Pilot's License.
One other thing. I have a very good friend who flys for American. He's a Brit. Super guy. He came here LEGALLY. He stayed here LEGALLY. He flew here LEGALLY. He paid the taxes with the rest of us. He worked hard. He flew junk like the rest of us. He flew in the heat and the cold and when hungry and all the rest. Now he has the golden ring. He is an inspiration.
You should just shut up. You're an idiot.
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Wrong again Guv, please do dig up the thread. Never thought of taking bread from anyones mouth. Just making demands of an employer to be a responsible employer, ermm, something you have yet to do. 
Happiness is a warm L10-11. Unless the final destination is the melting pot. Up in smoke they go!!!
Nope, not TWA either, they hit the jackpot if you ask me.
Happiness is a warm L10-11. Unless the final destination is the melting pot. Up in smoke they go!!!
Nope, not TWA either, they hit the jackpot if you ask me.
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One more thing.
Perhaps you've been missing the twice weekly "How do I get a green card?" threads started on this forum. Land of the free, home of the brave buddy. Not the land of the fee's and the home of some guy named dave... Ain't nuttin like it!!!! 
Oh please! BWahahahahahahahahahahaa, oh I can't breath, snort. chortle cough, gag, bwahaaaahahaha, oh you're killing me, stop,hahaha ha
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">I'd say there will be a great lack of sympathy to you - and those that think like you - on this side of the pond.</font>
Oh please! BWahahahahahahahahahahaa, oh I can't breath, snort. chortle cough, gag, bwahaaaahahaha, oh you're killing me, stop,hahaha haGuest
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MachOverSpeed - The rules this side of the pond are simple - UK airlines can lease in foreign registered aircraft for six months then they are supposed to go onto the UK register (unless there is some overwhelming reason not to do so). There is also a very strict limit on the proportion of foreign to UK registered aircraft that can be operated.
Atlas therefore had/has to set up a UK operation - which is then required to obey the various regulations (employment, licencing, etc) in force - which means that UK/EU nationals get employed in preference to non UK/EU nationals - same as you have in the States.
Getting an aircraft on the UK register is not an easy thing - it's very expensive and time consuming. If the Atlas crew member's paranoid fantasies were in any way true, then Atlas would not only have to reregister all their aircraft in the UK; but they would also have to have sufficient crews here to operate them as I'd assume you guys would all be on strike, wouldn't you?
So, unless AACS has say 100 fully typed and current crews just hanging around twiddling their thumbs, it isn't going to happen. This deal is strictly for BA - and to suggest anything else is laughable!!
Moving on - if the pilots to which you allude were 'sponsored' then they weren't illegal, then, were they?
Petergozinya - why on earth would I want a green card if I had to deal with people like you on a regular basis? - it's bad enough that you Yanks think that Paris is in Texas; Reading is in Pennsylvania and Newark is in New Jersey!
At least when we have an election it's free, fair, equitable and we know who wins....
Atlas therefore had/has to set up a UK operation - which is then required to obey the various regulations (employment, licencing, etc) in force - which means that UK/EU nationals get employed in preference to non UK/EU nationals - same as you have in the States.
Getting an aircraft on the UK register is not an easy thing - it's very expensive and time consuming. If the Atlas crew member's paranoid fantasies were in any way true, then Atlas would not only have to reregister all their aircraft in the UK; but they would also have to have sufficient crews here to operate them as I'd assume you guys would all be on strike, wouldn't you?
So, unless AACS has say 100 fully typed and current crews just hanging around twiddling their thumbs, it isn't going to happen. This deal is strictly for BA - and to suggest anything else is laughable!!
Moving on - if the pilots to which you allude were 'sponsored' then they weren't illegal, then, were they?
Petergozinya - why on earth would I want a green card if I had to deal with people like you on a regular basis?
- it's bad enough that you Yanks think that Paris is in Texas; Reading is in Pennsylvania and Newark is in New Jersey!At least when we have an election it's free, fair, equitable and we know who wins....
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GUV,
Where have YOU been and what have you been smoking?
Atlas has been flying into/out of the UK for years. It was only AFTER the Atlas guys tried to start a union that Chowdry filed for a UK Operating Certificate and began hiring for the Stanstead base. Strictly a "union busting" move. I have several friends working there....all have advised me NOT to accept employment for the Stanstead base (can I even DO that, legally I mean). It really doesn't matter. I'm NEVER going to take a job where I would be considered a SCAB by the other pilots anyway.
As for the so-called "sponsored" pilots. Who was sponsoring them? Certainly not a US FAR 135 air carrier. I KNOW, I WAS THERE. They were sponsored by their home governments in many cases. Several I know of were receiving stipends from their home governments. They told me so. In fact, I saw the US Immigration Service arrest three of them one dark and stormy night in LBB. No "green cards" and no visas. The Immigration Service had come to the airport to meet the sheriff who had several Mexican detainees. By pure accident of timing these French guys came in and, their being FRENCH (sic), the Border Patrol asked to see their work permits and visas. Off to jail they go. Good riddance!
Oh yeah, we've been having ELECTIONS here for a long time. Since you guys had a king. We get the BBC here and we are all very aware of the superior moral/ethical/fair standards of UK government and it's practices and policies. Not to mention the THOUGHTFUL electoral habits of the UK populace. NON SEQUITUR. Question: are there any folks in Britain who make a living by blowing things out of proportion and making scandalous accusations? FLOOD STREET? I will admit that, being fair, we most likely both get a fair laugh out of the machinations of the others press and government (and our own). Fair enough. Assholes are a universal condition. We suffer them. Bummer!
Oh well, enough of this. I'm going to the RIFLE RANGE tomorrow morning to practice my marksmanship. Need to get a good nights sleep. Blurry eyes don't hit the X ring.
Where have YOU been and what have you been smoking?
Atlas has been flying into/out of the UK for years. It was only AFTER the Atlas guys tried to start a union that Chowdry filed for a UK Operating Certificate and began hiring for the Stanstead base. Strictly a "union busting" move. I have several friends working there....all have advised me NOT to accept employment for the Stanstead base (can I even DO that, legally I mean). It really doesn't matter. I'm NEVER going to take a job where I would be considered a SCAB by the other pilots anyway.
As for the so-called "sponsored" pilots. Who was sponsoring them? Certainly not a US FAR 135 air carrier. I KNOW, I WAS THERE. They were sponsored by their home governments in many cases. Several I know of were receiving stipends from their home governments. They told me so. In fact, I saw the US Immigration Service arrest three of them one dark and stormy night in LBB. No "green cards" and no visas. The Immigration Service had come to the airport to meet the sheriff who had several Mexican detainees. By pure accident of timing these French guys came in and, their being FRENCH (sic), the Border Patrol asked to see their work permits and visas. Off to jail they go. Good riddance!
Oh yeah, we've been having ELECTIONS here for a long time. Since you guys had a king. We get the BBC here and we are all very aware of the superior moral/ethical/fair standards of UK government and it's practices and policies. Not to mention the THOUGHTFUL electoral habits of the UK populace. NON SEQUITUR. Question: are there any folks in Britain who make a living by blowing things out of proportion and making scandalous accusations? FLOOD STREET? I will admit that, being fair, we most likely both get a fair laugh out of the machinations of the others press and government (and our own). Fair enough. Assholes are a universal condition. We suffer them. Bummer!
Oh well, enough of this. I'm going to the RIFLE RANGE tomorrow morning to practice my marksmanship. Need to get a good nights sleep. Blurry eyes don't hit the X ring.
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Hello Guvnor,
Are you the man who is starting up caledoninan wings with the ex-delta L1011's?
If so can you shed any light on this because I have been reading in my local scottish newspaper that you indeed do not have the financial backing to start up such a company.
I would appreciate if you are this person to dispel any rumours regarding your financial situation so that the public and indeed the people who will look for jobs with you do not get hidden promises which seems to me to be the way of the aviation world these days.
And if you are for real......give us a job!!!!!!!
Cheers'n'Happy Landings
_____________________________
PIK Handling is no good
Execair Handling is far better
______________________________
Are you the man who is starting up caledoninan wings with the ex-delta L1011's?
If so can you shed any light on this because I have been reading in my local scottish newspaper that you indeed do not have the financial backing to start up such a company.
I would appreciate if you are this person to dispel any rumours regarding your financial situation so that the public and indeed the people who will look for jobs with you do not get hidden promises which seems to me to be the way of the aviation world these days.
And if you are for real......give us a job!!!!!!!
Cheers'n'Happy Landings
_____________________________
PIK Handling is no good
Execair Handling is far better
______________________________
Guest
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Deeko01 - can I take it you read the Sunday Mail - a rag that along with its stablemate the Daily Record requires its readers to (a) believe Elvis is still alive; (bb) have an IQ lower than that of foom temperature; and (c) complete belief in whatever they tell their readers? That particular sorry tale was written by a journo with no investigative abilities who was fed the story by Freeboot (aka Who?, Whoring Around, Freenum etc etc).
When the CalWings operations start next year then obviously we will have the requisite financing in place - as is required in every case by the CAA. Nice shiny refurbished L1011s are not exactly something we can get with a few Kellogs Cornflakes box tops, so I think you'll be able to discount tales of no money.
Just think - you'll be able to fly scheduled services from Scotland on a Scots owned airline with aircraft that originate from a company founded by Scots and which operates from an airport which is owned by Scots!
See you, Jimmy!
MachOverspeed - there's a great deal of difference between Atlas flying into and out of the UK on behalf of non-UK carriers and doing it for BA. The unions here (BALPA, and to a much greater extent, the IPA) have long had campaigns against 'flagging out'.
As for the 'sponsored' pilots, I was going on what you wrote there - the INS definition of 'sponsored' means that they have had sureties issued by US companies who guarantee their behaviour, their financial condition and that they will leave the country on the termination of their work/visa validity.
I envy you the rifle range - had to leave my Sig P226, Sites Spectre, HK MP5 and G3 back in Africa.
When the CalWings operations start next year then obviously we will have the requisite financing in place - as is required in every case by the CAA. Nice shiny refurbished L1011s are not exactly something we can get with a few Kellogs Cornflakes box tops, so I think you'll be able to discount tales of no money.
Just think - you'll be able to fly scheduled services from Scotland on a Scots owned airline with aircraft that originate from a company founded by Scots and which operates from an airport which is owned by Scots!
See you, Jimmy!
MachOverspeed - there's a great deal of difference between Atlas flying into and out of the UK on behalf of non-UK carriers and doing it for BA. The unions here (BALPA, and to a much greater extent, the IPA) have long had campaigns against 'flagging out'.
As for the 'sponsored' pilots, I was going on what you wrote there - the INS definition of 'sponsored' means that they have had sureties issued by US companies who guarantee their behaviour, their financial condition and that they will leave the country on the termination of their work/visa validity.
I envy you the rifle range - had to leave my Sig P226, Sites Spectre, HK MP5 and G3 back in Africa.
Guest
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GUV,
Thats the WHOLE POINT. They DIDN'T go home when they were supposed to. They came to the US on a "student" visa (no work permit). Then, after finishing flight school, they would "pad" their log book about a thousand hours and go out and fly FAR 135 night freight in Barons or 401's or Aztecs or whatever FOR FREE. Meanwhile, we were TRYING TO EARN A LIVING. Even the most dim witted of persons can see that when a job market is flooded by FREE LABOR that the wages of those who ACTUALLY GET PAID will be driven down.
The employers who utilized this free labor pool thought they were getting a deal. In reality though it cost them a ton of money. The morons flying their planes didn't actually have the experience, and their mis-handling and mis-operation of the aircraft caused HUGE maintenance bills.
I once saw a Baron at DAL power through standing water almost a foot and a half deep. The props threw water almost as high as the tail of a 727. I just sat there, picturing in my mind the crankshafts of those old IO-520's flexing as the props hit water while pulling 25 inches of manifold pressure...Sure enough, when I got to Dalfort there were two "foreigners" sitting in the "doghouse", chattering along in some strange language. Knowing that those two idiots would probably never say anything about what they had done, and in so doing endanger the next guy who would fly the plane, I called their Chief Pilot and told him what I had seen. He thanked me profusely.
On to Atlas... There is a great difference in a plane "passing through" an airport as it circumnavigates the globe, and in an aircraft "basing" at an airport. Now, why would Chowdry attempt to base an aircraft at a "foreign" base, with all the attendant costs of getting a new certificate, complying with all the new rules, dealing with the foreign labor standards, etc, etc? What's the point? Atlas is a US carrier. Based in the US, with a US certificate, operating US registered aircraft. What possible reason would there be to base at Stanstead? As an ACMI operator, Atlas has more charter work than they can possibly do servicing the US military alone. They have experienced huge growth, and must turn away work because they can't meet the demand. Why increase your costs and frustrations by going outside a proven business model? I'll tell you why. UNION BUSTING!!!
I wish we could meet face to face. I would bet you $100 cash that when the union finally does go through, Atlas will drop Stanstead like a hot potato. Hide and watch dude, hide and watch.
Hey, did you own those firearms? Just wondering. I've got an accurized AR15. Full length bull barrel. Chrome bore and chamber. AK74 muzzle brake. 1/4 MOA iron sights and a drop-compensated scope. Its a "tack driver", easily shooting 1/2 inch groups at a hundred yards from the bench. Maybe better with match-grade ammo. Not bad for a semi-auto rifle. Its an exact copy of the rifle that won Camp Perry two years running.
Thats the WHOLE POINT. They DIDN'T go home when they were supposed to. They came to the US on a "student" visa (no work permit). Then, after finishing flight school, they would "pad" their log book about a thousand hours and go out and fly FAR 135 night freight in Barons or 401's or Aztecs or whatever FOR FREE. Meanwhile, we were TRYING TO EARN A LIVING. Even the most dim witted of persons can see that when a job market is flooded by FREE LABOR that the wages of those who ACTUALLY GET PAID will be driven down.
The employers who utilized this free labor pool thought they were getting a deal. In reality though it cost them a ton of money. The morons flying their planes didn't actually have the experience, and their mis-handling and mis-operation of the aircraft caused HUGE maintenance bills.
I once saw a Baron at DAL power through standing water almost a foot and a half deep. The props threw water almost as high as the tail of a 727. I just sat there, picturing in my mind the crankshafts of those old IO-520's flexing as the props hit water while pulling 25 inches of manifold pressure...Sure enough, when I got to Dalfort there were two "foreigners" sitting in the "doghouse", chattering along in some strange language. Knowing that those two idiots would probably never say anything about what they had done, and in so doing endanger the next guy who would fly the plane, I called their Chief Pilot and told him what I had seen. He thanked me profusely.
On to Atlas... There is a great difference in a plane "passing through" an airport as it circumnavigates the globe, and in an aircraft "basing" at an airport. Now, why would Chowdry attempt to base an aircraft at a "foreign" base, with all the attendant costs of getting a new certificate, complying with all the new rules, dealing with the foreign labor standards, etc, etc? What's the point? Atlas is a US carrier. Based in the US, with a US certificate, operating US registered aircraft. What possible reason would there be to base at Stanstead? As an ACMI operator, Atlas has more charter work than they can possibly do servicing the US military alone. They have experienced huge growth, and must turn away work because they can't meet the demand. Why increase your costs and frustrations by going outside a proven business model? I'll tell you why. UNION BUSTING!!!
I wish we could meet face to face. I would bet you $100 cash that when the union finally does go through, Atlas will drop Stanstead like a hot potato. Hide and watch dude, hide and watch.
Hey, did you own those firearms? Just wondering. I've got an accurized AR15. Full length bull barrel. Chrome bore and chamber. AK74 muzzle brake. 1/4 MOA iron sights and a drop-compensated scope. Its a "tack driver", easily shooting 1/2 inch groups at a hundred yards from the bench. Maybe better with match-grade ammo. Not bad for a semi-auto rifle. Its an exact copy of the rifle that won Camp Perry two years running.
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Guv, now I'll hold my hand up high as a bloke that regularly rips the piss out of your plans – however, on this we’re united.
These septics haven’t quite grasped the concept of globalisation, as in – duh, ever heard of Ford ? Yeah, well guess what ? They build loads of cars in Europe, and indeed all around the world, with no, repeat NO, crap from the USA unions (e.g. the Teamsters – a right bunch of thugs, by any other name !) – and I’m right when I say that it (i.e. Ford), along with some other HUGE USA based multinationals, participate on a vast scale (i.e. even bigger sometimes than their USA activities) in business offshore from the USA mainland.
Now certainly if Atlas were ‘my’ company I’d ship the whole thing lock-stock-and-two-smoking-barrels offshore from the USA – just to prove that I could do it – it’s called being the boss, and it never pays to forget that everybody is expendable – and especially jumped out of their pram prima donna Atlas mainline pilots.
So, want some free advice ? It’d be to wind in yer kneck lads, and give your boss no cause to move the bulk of the company overseas (don’t forget that he’s already started do it! ) ; and please renounce any ideas that the shareholders would be on your side, because they’d love him for it - it’d increase their profits. Why ? Because he'd have reduced the operating costs, and they'd no longer have the threat of having to cowtow down to the extortion that your union would / plans to inflict upon the company when they stamp their foot and start shouting about your ‘rights’.
Ok, time to go and look in the dictionary at the meanings of ‘protectionism’ in all it’s forms, and ‘union racketeering’.
Ps. I’ve got a lovely view of an Atlas B74 from my window here at Enterprise House, here at Stansted Airport, and oh, look, I can see the UK based crews walking out to it too – goodonya lads !
These septics haven’t quite grasped the concept of globalisation, as in – duh, ever heard of Ford ? Yeah, well guess what ? They build loads of cars in Europe, and indeed all around the world, with no, repeat NO, crap from the USA unions (e.g. the Teamsters – a right bunch of thugs, by any other name !) – and I’m right when I say that it (i.e. Ford), along with some other HUGE USA based multinationals, participate on a vast scale (i.e. even bigger sometimes than their USA activities) in business offshore from the USA mainland.
Now certainly if Atlas were ‘my’ company I’d ship the whole thing lock-stock-and-two-smoking-barrels offshore from the USA – just to prove that I could do it – it’s called being the boss, and it never pays to forget that everybody is expendable – and especially jumped out of their pram prima donna Atlas mainline pilots.
So, want some free advice ? It’d be to wind in yer kneck lads, and give your boss no cause to move the bulk of the company overseas (don’t forget that he’s already started do it! ) ; and please renounce any ideas that the shareholders would be on your side, because they’d love him for it - it’d increase their profits. Why ? Because he'd have reduced the operating costs, and they'd no longer have the threat of having to cowtow down to the extortion that your union would / plans to inflict upon the company when they stamp their foot and start shouting about your ‘rights’.
Ok, time to go and look in the dictionary at the meanings of ‘protectionism’ in all it’s forms, and ‘union racketeering’.
Ps. I’ve got a lovely view of an Atlas B74 from my window here at Enterprise House, here at Stansted Airport, and oh, look, I can see the UK based crews walking out to it too – goodonya lads !
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Okay!
Lets extend that logic...
Lets say some guy works as a fish head cutter-offer in nation X.
Nation X has regulations as to the certification of fish head cutting companies who base in their country.
The fish head cutter-offers try to unionize. The company counters by moving a SMALL part of their operation off shore. The currently employed fish head cutter-offers get pissed because the "offshore" workers are driving down their wages.
Let me ask this. If British Airways were to begin hiring Pakistani pilots (while excluding UK pilots) for a Pakistan base, and simultaneously had the Paks fly established BA routes (not basing out of Pakistan), how would YOU feel about it? Be honest.
Globalism is ok, until it starts costing YOU money.
As for Ford, et al. Ford, General Motors, Daimler-Chrysler, Exxon, Texas Instruments, Intel, Motorola, Dassault, Airbus, Boeing, etc are all MANUFACTURING companies. Airlines are SERVICE companies. Apples and oranges...
Tell ya what, whatever job YOU are working at right now, I'll send a bunch of foreigners to your town to do your job at one half the salary, then we'll see what you think. Never forget, the shoe ALWAYS drops, and the situation ALWAYS reverses. Give it time, my brother, and YOU will get a taste of what the Atlas guys are now feeling. It is inevitable. Then you should remember your previous statements and make a great personal effort at not being upset.
Anything less is intellectual dishonesty.
Lets extend that logic...
Lets say some guy works as a fish head cutter-offer in nation X.
Nation X has regulations as to the certification of fish head cutting companies who base in their country.
The fish head cutter-offers try to unionize. The company counters by moving a SMALL part of their operation off shore. The currently employed fish head cutter-offers get pissed because the "offshore" workers are driving down their wages.
Let me ask this. If British Airways were to begin hiring Pakistani pilots (while excluding UK pilots) for a Pakistan base, and simultaneously had the Paks fly established BA routes (not basing out of Pakistan), how would YOU feel about it? Be honest.
Globalism is ok, until it starts costing YOU money.
As for Ford, et al. Ford, General Motors, Daimler-Chrysler, Exxon, Texas Instruments, Intel, Motorola, Dassault, Airbus, Boeing, etc are all MANUFACTURING companies. Airlines are SERVICE companies. Apples and oranges...
Tell ya what, whatever job YOU are working at right now, I'll send a bunch of foreigners to your town to do your job at one half the salary, then we'll see what you think. Never forget, the shoe ALWAYS drops, and the situation ALWAYS reverses. Give it time, my brother, and YOU will get a taste of what the Atlas guys are now feeling. It is inevitable. Then you should remember your previous statements and make a great personal effort at not being upset.
Anything less is intellectual dishonesty.
Guest
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One other thing....
If you are of the opinion that the Teamsters are a "right bunch of thugs", then if I were you, I don't think I would say anything like that when I was interviewing with UPS... who HAVE been known to hire foreign pilots from time to time.
Of course, we all know of the superior moral/ethical standards of UK unions and how they have NEVER circumvented the law or employed "strong arm" tactics. No, they are as pure as the driven snow...
Yeah, the US, and its people and institutions and multi-national corporations are the nexus of world evil. If it is bad, it MUST be American. Yadda, yadda, yadda....
What a joke.
Dude...WE ARE PILOTS (aren't we?) We will ALL continue to get screwed until we stand together, across international boundaries. We share something which is trans-international. A love for the industry. What is good for me, surely MUST be good for you, in the long term. WHY WORK FOR LESS THAN YOU ARE WORTH? Don't you have to pass the same check ride as I? Wouldn't you rather compete with another pilot for a job based on experience, skill, ability and qualification, or would you rather be hired because you are just cheap labor?
Do you really want to be the LOWEST common denominator?
I'll bet NOT, if you are a Pilot! If you're NOT a Pilot, then your opinion doesn't matter anyway...
If you are of the opinion that the Teamsters are a "right bunch of thugs", then if I were you, I don't think I would say anything like that when I was interviewing with UPS... who HAVE been known to hire foreign pilots from time to time.
Of course, we all know of the superior moral/ethical standards of UK unions and how they have NEVER circumvented the law or employed "strong arm" tactics. No, they are as pure as the driven snow...
Yeah, the US, and its people and institutions and multi-national corporations are the nexus of world evil. If it is bad, it MUST be American. Yadda, yadda, yadda....
What a joke.
Dude...WE ARE PILOTS (aren't we?) We will ALL continue to get screwed until we stand together, across international boundaries. We share something which is trans-international. A love for the industry. What is good for me, surely MUST be good for you, in the long term. WHY WORK FOR LESS THAN YOU ARE WORTH? Don't you have to pass the same check ride as I? Wouldn't you rather compete with another pilot for a job based on experience, skill, ability and qualification, or would you rather be hired because you are just cheap labor?
Do you really want to be the LOWEST common denominator?
I'll bet NOT, if you are a Pilot! If you're NOT a Pilot, then your opinion doesn't matter anyway...
Guest
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Do I get paid too much Guv? Sh!t yeh! My small Company pays me squillions! Tax-free too!
Funny isnt it. It causes me to:
1. Be loyal to the Company in realistic ways
2. Be willing to live in a craphole country and not complain to the Company about all the sh!t and lack of infrastructure I have to put up with trying to get Company things done
3. Be willing to go that extra mile when commonsense dictates
4. Sort out Crewings mess on the spot
5. Sort out the CPs mess on the spot
6. Sort out aircraft changes on the spot
7. Offer to work when everybody else cant be bothered
8. Do office crap like organise overflight clearances etc
9. Fly very eficiently, and consciousley operating as economicaly as humanley possible, safetey permiting
10. Ensure our pax are happy no matter how many Company feet I have to tread on to do it
11. Get on and efectively laiase with management types who are the biggest pr**ks born
12. Help out with the operational problems the same pr**ks find too tough to solve
13. Help to load bags in the 737 holds myself if we are running late and we are short of loaders
14. Assist our engineers in holding open engine cowls, holding open start valves etc if they are short of personel while doing maintanence on my aircraft (or other aircraft if they catch me in the crew room!)
15. Solve cabin crew rostering messes!
16. Be a general Flight Operations dogsbody when things turn to crap
17. Do Sim checking back of the clock
18. Be a backup Line trainer on my days off
19. Be a backup Line checker on my days off
20. Work on days off without complaint
21. Work up to 20 days straight on minimum rest, again without complaint (theres no CAP371 here, only a lose agreement between pilots and management.)
22. Give management full discretion as to when I take annual leave and how many days at each go.
Of course I dont do each and every one of these things every day. But they overpay me to buggery goddammit, and Im realy only oficialy paid to do 5 of the above items over and above normal pilot dutys.
But if they just went and paid peanuts like every other shyster outfit I wouldnt consciencousley have to do any of these bloodey things would I?
[This message has been edited by Slasher (edited 13 January 2001).]
Funny isnt it. It causes me to:
1. Be loyal to the Company in realistic ways
2. Be willing to live in a craphole country and not complain to the Company about all the sh!t and lack of infrastructure I have to put up with trying to get Company things done
3. Be willing to go that extra mile when commonsense dictates
4. Sort out Crewings mess on the spot
5. Sort out the CPs mess on the spot
6. Sort out aircraft changes on the spot
7. Offer to work when everybody else cant be bothered
8. Do office crap like organise overflight clearances etc
9. Fly very eficiently, and consciousley operating as economicaly as humanley possible, safetey permiting
10. Ensure our pax are happy no matter how many Company feet I have to tread on to do it
11. Get on and efectively laiase with management types who are the biggest pr**ks born
12. Help out with the operational problems the same pr**ks find too tough to solve
13. Help to load bags in the 737 holds myself if we are running late and we are short of loaders
14. Assist our engineers in holding open engine cowls, holding open start valves etc if they are short of personel while doing maintanence on my aircraft (or other aircraft if they catch me in the crew room!)
15. Solve cabin crew rostering messes!
16. Be a general Flight Operations dogsbody when things turn to crap
17. Do Sim checking back of the clock
18. Be a backup Line trainer on my days off
19. Be a backup Line checker on my days off
20. Work on days off without complaint
21. Work up to 20 days straight on minimum rest, again without complaint (theres no CAP371 here, only a lose agreement between pilots and management.)
22. Give management full discretion as to when I take annual leave and how many days at each go.
Of course I dont do each and every one of these things every day. But they overpay me to buggery goddammit, and Im realy only oficialy paid to do 5 of the above items over and above normal pilot dutys.
But if they just went and paid peanuts like every other shyster outfit I wouldnt consciencousley have to do any of these bloodey things would I?
[This message has been edited by Slasher (edited 13 January 2001).]
Guest
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Not to offend you Guv, but where do you get all the time to write so much on this board? You should be working on that celticairways
I'm not even going to start about pilot-salaries. I'm wishing I was flying. 22 years old and a debt of $100.000!!! Let me dream of my future salary
I'm not even going to start about pilot-salaries. I'm wishing I was flying. 22 years old and a debt of $100.000!!! Let me dream of my future salary
Guest
Posts: n/a
The point is Guv, pay only enough to do the job and thats all you get. Pay a high atractive salary well over and above whats "fair" and you get more than you bargained for!
BTW Africa is only after I give up flying shiney jets and can afford to live on low pay. Im certainley willing to work hard for crap money when that work is meaningful, and achieves a sense of doing something REAL. Who gets that from dragging bums around in a modern airliner?
[This message has been edited by Slasher (edited 15 January 2001).]
BTW Africa is only after I give up flying shiney jets and can afford to live on low pay. Im certainley willing to work hard for crap money when that work is meaningful, and achieves a sense of doing something REAL. Who gets that from dragging bums around in a modern airliner?
[This message has been edited by Slasher (edited 15 January 2001).]